How to Renounce/Relinquish
Consulate Report Directory (Brockers Describe their Consulate Meetings) and CLN Delivery Time Chart
Department of State Forms, Procedure Manuals, and Contact Info
Expatriation Date, Form 8854 & Certificate of Loss of Nationality
Important if Relinquishing Act Prior to June 4, 2004
Very important for pre-2004 relinqishers to read, the posts/threads at this link also contain some useful information for those who relinquished after June 4, 2004, or are planning to do so.
Interactions between Department of State and IRS regarding Renunciation/Relinquishment
You can renounce (or apply for a relinquishment-based CLN) if you have not filed taxes. Here’s some general information, with source links, relating to that and the relation between DoS and IRS in the context of renunciation/relinquishment.
IRS Ruling on Relinquishment and Retroactivity, 92-109
Relinquishment and Renunciation Data
The actual “relinquishment and renunciation data” was integrated into the Appendix of the Consulate Report Directory in 2013 (tracking chart of people’s wait times from booking to consulate appointment to receipt of CLN) and is continually updated there. The thread itself , however, has remained open and popular.
Relinquishment by Persons-Born-Dual or Who Naturalised in a Foreign Country as a Minor
Although a person who is already a citizen obviously can’t relinquish by naturalisation, any adult can relinquish by taking employment with a foreign government (or its subdivisions) or by joining the military.
Relinquishment by Naturalisation (INA, s. 349(a)(1)) by Person Born in US to Canadian parents: Cheryl’s Story. Relinquishing act (naturalisation) was her registering her birth abroad with the Canadian government in 1977 when she was an adult.
Cheryl’s detailed story contains information of particular interest to Canadians and general information which may also be useful to those of other countries and those with slightly different fact sets as well.
Reports by Persons who Relinquished US Citizenship Upon Taking Government Employment, Immigration and Nationality Act, s. 349(a)(4)(A)
Self-Documented Relinquishment
The relinquishing act itself causes the citizenship loss. A CLN provides proof of it, but it’s not the only way to prove it.
Estate Matters for Former US Citizens
How the 877A Exit Tax May Apply to your Canadian Assets
This is a series of nine posts on different aspects of the exit tax. Much of it is relevant to persons in all countries.
Almost No US Citizenship Renunciation Appointments Left During 2016 in Dublin
The title highlights Dublin, but this post contains a chart of links to consulate websites’ and their info re renunciation appointments around the world, as well as ongoing discussion of the topic.
Duchesse. You actually got a reply from a real person! Do you have any thoughts on how we should proceed? (No response of any kind since Sept.
@ DoD
Real person? Yes, it happens. My husband had a few exchanges with one at the Calgary consulate. It was better when he could address his e-mails to her … instead of “Dear ACS”. All I can suggest is do another “Dear ACS” e-mail indicating when you sent back the forms and ask them if it’s possible to assign you an appointment date now. You’ll want to grit your teeth while typing but it’s better to force a grin so the wording comes out in a gently persuasive tone. My husband actually met the consulate supervisor he exchanged e-mails with when he went for his renunciation appointment. She was quite nice. She even e-mailed immediately afterwards and then followed up by snail-mail an interim travel letter to use if he needed to go to the USA before the CLN arrived. (His was a relinquishment with no charge so therefore no receipt.)
can some one advise me how to get rid of us taint born dual us Canadian
in Ontario what do I do cant afford a lawyer or a accountant… id have to do all the work my self
I make min wage…
I tried to keep up filings have to catch up last year and this years ..
I cant deal with this anymore the stress is killing me went from healthy to being on a wack of meds from the last few year of this..
so please somone walk we through the steps.. where do I start and if somone could kinda of walk me through the steps … thanks
Welcome, @ Joe22!
Step 1 — Try to relax. It won’t be as bad as you imagine.
Step 2 — You’ll have to have 2,350 USD available. There’s no way to avoid the hefty fee the USA puts on your freedom.
Others will step in to help you with the rest. I’m not the best source for the renunciation process because I’m not a US citizen (and never have been). My husband relinquished several years ago but he’s put it behind him and doesn’t dwell on the past.
Anyway, you’ve found the right place. Brockers are empathetic, well-informed and have proven to be very helpful to others in your position, time after time.
@Joe22
Is there a particular reason why you need to renounce? There are a great many US-born dual citizens in Canada like myself who do absolutely nothing about US tax compliance, haven’t bothered to renounce, and are just fine. I sleep quite well and am perfectly healthy despite never having filed a 1040 or FBAR!
If you truly make minimum wages and have no complex investments, you will owe zero to the US. In which case there’s really no point filing a return, because there’s no risk of penalty if you don’t.
What I would do is simply forget about this. Do not file US returns, don’t worry about needing to renounce (which is very simple to do but not cheap – a fee of US$2350 plus travel to a consulate if you don’t live in a major city) and never mention US birthplace or citizenship to a bank or financial institution. That’s it, really. Nothing much worth worrying about unless you have complex cross-border financial affairs.
@ Joe22
Certainly give some consideration to what Nononymous wrote but take a look at this site’s consulate reports (url below) too. You are in the US tax system (probably filing zero owing 1040s), so aside from that outrageous fee, exiting the system shouldn’t be too difficult for you … depending on how simple you have kept your finances. Think it over and then ask as specific as possible questions which hopefully somebody here will answer for you.
http://catseyesap.com/crd/Consulate%20Report%20Directory%202018.01.pdf
@Joe22
If you have decided this is something that you still wish to do after the above considerations.and can spare the $2350, then you should contact the nearest US consulate by email and ask for an appointment to renounce.
If you can travel then you can also choose to go to the one who will give you the first appointment.
It seems like your tax filing is almost up to date and simple to complete, so first get your appointment and go from there.
https://ca.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/loss-of-nationality/
Rereading Joe’s original post, its unclear to me whether he was even born in the US. If he’s Canadian born, I’d go with Nononymous’ advice and just ignore the whole business. As a minimum wage earner, the $2350 is money he desperately needs for basic essentials, he owes no US tax, and he’s of absolutely no interest to the IRS. Even if he’s filed a few times, suddenly and permanently stopping would raise no red flags at IRS headquarters.
Canadian birthplace=no potential for banking issues. All of the Canadian born kids of my US expat peers have ignored this their entire lives and if you mention US taxes to them they just shake their heads and laugh at the mere suggestion they should be filing US tax returns or bothering to renounce. So its an older generation thing; its certainly not a concern for the younger set!
The only situation I can think of where Joe might want to keep up with US filings would be if he wanted to go to the US and exercise his “US-ness” but if that were the case he wouldn’t be here asking about renouncing.
@ maz57
I think Joe22 will have to clarify where he was born, to start. If it was Canada I’d have to agree he could just fade away from filing US 1040s and not officially give up his USC status. He’ll have no bank issues here. However, one has to wonder what would have motivated him to file with the IRS if he wasn’t born in the USA. Maybe he crossed paths with a compliance condor or read a scary article somewhere or an American parent told him he had to do it … who knows?
Honestly, under current conditions even a US-born dual citizen in Canada doesn’t need to renounce, unless they have significant wealth and complicated cross-border financial affairs.
FATCA you ignore by not acknowledging US citizenship, if asked by a bank. Tax and FBAR obligations you ignore because there’s no real-world penalty for non-compliance.
HI. Finally getting back to doing the paperwork with my almost 19 year old offspring.
I would be very appreciative if anyone could help me with the following questions:
- Are signatures required on the fillable forms DS-4081 and DS-4080 when you send them back to ask for an appointment (or signatures wait until the actual appointment)?
- Once they are filled out, assuming signatures are not needed, do you send them back as fillable PDFs or can you create printed/scanned (static) scans?
- I know some people had filed for Vancouver renunciation a couple of months ago. Has anyone heard back with an appointment and how long did it take to hear? Did they email you or call (email, I assume)?
You guys are great. I am so thankful I found your board.
@ renounce_newbie,
You’ll sign the 4081 and 4080 when you’re at the consulate, as the officer will sign them also, attesting that you swore/affirmed and signed in their presence.
I don’t know for sure about sending the forms back as a PDF or static scan as I did mine a few years ago and they didn’t have you send them in advance then. But check the instructions e-mail the booking system sent you. I have one of these booking e-mails from March this year and it says at point (2) “All forms beginning with ‘DS’ must be completed online as a fillable PDF.” I don’t know if that’s changed since March.
I don’t know how long Vancouver is taking to reply but hopefully someone who dealt with Vancouver recently will see your comment and let you know how long it took to hear back from them.
The completed (filled) pdf file is returned as an email attachment. Normally they reply by email. This should be in less than amonth. ((Ours got lost in email limbo for 3 months. After I wrote to D.C. with a copy to Vancouver, I got a phone call. ))
Hello,
This website has been a great source of information and moral support as I slowly move along the path towards renunciation. Thank you!
I am preparing to email scanned documents (questionnaire, forms 4080 and 4081, marriage license, CA and US passports) to Canada CLNAppointments@state.gov. Given all the identifying information in these documents, I am very concerned about security. I will be emailing CLN and contacting the embassy in Ottawa, but wondered if anyone here has already made these inquiries and has any suggestions to offer re: more securely forwarding this information.
Thanks,
Kathryn
I recently went to a seminar in Calgary by a law firm on how to renounce US citizenship. Going through them would be very expensive. I am wondering if I should renounce with the assistance of a lawyer or try to do it on my own? I have been tax compliant for the last 6 yrs in preparation for this. I am looking on this site and am feeling very overwhelmed.
There’s no need to feel alarmed. It’s generally very easy to renounce US citizenship without any need for legal assistance.
1. Look on the website of your nearest US consulate/ embassy for instructions. It will probably be listed under “Citizenship Services” and then “Renunciation.”
2. Gather the forms and documentation as instructed, and email the consulate to request an appointment to renounce.
3. Attend the appointment and pay the (outrageous) fee; go through the interview and swear the oath of renunciation. That’s it. Once you’ve sworn the oath, you’ll no longer be a US citizen.
I found the consular staff helpful and amiable. No worries.
Eventually, you’ll receive the CLN.
See this link:
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/consulate2/
for reports of renouncing experiences at various consulates.
@YYC75
Renunciation is easy, there is no need for a lawyer. You have been compliant for 6 yrs, so I assume you plan to exit filing the required forms. Take a look at form 8854 which is required to exit the Tax system. You will be assessed your net worth on the day before renunciation, so if it looks like you will be ‘covered’ because of your net worth, you should look for ways
to reduce your net worth through division of assets with spouse or gifting to a family member before you renounce.
Some decide to renounce and file nothing further, but that depends on whether you have any assets in the US or want access to US markets or business.
You can read the renunciation guide on Brock and ask more specific questions later
http://www.renunciationguide.com/
PS
YYC75
Renunciation does not depend on your tax compliance . You will not be asked any tax related questions at your renunciation but if you are planning to file and you think you may be ‘covered’ you should consider the tax issues before the day of renunciation.
@YYC75
Click on menu at top of renunciation guide
http://www.renunciationguide.com/
The numbers may be out of date but the guide is quite current.