How to Renounce/Relinquish
Consulate Report Directory (Brockers Describe their Consulate Meetings) and CLN Delivery Time Chart
Department of State Forms, Procedure Manuals, and Contact Info
Expatriation Date, Form 8854 & Certificate of Loss of Nationality
Important if Relinquishing Act Prior to June 4, 2004
Very important for pre-2004 relinqishers to read, the posts/threads at this link also contain some useful information for those who relinquished after June 4, 2004, or are planning to do so.
Interactions between Department of State and IRS regarding Renunciation/Relinquishment
You can renounce (or apply for a relinquishment-based CLN) if you have not filed taxes. Here’s some general information, with source links, relating to that and the relation between DoS and IRS in the context of renunciation/relinquishment.
IRS Ruling on Relinquishment and Retroactivity, 92-109
Relinquishment and Renunciation Data
The actual “relinquishment and renunciation data” was integrated into the Appendix of the Consulate Report Directory in 2013 (tracking chart of people’s wait times from booking to consulate appointment to receipt of CLN) and is continually updated there. The thread itself , however, has remained open and popular.
Relinquishment by Persons-Born-Dual or Who Naturalised in a Foreign Country as a Minor
Although a person who is already a citizen obviously can’t relinquish by naturalisation, any adult can relinquish by taking employment with a foreign government (or its subdivisions) or by joining the military.
Relinquishment by Naturalisation (INA, s. 349(a)(1)) by Person Born in US to Canadian parents: Cheryl’s Story. Relinquishing act (naturalisation) was her registering her birth abroad with the Canadian government in 1977 when she was an adult.
Cheryl’s detailed story contains information of particular interest to Canadians and general information which may also be useful to those of other countries and those with slightly different fact sets as well.
Reports by Persons who Relinquished US Citizenship Upon Taking Government Employment, Immigration and Nationality Act, s. 349(a)(4)(A)
Self-Documented Relinquishment
The relinquishing act itself causes the citizenship loss. A CLN provides proof of it, but it’s not the only way to prove it.
Estate Matters for Former US Citizens
How the 877A Exit Tax May Apply to your Canadian Assets
This is a series of nine posts on different aspects of the exit tax. Much of it is relevant to persons in all countries.
Almost No US Citizenship Renunciation Appointments Left During 2016 in Dublin
The title highlights Dublin, but this post contains a chart of links to consulate websites’ and their info re renunciation appointments around the world, as well as ongoing discussion of the topic.
@Maz 57
Thats pretty much my understanding. If FShower has never actively applied for US citizenship, then as a child born outside the US to pre Naturalized parents then she is not a citizen. She would have had to apply and fit the criteria . She would need to have and to show a Naturalization certificate to renounce as I did, unless of course she was US born.
I don’t have US birthplace. I was issued US passport before.
So you are a US citizen, but as mentioned previously, just ignore it if you have another passport showing a non-US birthplace.
@Ron
Thank you for the reply.
I still hope to know if it’s possible for me to renounce under the circumstance (not sure what to put on DS4080), just in case I decided to do so.
Why would it not be possible? If you are a citizen, you are allowed to renounce. Period. If you have a US passport, even expired, that demonstrates that you are a US citizen. You were probablynaturalized at the same time as your parents, but if you don’t know the details because you don’t have the original paperwork, you can probably have that looked that up or just guess on the DS 4080.
If they don’t recognize you as being a US citizen and don’t allow you to renounce, that’s even better, because you just saved $2350! It won’t matter anyway because you don’t have a US birthplace. The implication here being that you don’t really need to bother renouncing – just ignore the fact that you were once turned into a US citizen – unless there is some complex financial reason to do so, involving US assets.
Also, don’t forget to file a 2019 tax return to get your free $1200 “stimulus check” from the US government! Suddenly there’s a good argument for compliance.
@flowershower
I guess your parents must have registered you as a child. If renouncing is something you chose to do then you could email the Embassy and ask for their help in locating your Naturalization cert/ number. I naturalized as an adult back in the late 80’s but I had to produce my certificate as they could not find mine! I guess this was in the days of paper filing.
Unless you have a specific financial reason for renouncing it might be better to forget you were ever a US citizen. Change your bank if you have to.
@FS
I am still a little confused, were your parents already naturalized US citizens when they gave birth to you? In that case you did not Naturalize, you were a citizen at Birth, wherever you were born, all they had to do was register you.
This situation has really got me scratching my head. The bottom line though, is that possessing a US passport proves flowershower is definitely a US citizen, regardless of how that happened. My question is what problem is flowershower trying to solve by renouncing US citizenship? If there are no problems, why bother? Having a non-US birthplace is the one thing money can’t buy and one’s ticket to financial freedom.
As for how to fill out DS-4080, you have to keep in mind that this is a government form invented by a government bureaucrat that can’t possibly cover all situations encountered in real life. For instance, the form asks for the former US address of the applicant and we know that many accidentals that have renounced have never even set foot in the US, let alone had a US address. If I were filling out the form I’d write “unknown”, “n/a”, “other” or simply draw an X through the non-applicable fields. (Disclaimer: Personally I hate filling out forms and have always felt free to modify, skip sections, or deface them to suit my own purposes.)
My advice is the same as Heidi’s and RH’s above: forget about filling out DS-4080, forget about renouncing. and forget about US citizenship. If you are not “on the radar” right now, theoretically renouncing will put you on the radar because the State Department notifies the IRS when someone renounces. Save the $2350 and let sleeping dogs lie.
One consideration is if FS wants/ needs to visit the US in future. If FS lives in one of the ESTA countries she will have to answer on US state dept forms if she has ever had any other citizenships or if in a visa country there will be an interview and same questions will be asked. Its one thing lying to a bank another to lie to the US gov especially if you have family there you want to visit. I think in Canada is a little easier to visit the US?
Canadians need neither visa nor ESTA waiver, they just Can simply walk up to the border. The authorities don’t pay much attention to US birthplace on Canadian passports. (I was busted for it precisely once, and continued using the Canadian passport afterwards, without difficulty.)