FATCA and Switzerland

205 thoughts on “FATCA and Switzerland”

1. @Medea Fleecestealer

   Just who the hell does the US think it is that it would require Swiss banks to open their books to every other nation in the world? Their beef is between the two of them.

2. It is like I have always said- if a blackmailer sees that the threat is working, then they keep on demanding more and more. Its classic.

3. http://theexpatwriter.blogspot.ca/2015/02/part-i-expats-are-not-expats-are.html
   http://theexpatwriter.blogspot.ca/2015/02/part-2-expats-are-not-expats-are.html

4. Endspiel???

   http://beta.nzz.ch/wirtschaft/endspiel-im-us-steuerstreit-1.18495380

5. Some FATCA articles from Le Matin:
   http://www.lematin.ch/services/suche/suche.html?q=fatca&order=date&date=alle

6. from TDG
   http://www.tdg.ch/services/recherche/?order=date&q=fatca&submitSearch=Chercher&date=alle

7. Some more statistics on Americans in Switzerland:
   From 2010 to 2013, the number of US-born residents in Switzerland increased by 2,207, from 33,718 to 35,925. Broken down:
   Increase in US citizens born in the US: + 394 (14,984 to 15,378)
   Increase in CH citizens born in the US: +1,062 (15,627 to 16,689)
   Increase in “other” citizens (non-US, non-CH) born in the US: +751 (3,107 to 3,858)
   Total: 2,207 (33,718 to 35,925)

   While bearing in mind that Switzerland allows dual citizenship, the 1,813 increase in CH and other citizens of the total 2,207 increase could be candidates for expatriation, or why else would they have taken out CH citizenship, which is expensive and time-consuming, or another non-US, non-CH citizenship.

   At 2014 there were 3,956 USCs in Switzerland, who were not duals but who had resided in Switzerland for 10 or more years. They can or should be able to take out Swiss citizenship shortly and could be candidates for expatriation in the coming years.

8. @Innocente, just because they can doesn’t mean they will be accepted. See here:

   http://www.englishforum.ch/swiss-politics-news/219685-american-professor-denied-swiss-citizenship.html

9. @Medea Fleecestealer:
   I remember the professor’s case. He would have been a shoe-in in most cantons, but Schwyz and possibly his town are special.

   I was initially surprised at how many US-born USCs in Switzerland apparently have taken “other” (non-CH) citizenships in the past two years but, after reflection, it is a likely route for those who qualify. I seem to have forgotten that I also looked at that avenue.

10. Austria has restrictive naturalization laws including a 10-year residence period and a requirement to renounce existing citizenship. Although there were 1,066,114 foreigners in the country, there were only 7,693 naturalizations in 2014. The naturalization development over the past five years for US citizens in Austria is:
    2010: 25
    2011: 29
    2012: 26
    2013: 30
    2014: 49
    At 2013 there were 7,334 USCs registered as USCs in Austria and a total 10,175 US-born residents of Austria, suggesting that the difference of 2,841 US-born were registered with the Austrian authorities as Austrians or as a citizens of a country other than the US. It can be expected that there were at least 49 expatriations at the US Embassy Vienna in 2014 plus an undetermined number of the 2,841 US-born residents registered with the Austrian authorities as Austrians or other nationality.

11. A summary of an interview with the US Ambassador to Switzerland in the on-line edition of the Swiss Handelszeitung contains this:

    “The ambassador is currently leading discussion with the (Swiss) Bankers’ Association. This is being done, because it is frustrating for US citizens that Swiss banks are not allowing them to open an account. “I hope that the banks will desist from this when the automated information exchange is introduced – and more banks reach an agreement under the (US-Swiss Tax) Programme.” ”

    http://www.handelszeitung.ch/unternehmen/us-botschafterin-sieht-ende-des-steuerstreits-786056

12. Possible reason behind which Parliament and the Federal Council bent over to blackmail and accepted an unconstitutional IGA treasonous to the rights and interests of the Sovereign People.

    Please see (French) : http://www.rts.ch/info/economie/6901175-apple-exxon-l-industrie-d-armement-la-bns-investit-des-milliards-aux-usa.html

    Translation of the title subtitle:

    Apple, Exxon, arms industry, the BNS invests billions in the USA… The Swiss National Bank holds a portfolio of American stocks worth almost 38 billion Dollars.

    In the footnote block second from the bottom of the article entitled “Des investissements dans les arms”, the article says that the BNS assures us that it abstains from purchasing stocks of companies who produce weapons prohibited by the international community.

    The last footnote block says that the strong franc boosts the investments, first paragraph thereof: “The strong growth of the investments between last quarter 2014 and the first quarter of 2015 corresponds to the appreciation of the franc following the abandonment of the floor exchange-rate” (BNS had blocked the EUR = 1.2 CHF until beginning of the year, at which point it fell to parity). What? If the franc increased in foreign exchange value wouldn’t the value of US investments go down? What do they mean?

13. http://www.rts.ch/info/suisse/6905385-des-vacances-tres-helvetiques-pour-les-conseillers-federaux.html

    Locarno, l’Oberland ou l’Argovie, les conseillers fédéraux resteront majoritairement en Suisse durant l’été, selon un tour d’horizon de l’ats. Des voyages de travail à l’étranger sont également prévus.
    Simonetta Sommaruga effectuera des randonnées en montagne et ira en Espagne et Pologne pour des visites de travail. Le 1er août, elle parlera au Grütli (UR).

    Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf célébrera la Fête nationale à Titterten (BL) et s’octroiera quelques jours de repos en Suisse.

    Alain Berset passera ses vacances en Suisse et en France. Pour la fête nationale, il sera à Lindau (ZH) et Sierre (VS), puis se rendra à l’Expo universelle de Milan et au Festival de Locarno.

    Doris Leuthard effectuera une visite de travail à Singapour et en Corée et prendra quelques jours de repos en Suisse. Le 1er août, elle sera à Ottenbach (ZH) et Bad Zurzach (AG).

    Ueli Maurer ne s’est pas exprimé sur ses vacances. Pour la Fête nationale, il sera à Grosswangen (LU) et Nottwil (LU).

    Johann Schneider-Ammann ira à Allschwil (BL) le 31 juillet et à Milan le lendemain. Il passera quelques jours dans l’Oberland bernois.

    Didier Burkhalter, pas fixé sur ses vacances, sera à Sumiswald (BE) et Zurich le 1er août

    All I wanna say is that don’t care about us dude!

14. These are the buffoons that don’t care about us:

    http://www.rts.ch/2014/07/04/17/37/5982838.image?w=900&h=506

15. Credit Suisse has set up a whistleblower’s website directed at identifying US Persons with accounts at the bank. A passage from the website: “Specifically, if you have knowledge of the facilitation of illegal banking or securities services to U.S. accountholders, including but not limited to efforts to open and maintain accounts for U.S. nationals so as to evade payment of U.S. taxes, you may make a report by using the link on this page. ”

    https://creditsuissemonitor.org/index.php

    The website has been set up as part of a consent agreement between the New York Department of Financial Services and Credit Suisse.

    It is unclear how it is possible for a Credit Suisse employee to report on a suspected US Person with a suspected illicit bank account to this law firm and avoid violating Swiss bank customer privacy laws.

16. To answer my own question from above: “how it is possible for a Credit Suisse employee to report on a suspected US Person with a suspected illicit bank account to this law firm and avoid violating Swiss bank customer privacy laws”, the CS whistleblower’s website says this:

    “File a Report
    Because this website is operated by an independent service provider, and to help ensure compliance with Swiss banking law, we request that you not share client identifying information (e.g. names, addresses or identifying numbers) in any report submitted to this website. If client identifying information is essential to your report, we ask you to provide such client identifying information to Lalive, the Monitor’s Swiss legal counsel through this secured messaging system, rather than via this website.”

17. @Innocente

    Wasn’t this tactic used during a war to narc out fellow humans who were or were not a certain culture/religion? Any nut can now point a finger & accuse someone of being a US person… then the accused must now prove they are not… This could ruin someone’s life if they are not… how do u prove u are not???

18. Yes, USFP, how do you prove a negative?

19. There’s nothing new under the sun, as the saying goes.

    The Credit Suisse monitor website is calling for denunciation of US Person customers. The bank employee denouncer, however, is not supposed to identify the denunciant by name or bank account number, etc. to avoid violating Swiss bank customer privacy laws.

    An actual denunciation could take two forms. The first would be legal but the information would be rather useless to the monitor. The second would be illegal but would contain the information that the monitor needs:
    1) the bank employee denounces the customer as a US Person without specific identification.
    – “Customer X speaks German with an English accent and I think he is an American because he was wearing a Polo shirt when he came in to my branch. Customer X is not identified as an American in our records.”
    2) the bank employee denounces the customer as a US Person identifying the customer by name or account name, ignoring bank privacy laws.
    – “Customer John Schmid, account 12345, speaks German with an English accent and I think he is really an American because he was wearing a Polo shirt. Furthermore, I have determined that his parents, Johann and Waltraud Schmid, live in Tampa, Florida from an internet search. His file says that he is German.”

    So, what is the purpose of this whistleblower’s website:
    1) to impress the NY Dept of Finance that Credit Suisse is doing all possible to identify US Person customers, even though submission of detailed information by a bank employee would be in violation of Swiss bank customer privacy laws?
    2) to actually gain useful leads for the law firm monitor so that he can pursue suspected US Person customers within the bank for reporting to the IRS?
    – Since the submissions are anonymous the probability that the bank employee could be prosecuted for violation of Swiss bank customer privacy laws is probably low.

    A possible legal concern for Credit Suisse and the law firm is that the mere establishment of this website could be viewed as an incitement to break Swiss bank customer privacy law. This could be a criminal offense.

20. It’s offensive, criminal or otherwise.

21. The Credit Suisse monitor website is indeed offensive.

    Incitement to commit a crime is also a criminal offense under Swiss law, article 24, sec. 5 (which I should have researched earlier):

    “Art. 24
    5. Participation.
    Incitement
    1 Any person who has wilfully incited another to commit a felony or a misdemeanour, provided the offence is committed, incurs the same penalty as applies to the person who has committed the offence.
    2 Any person who attempts to incite someone to commit a felony incurs the penalty applicable to an attempt to commit that felony.”

    Given the possible legal uncertainty, principals of the Credit Suisse monitor law firm might wish to avoid trips to Switzerland. Suspected criminals can spend months or even years sitting in Swiss investigatory detention until they cooperate. Switzerland does not have the habeas corpus concept in its law.

    The law firm monitor website is running on the Switzerland-located servers of a Zurich-based company. This is something it got right.

22. They already have FATCA. Why do they need a whistleblower in addition?

23. @polly
    They could have customers with dual citizenship but without US indicia ie no US birthplace and who opened account with a non us passport.
    It’s an illegal witchunt.

24. As to the Bopp / Paul sponsored lawsuit in the US against FATCA http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2015/07/14/finally-the-bopp-suit-has-arrived/comment-page-5/#comment-6299375

    Here is the first Swiss article that I could find. There is some incomplete/incorrect information in the article (for example Paul is Senator from Kentucky, not Kansas, and I don’t understand why it mentions the 6th as filing date when the case was filed the 14th according to the electronic stamp at the top of the pdf files on the main Brock article for this). There is a link at the bottom of the article to write the author: http://www.letemps.ch/Page/Uuid/0e310df8-2bf3-11e5-8a84-afa5481f305f/La_loi_Fatca_attaqu%C3%A9e_en_justice_par_des_Am%C3%A9ricains_de_l%C3%A9tranger

    I am surprised that there are not more articles already in Switzerland, it has been 3 days since filing.

25. @Heidi
    ….and those are the people who shouldn’t be taxed by America in the first place, no? Talk about making dishonourable people of us all. The world is about snitches and moles, spies and spying, secrets and back-stabbing. It has become a hellhole. I totally understand Wikileaks, Snowden et al. There are the rulers and the ruled and a huge gap between them.
    Things don`t look good. And whenever I hear about somebody else who has designated himself to be a “terrorist” and goes around shooting innocent people in America, I wonder if their hatred isn’t based on something else entirely? Even the completely despicable ISIS is full of rage to behave as horrifically as they do. Why? Why are they so fed up with the status quo that they go out and commit such atrocities? Is there something that all of mankind is missing?