Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Ask your questions about Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship and Certificates of Loss of Nationality.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well. See Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part One
@Japan T
Streamlined costs no more or less than doing a quiet disclosure – I.e., you can spend a bunch of money and have tax professionals do it for you, or you can spend $0 and do-it-yourself.
I’m curious about what citizenship haven Barbara found, though I can understand if she doesn’t want to disclose.
How about a thread for people seeking strategies for getting a new citizenship? I would love to get one but all the info I’ve read indicated that citizenship is very expensive in these Caribbean havens, and investments required were pretty high. And usually a non-refundable fee of several hundred thousand.
I looked into getting jus sanguinis citizenship through my European ancestors, but the standard of proof the country required was too high, and my ancestors’ documents had too many inconsistencies. My stupid grandparents weren’t thinking about my future needs when they put their nicknames on their marriage certificates instead of their birth names, and misspelled their names on various documents. The consulate said they needed airtight proof, and I didn’t have it after years spent researching my grandparents’ documents.
I might be willing to buy an investment property if it was a good investment and priced fairly, but can’t afford a million dollar property, only something much cheaper.
So tired of telling people I’m from Canada because I’m ashamed of my country (for reasons way beyond just FATCA, FBAR and CBT).
@valentina
Lucky you! I’m also in Vancouver and still waiting for the invite! Submitted the docs on May 4… I even started fearing that I may have missed and/or accidentally deleted that email.
Congrats to you and hope it all goes smoothly.
@Red Cabbage, well this will give you a good starting point figure-wise.
https://corpocrat.com/2016/12/22/30-countries-for-buying-citizenship-through-investment/
$100,000 and up. But of course it’s also a question of which passport will allow you to visit the most countries easily if you plan to travel.
You could always look at going the residency route to gain naturalisation as well. It’ll take longer of course.
https://www.gov.uk/becoming-a-british-citizen
http://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/FAQs/EN/Themen/Migration/Staatsang/Erwerb_der_deutschen_Staatsbuergerschaft_durch_Eingbuergerung_en.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_nationality_law
I restarted filing after 10+ years in 2015. I filed 2012-2013-2014 together, and did restrospective FBARS for those years. I offered no explanation, owed no tax, and in fact got a tax credit. It cost me the services of a tax preparer I found online, and I fed him the data I wanted to feed him, no more, no less. It cost me about what I got back as a tax credit. After this year, I’ll be at 5 years of filing, and no news from the IRS. I believe that in simple tax situations, where one needs to file because of fears of FATCA for instance (my case) quiet filing, even going forward, is a viable option. It seems unlikely that they can expend time and money to randomly investigate someone who probably owes no tax, lives abroad, and has no US assets.
Thanks Medea, that’s very useful. I’m still interested in the Stateless idea — renounce in a country that is a signatory to the UN Statelessness convention — then get a UN passport — total cost, zero. The tricky part is first getting Permanent Residence in the country so that they’ll let you stay after you renounce. I have a feeling that’s not so easy to do.
Good Morning All,
I thought I would share a good news story. My brother renounced in Calgary and got his CLN in under two weeks. It was a little shorter than the 18 months I had to wait to get mine. So between the two of us we are averaging out at around 9 months.
Cheers,
Rocky
Thanks, Rocky, for the update on what the timing is for renunciation at the US Consulate in Calgary right now. Glad your brother’s experience improved the average time in your family! Good to hear from you.
calgary411,
I still get the impression that his was an outlier as compared to the others that are around. I am still hearing stories on here of others that are waiting quite a long time to get there CLN. Hopefully this would be an indication of something having improved in terms of timing for CLN’s being granted. It would be nice to think that they 2350 accomplishes something. But I am not holding my breath.
Cheers,
Rocky
Does anyone know how to contact Vancouver consulate to inquire about the CLN appointment? I have sent my docs for renunciation at the beginning of May, no word about my appointment… Tried calling, the automated system is very restrictive and there’s no option to get to a live person. I could send them a snail mail letter (prob. my last resort) but is there any other way to find out what’s the hold up?
@OhDear
if this helps, when I booked for Toronto I submitted my request in April and didnt get an appointment email until August (and appointment was for the following January so your delay so far sounds pretty typical.
hth
Give it 6-8. weeks. After that I would email the contact site CanadaCLNAppointments.state.gov. again and ask if they received your docs. The site is monitored.
Let us know if you don’t have any luck after that. There are other things you can try later on.
OK, so far I have found an email for the Vancouver consulate and inquired with them It has already been 8 weeks, that’s why I am worried.
I got a reply from the Vancouver consulate and yes, there was a mix-up with my submission. Apparently I was placed in the wrong line with a much longer waiting time but now I have been given a date for the appointment and it’s at the end of August! So, good news!
“Apparently I was placed in the wrong line with a much longer waiting time…”
This begs the question: how many “lines” are there and what sort of application gets you put in the longer one? Are the other “lines” for appointments for consular services other than renunciation, or are they for renunciations that are getting closer scrutiny for some reason? If the former, no problem; if the latter, that should cause considerable concern.
Congratulations to your brother, Rocky!
Another update on our family — my 18yo son (born in Canada but for whom I registered the birth abroad, sigh) had his appointment to renounce in Calgary the other week. If things in Vancouver are similar to what they were several months ago when I had my own Calgary appointment, his CLN should take no more than two weeks (it was mailed from Vancouver 10 days after my appointment). I’ll update here when it arrives. He spent a grand total of 30 minutes in the building/office, and said they didn’t say anything to him about “teams of lawyers at the State Department” reviewing his renunciation, as I was told twice by two different staffers (including the Vice Consul) at my appointment.
So our entire family is out and done, just in time for Canada Day (the kids and I are now, like my husband, Canadian only) and what for us will be a real Independence Day…
Congrats Rebecca, I hope he get’s his CLN soon. I wonder if a 18 year old has an easier time or isn’t as scrutinized as much because they may have never lived in the States and they are so young they likely have no assets of considerable worth. Where as an older person may have more assets to be considered, thus it may take more of a review because they want to see how much more money they can get out of you.
I don’t know for certain. Just me surmising a bit.
Cheers,
Rocky
@Rebecca, congratulations and nice timing, eh.
@krackerjack121, I doubt money has anything to do with it. The embassy/consulate/State Department have no idea of your monetary status and they can’t ask you about your US tax status either. All they can do is remind you that you might have outstanding US tax matters you need to deal with, but that’s it.
@Maya L
Well, they said that I was placed in a line for a different post in Canada. So I guess someone misread the requested Vancouver for some other consulate (beats me how one can make such a silly mistake). It would have been an unpleasant surprise if some months later I would receive an appointment at, say, Halifax consulate, or another place on the East Coast!
Our son received his CLN earlier this week, after his appointment in Calgary in late June. It’s printed on the reverse of his Consular Report of Birth Abroad, which was returned to him, that his CLN was approved 11 days after his June appointment. And he received the CLN 8 days later.
“I wonder if a 18 year old has an easier time or isn’t as scrutinized as much because they may have never lived in the States and they are so young they likely have no assets of considerable worth.”
I’m sure both of my kids (daughter went last year just before turning 19) had an easier time without ever having had U.S. passports and without any US ties/connections, including never having lived in the US, Whereas the vice consul kept coming up with “creative” suggestions for why I might not want to renounce — what if I ever change my mind and want to retire to someplace warm like Florida, or move back to the US, where I lived until my late 20s until moving to Canada to get married.
The financial part doesn’t come into play at this point with the State Dept, but does come in to play next year when Form 8854 has to be filed with the IRS; generally, the rule is that anyone renouncing between the ages of 18 and 18.5 (not a very big window), regardless of how much money they have (for example, a large trust inherited at age 18), will NOT be a covered expatriate. According to the IRS, an individual is not a covered expatriate if both of these conditions are true:
“(I) the individual’s relinquishment of United States citizenship occurs before such individual attains age 18 1/2, and
(II) the individual has been a resident of the United States (as so defined) for not more than 10 taxable years before the date of relinquishment”
All, has anyone used a credit card to pay the $2350 fee at the CLN appointment?
Yes, my credit card was accepted last September in Vancouver.
@fn0
Great, thanks! At least will get some miles with this ridiculous charge!
@OhDear
I was told to bring cash.
@OhDear
We were told that either was OK.
CC miles are a bonus but I suggest bringing cash just in case card does not work.