In the comments to our post about launching a class action lawsuit against TD Bank, we learned that a constitutional lawyer Joe Arvay does not believe it is time to launch a lawsuit, but in his opinion it would be more propitious to wait for an IGA between Canada and the United States. Another lawyer says that it would not be good to launch a conspiracy lawsuit based upon “intent” alone, as Gwen reports:
I just spoke to my friend who is a lawyer and he said even with their stated intent to comply with FATCA in the absence of an IGA, no case can be brought until they actually do implement the policy. Intent is not a crime in the eyes of the law except in the case of criminal intent such as murder. So, as much as I want to slam them with a lawsuit, I think we do have to wait until they implement and then get an injunction to stop them from continuing and then sue them for violation of our charter rights. So damn frustrating!
[I]ntent is a mental process. Suppose I intend to harm someone, but I do nothing to fulfill my intent. The law is not broken. But conspiracy is more than that. If I hire a hitman to kill that person, I’ve committed conspiracy to commit murder. The banks have hired FATCA officers with the sole purpose of implementing a procedure whereby they can systematically deprive Canadians of their rights. This is far beyond intent. This is spending money to pay the salaries of the hitmen, the Delores Umbridges.
Clearly, there are grounds for launching a conspiracy case already. This would no frivolous lawsuit. We have people whom the IRS has so frightened that they have lined up as sheep for the slaughter–some by paying tens of thousands to the bad shepherds, the cross-border lawyers and accounts, some through paying taxes and fines to the IRS (such as paying huge capital gains taxes on the sale of their Canadian homes), and some have become whole burnt offerings on the altar of OVDP. All of this is happening because the banks have been conspiring to take away the privacy of Canadians and are actively implementing systems whereby they can send private banking information to a foreign and hostile government (i.e., the IRS).
Folks, I am behind launching a class action suit. But if its going to happen, in my view it really has to have the support of those of you who are still so-called “US persons” or who are responsible for US person dependents. I have only a flimsy reason to put add my name to a class action lawsuit–I possess a get out of jail free card (CLN). I am here to write posts and pass on messages from the concerned Canadian who first suggested launching a conspiracy lawsuit. But we need each of you to take the initiative of contacting lawyers around the country who might be willing to launch this lawsuit–either because they have strong sense of the injustice of it all, because they themselves are “concerned clients” of the FATCA, or because they want the fame and glory of having as many as one million clients.
My contact has also responded in the comment stream (ChearsBigEars), including these lines:
I think the time to act is now. I disagree that any particular person needs to have his rights violated.. All of our rights and protections under the Charter are now being violated due to a conspiracy among all the banks to violate our rights and security and disrupt our lives. “Intend” is an interesting word. Intent is a hinge pin in verdicts. It is 100% the intent of our banks to violate the Charter. That in itself is a crime and does damage to our sense of security under the charter of which we are also entitled. Read this carefully. Either the banks are engaging in HATE CRIMES by advocating singling out Americans with Canadian citizenship or they are ignoring that we “are all equal before and under the law and have the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.”
Sorry if this is too simplified for some to understand but advocating hate and discrimination IS a violation of our rights as a minority in Canada. I posit that if there are some lawyers versed in the constitution that can’t understand simple English (French) then they need to do some soul searching and ask themselves why they are even practicing “constitutional law” in the first place and what kind of love they have for this country that allows them to even practice and make a living……OR they need to go back to law school.
ChearsBigEars has also asked me to post the following lines:
One other angle to our strategy is to try to destroy publicly the illusion that the banks are truly Canadian anymore. If they want to destroy us then we should go after one of them and relentlessly try to destroy their hard work trying to bullshit the population into believing they are “friendly” or comfortable and we should do this till the day we die. They spend hundreds of millions on public image. Let’s destroy that as best we can as retribution if they sign and even if they manage to twist the arm of the govt to sign an IGA. This is precisely why I suggest that one highly offensive bank be singled out as a target in the same manner as we are being singled out for potential financial destruction. We can fight back or get revenge by doing what we can to ruin its image in any visible vocal but legal way.
Again I’m NOT listening to anyone who says it’s too early or it can’t be won. The government here is negotiating secretly now with Treasury.. We need to preempt this and file a billion dollar suit and issue a press release for the media so that the publicity will bring this to the light of day and enrage hundreds of thousands more duals and bring them to our information sites to rally them.
This will turn into a propaganda war and if we don’t win then the least we can do is destroy the average Canadians image of Canada as a free sovereign country. Canada certainly isn’t what it used to be. Where are the Chretiens that told America to go fly a kite when they wanted us to enter Iraq?
Also if you haven’t moved your accounts out of the transnational banks and into credit unions do so immediately. Credit Unions are the best defense because they do business with members, not “natural persons”.
EVERYONE SHOULD READ THIS FROM CREDIT UNION CENTRAL. THEY ARE SCARED THE WHOLE CREDIT UNION SYSTEM WOULD BE DESTABILISED IF FATCA IS ENACTED so they are begging for an IGA. If one local credit union has a recalcitrant member then the whole system is in jeopardy. Credit Unions do not have the right to close a recalcitrant account because membership in Central is mandatory.
“Canada’s Central Credit Unions request that the IRS consider exempting centrals from FATCA compliance requirements in light of the material role they play to the soundness and stability of the Canadian Credit Union system as liquidity providers to local or natural person credit unions”
Also does anyone remember this:
*****BANK TRANSFER DAY******
I recommend that all US persons in Canada desert the transnational banks and switch to Credit Unions. Now how do we get the word out on this is we can’t get the publicity that would come with a class action lawsuit????