How to Renounce/Relinquish

146 thoughts on “How to Renounce/Relinquish”

1. No news. Something may happen in July. It’s a slow process at the best of times.

   On a positive note, rumblings from the US about another $1200 stimulus cheque at some point, which would mean the full cost of renunciation being inadvertently subsidized.

2. That would be a sweet deal for sure!

3. As discounts go, 50 percent already isn’t bad, but 100 percent would be sweeter. (Actually 102 percent because you’d have $50 left over.)

4. So today of all days, I decided it’s time to pull the trigger and send off the renunciation paperwork.

   While I’m as pleased as most of the rest of humanity to see the last of Donald J. Trump, I also suspect that a Biden win might trigger a minor rush for the exits (for inheritance tax rather than political reasons) and I don’t want to find myself further back in an already very long and slow-moving queue. This might not happen before 2022.

   I’m not at all concerned that the IRS is going to become more effective in future, despite that amusing audit report – there’s simply no ROI in chasing after non-residents without US assets. I still firmly believe that an ordinary Canadian in my situation does not need to bother renouncing.

   However, in my case a few personal factors tipped the scales: (1) there’s a chance we’ll make a semi-permanent move to Europe in a few years and I don’t want any problems due to my US birthplace; (2) my elderly parents can’t quite wrap their heads around the fact that the IRS won’t somehow eat up my inheritance, and it would be a kindness to make them less nervous; (3) the odds of another stimulus benefit just went up, which means the renunciation fee will be fully covered (this is symbolically rather than materially important to me).

   I will of course not be filing any US tax returns, or Form 8854.

   I do have one puzzling observation from the relatively simple process of applying for an appointment. The embassy questionnaire that you fill out asks for a Social Security Number. I left this blank since it is none of their business – it’s neither required for renunciation, nor transmitted to the IRS. I tried to give as little other information as possible – e.g. only the city and state, not the street address, for last residence in the US. We’ll see if they notice or care.

5. @RH

   Good luck .Elvis will, in due course , leave the building. Hopefully, without doing too much further damage to the structure.

6. Good idea to get in line asap Looks like there won’t be any appointments for months to come

7. The paperwork must have changed. I was never asked for my SS number when I renounced in London back in October 2018.

   I too renounced without filing any US tax paperwork. Haven’t heard a thing.

8. Just so it’s clear, there is no change to the DS4080 form – no request for Social Security Number there. So I expect it’s still not transmitted to the IRS.

   The form I’m referring to is the questionnaire you submit when requesting an appointment in Canada. Why they include SSN I have no idea. If asked, I “lost” it, decades ago.

9. Or you just remember it incorrectly, oops! All those weird numbers, hard to keep them straight.

   Strangely enough, I know my SS number by heart, although I haven’t used it in decades.

10. I’d better find it again if I want the US government to pay for its own renunciation fee. Otherwise, I have no clue.

11. Are embassies/consulates in Canada taking appointments again? No changes in London

12. Not as yet but the generic reply e-mail said that by sending in the request, you can secure your spot in the queue. I thought the election result might trigger a spike so I wanted to get out in front of it. That being said, I’d be very surprised if I could renounce before 2022.

13. Hi folks,

    I’m a Canadian citizen/resident and US citizen by birth (left when I was a baby and have no ties/assets there). I have an SSN and a US passport. I am not tax compliant and have been thinking about renouncing my American citizenship lately for peace-of-mind as I plan to become self-employed in the near future (and maybe start a company) and I also recently realized that I had given my US citizenship information to the bank that holds the majority of my investments.

    Was looking for opinions on my situation and also wanted to confirm if the renunciation situation is still the same in Canada since the last update?

14. Many of us would encourage you to renounce your citizenship ASAP. It will probably take at least a year to get an appointment.
    No need whatsoever to fileany tax information. None

    Renouncing is not dependent on you tax status. You do not need to become compliant before or after renouncing unless there is a compelling reason to do so.

    Th IRS net doesn’t catch minnows unless they foolishly leap into the net.

15. p.s. For extra peace of mind, you could move your investments to a different bank although this is almost certainly unnecessary.

16. Agree with all of the above. Don’t expect renunciation to happen quickly, so get in the queue now if you’re serious about it.

    If you’re concerned by potential FATCA reporting – which you don’t necessarily need to be if you’re going to renounce in the not-too-distant future – then switch banks and keep your US citizenship to yourself. Use a drivers’ license as ID, without birthplace. The screening is very minimal; recently for me it was a checkbox asking “Are you resident of another country for tax purposes?” with no verbal follow-up. They don’t seem too concerned. (If your investments are in tax-deferred accounts like RRSP or TFSA those aren’t subject to reporting anyway, so no worries.)

17. Screening is minimal compared to some countries, but it’s not non-existent. A few people have reported to Brock needing to show proof of non-citizenship. It’s only been a few, but be prepared. People who read Brock undoubtedly will be prepared, but undoubtedly a lot of people are caught by surprise. So, IMO, we can’t be complacent about the big picture either.

    I have a CLN but prefer to use a Canadian birthplace as a matter of principle. I was actually asked place of birth face-to-face when opening a new account at my long-time FI. But before I could answer, the account officer caught himself, “Oh, yeah, you’re from Vancouver.” We’d chatted before and he recalled from previous convos that I’d come here from Vancouver – so, he apparently assumed I was born there. Smile and nod.

    I thought it was kinda amusing that the bank officer made his assumption based on previous everyday chit-chat, since the Yanks consider my local FI (a 5 minute walk from home) to be my “offshore” bank — at least they did until I clarified with DoS that they couldn’t retroactively impose their alleged citizenship on me. It wouldn’t be amusing, though, if a person, unaware of FATCA, blurts out a US birthplace.

    So, I suggest to Canadians with US citizenship, real or alleged: be prepared for the FATCA question/s; make sure any friends/acquaintance with US indicia are aware of FATCA; and support efforts to eradicate it.

18. Hi,

    Anyone hear of renunciation appointments happening again? I’ve been in queue since March 7, 2020 and I haven’t heard from them since.

    Thanks,

19. They have started again at least in montreal and vancouver.

20. Are US consulates like in Belgium still accepting DS4079 forms? The automated system only states to upload 4080, 4081 and 4083. However the person in question probably relinquished in 1978. Can one still insist on a personal appointment and filing a 4079?

21. @ Thomas,

    I see that the Brussels Embassy’s Citizens Services page lists expatriation procedure under “Renunciation,” with no mention of relinquishment (except where they quote the title of form 4081, “Statement of Understanding Concerning the Consequences and Ramifications of Renunciation or Relinquishment”). Probably an oversight on the website because relinquishments are not common there.

    Personally, I’d send in the 4079, mentioning in my cover e-mail that I’m applying for a CLN for my 1978 relinquishment. Or alternatively, I’d e-mail them that I’d like to apply for such and wait for their reply instructions.

    7 FAM 1227 Prepare Certificate of Loss of Nationality for Relinquishment Cases.

    a. If you have reason to believe that the individual has committed an expatriating act voluntarily with the intention of relinquishing U.S. nationality, prepare a Form DS-4083, Certificate of Loss of Nationality of the United States (CLN). Prepare also the following forms and documents . . .
    (1) The consular officer opinion, which should also cite the evidence of the individual’s U.S. citizenship and whether the person possesses another nationality; and
    (2) Form DS-4083, Certificate of Loss of Nationality of the United States;
    (3) Form DS-4079, Questionnaire: Information for Determining Possible Loss of U.S. Citizenship;
    (4) Form DS-4081, Statement of Understanding Concerning the Consequences and Ramifications of Relinquishment or Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship; . . .

    
    7 FAM 1224.5 Interview.

    After you receive the questionnaire and any additional documents, it may be necessary to contact the person to discuss next steps and clarify any issues that arise in reviewing the responses to Form DS-4079 . . . . Consular officers can be flexible in determining whether this should include an in person, telephone or e-mail contact, or to request additional documentation. . . .

    If the facts are straightforward (the person’s behaviour is consistent with having abandoned US citizen on the date of the relinquishing act), the embassy official usually doesn’t have much, or anything, to ask at the appointment, so the appointment itself goes pretty quickly. You can read about people’s appointments in the Consulate Report Directory.