Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Ask your questions about Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship and Certificates of Loss of Nationality.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well. See Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part One
Yeah, I’ll bring cash just in case but will prefer to use the credit card.
In this wonderful month of August I will have my appointment at the US Consulate to renounce and hopefully obtain my CLN.
I’ve been browsing through the Consulate Directory and I agree with the advice that I need to have an answer to a question as to why I’ve renounced.
Background: I did not attach an answer to this question on paper so it will have to be done in person orally. I was born in Canada and spent the first 23 years of my life living in the United States and the last 20+ years living in Canada. All of my family is in the United States.
The best reason I have come up with for renouncing is that I have lived in Canada for the last 1/2 of my life and I consider this country home. I don’t want to owe allegiance to two countries and I have chosen Canada as the country that I want to maintain allegiance to.
I am in interested in what your opinions of this answer are? Is it adequate? Should I add something? I am wondering if they ask me “Why now to renounce? Why didn’t you renounce 10 or 15 years ago?”
Thanks!
@ Valentina,
They won’t necessarily ask you why. But you’re right it’s good to have an answer in mind in case they do. I know that one isn’t required to give a reason, but I figure the meeting goes more smoothly, if one is asked, to just says something – short and non-controversial, as the reason you wrote in your comment here is.
Re:
I think what you wrote in your comment is fine, no need to add anything, less said the better.
Re:
Something like that your sense/feeling of being a part of Canada and only Canada grew over time, while the US has no longer played a role in your life and you came to realise that it will not in your future.
Best wishes on your renunciation!
Congratulations on securing your upcoming appointment at a US Consulate, Valentina. Reason for your renunciation seems right on. If asked, why now?, you might say you want to simplify your life, the true answer given by many. Best of luck in your next steps and eventually having your CLN in hand.
@ Valentina
I’m certain your appointment will go well but still I wish you GOOD LUCK. Just keep your answers short and simple. If they ask about that “delay” just say something like you were busy settling into your chosen life in the land of your birth. The DOS would have no grounds to reject your renunciation and that CLN might come faster than you think. Turnaround at the Calgary consulate recently, for instance, has been very short.
This is what worked for my husband who relinquished immediately after his Canadian citizenship ceremony. (That was 3 years ago.)
“By becoming a Canadian citizen and taking an oath of allegiance to Canada it was my intent to relinquish my U.S. citizenship. I believe I can only give my allegiance to one country and that is Canada.”
@Valentina, if this is a straightforward renunciation then remember it’s your right under the US Constitution to renounce and you don’t have to give any reason whatsoever to be able to do so. They can ask, you don’t have to answer if you don’t want to. The renuncation cannot be refused because of it, only if the embassy/consulate/State Department believe you are being coerced or are mentally incompetent to understand what you’re doing.
Thanks everyone for your comments and wishes! I do agree that I want to “simplify” my life. That is the truth even if it doesn’t cut to the heart of the matter.
@Pacifica777 – I am going to use your “sense/feeling of being a part of Canada” growing over time. I could almost cut/paste this line but of course I will take the spirit and translate it into my own language! 🙂
After I go to the consulate I will give a full report back here! In fact given how my memory is like a sieve these days I will take notes immediately after the session so I don’t forget any key important points!
Wish me luck everyone! The day is near!
@Valentina,
Been reading about your upcoming renunciation.Good luck, you will be fine.
When I renounced, the vice-consul actually opined that he thought the reason renunciations were happening was because we “felt more Canadian” on account of having lived here so long.” That’s a pretty safe answer!
Hello,
Born in the states from a US father and a Swiss mother, but living n France since age 1, I was naturalized a French citizen in May 1988 (I was 18 1/2).
I am currently proceeding with a renunciation process : I had thought about using my french naturalization as relinquishing act, but as (a) my parents had then asked the US consulate so that I retain US citizenship in spite of my naturalization (which was accepted – at the time, I didn’t dare to displease my father by saying no) and (b) I renewed my passports once afterwards, in 1995 (but not since), I deem it would not be accepted.
Having never filed in my life (never having considered myself a US citizen, and my father always had wrongly assumed I wouldn’t have to pay any US taxes being divorced with three french kids and a mortgage…), I first had to obtain SS number, which was easy (received two months after application), and filed a few days ago, under offshore foreign streamlined procedure, FBAR for 6 years and IRS returns for 5 years together for a $1,000 payment for one year where exchange rates EUR/USD were very unfavorable. I also sent a letter to US embassy in Paris (in french) requesting an appointment in order to renounce formally to US citizenship (I have already printed out the files).
I did not resort to any advisor or tax preparer and do not intend to do so, as I am currently short on cash and will remain so in the near future. But I do read instructions, blogs etc…
I do feel uneasy and a bit stressed about the whole process. I already spent hours, days, preparing the data to file.
Since I’ve started it, the funny thing is, my french accent when speaking english is so much stronger than it used to!
@Juliette, sounds as if you’re on the last stretch. Getting a renunciation should be easy since it’s your right under the US Constitution to renounce if you want to. You’ll just need to file a final return next year and the 8854 form to exit the US tax system cleanly and you’ll be done. Hang in there, you’re nearly finished.
Everyone here can sympathise with your stress level going up and up and if you need to vent go ahead. We’ll listen and support you, try to cheer you up and help along the way if we can. We’ve all been there.
Juliete Bravo. Ces’t merveilleux que vous avez faites tôut ça vous même. C’est une leçon pour nous autres. S.VP. excusez mon Francais que j’ai appris il y a 50 ans a l’ecole secondaire. J’espère que ça na pas côut trôp. Bonne chance .
Many Thanks to all of you!
reading this blog, articles and numerous comments and experiences, as well as others like hodgenlaw was great help to try and figure things out! I’ll keep you posted!
Cheers
I had forgotten all about the currency exchange problems which was cause for great distress for many pensioners abroad. Even for the rest, paying taxes in dollars when you used another currency was expensive simply due to the fluctuations.
I relinquished more that 4 years ago, and not not visited the USA in over 12 years.
I can’t seen to locate any information on the following, My non USA passport clearly identifies my birthplace as USA. I deal in investments that often require the submission of a passport as part of the KYC/AML nonsense instituted by the US to register with exchanges worldwide. So far, it has not caused an issue of putting a US person ‘stink’ on any of my applications and they have been approved. This KYC requirement has pretty much spread worldwide in the name of terror financing prevention but more like closing all loopholes to tax avoidance.
Does anyone know if there is some kind of provision in the universal passport information that all passports have encoded that can be added to show that a person is not a US Person even though born there? I would really hate to get caught up in trying to clear up such a question of US Birth by attempting to use my CLN to do so with people who have no idea of such things.
As all of this ownership of people (much like slave property) by their country of citizenship goes forward I can forsee this becoming yet another issue for expats who renounced that must present a non US passport for any of a number of reasons.
If your passport place of birth states or suggests the USA, it would be good if you could have non-US person status in the passport data, but it seems extremely unlikely that any passport information would identify which countries you are not a citizen of.
The “place of birth” information shown on a passport varies according to the issuing country and circumstances. The information may be town and country, country-only, or town-only. Town-only can sometimes result to incorrect assumptions about country. For some countries place of birth may not be the actual place of birth, but may be the place where the birth is registered, of the place of origin.
It may not be helpful, and I don’t know if other countries allow it, but a Canadian can apply for a passport with no place of birth shown on it (form PPTC 077). The place of birth must be provided with the application but does not appear in the travel document. The warning is given that omitting place of birth may create difficulties, e.g. problems getting a visa, delays at border crossings, refusal of entry as some countries need place of birth information, and advises checking requirements with the consulate or embassy of the country to be visited. If Customs and Immigration want to know where you were born, you are better off having the answer on your passport than having them ask you.
It would be interesting to hear the experiences of people who have a passport without place of birth.
This follows up on the comments posted in May about dual-status returns for people who renounce, and the difficulties caused when the IRS sends 1040NR returns and 1040 statements in different directions for processing, resulting in demands for “missing” information and signatures.
In June, some time after after we had responded to two IRS letters by sending in more of the same stuff, I could not find out from the IRS by phone what was happening, so left it alone for a while. In August instead of trying to phone again I decided to just request a transcript online; this arrived, proving that the return has passed through the constipated alimentary canal of the IRS. It shows zeros-almost-everywhere information per the 1040NR for the period after renunciation and nothing from the 1040 statement. The 8854s sent in March (one with the return, one to Philadelphia) have not raised any questions, so I am happy and finally feel free.
@fn0
Congratulations on getting your final paperwork done and confirming as such! I remember when you posted here back in May of the mix-up and I know how happy you must be. It’s always nice to hear of a happy ending. Go forward now and enjoy your freedom!
@Juliette
Unfortunately, stress is pack and parcel of the whole process for most of us. The main thing is that you’re not letting it deter you from moving forward — we’re all rooting for you, so hang in there!
@fn0
Congrats on getting confirmation your paperwork has been processed!
Big day – my CLN appointment is in 2.5 hours. Wish me luck!
@OhDear
Good luck!
Best wishes, OhDear! I recall from previous comments that you’re in Canada — and renunciation appointments have been going pretty routinely here in Canada lately (mainly just signing and pushing papers back and forth when you meet with the consul). So I expect it will go very smoothly (of course stand up for yourself if necessary, but they seem to go pretty routine and quick (the face time, that is — people often end up having spent much more time in the waiting area than with the consul) here these days. Hope you have a good experience. Looking forward to hearing from you later today. Bonne chance!
Based on my own and other reported experiences in Canada I am sure it will be pretty straightforward . Good Luck. Let us know how it went.
Thank you all for good wishes. Smooth sailing through my appointment in Vancouver. I spent about 1.5 hours at the consulate, mostly waiting. The case worker made me verify the information on the paperwork, and took the payment (credit card, yay, Airmiles!). Then the consul made me sign the 4081 form, and then I took and signed the oath. When asked why I was renouncing, I launched into a semi-rehearsed speech interrupted with “You don’t feel American” – a statement, hardly a question – which I happily confirmed and that was it. I think he was tired/cranky/didn’t care and only wanted to hear this phrase to type into whatever document was open on his computer. Anyway, very perfunctory and impersonal, I was almost offended, hahaha.
Celebrated self-liberation with a nice solo lunch with a view and went home. I don’t feel any different, hope to feel ecstatic when the final tax paperwork is done.
Oh, they said it would take about a month to receive the CLN certificate and that my loss of citizenship date is today.
Congratulations!