Consulate Report Directory (Brockers Describe their Consulate Meetings) and CLN Delivery Time Chart Part 2
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Wonder what really happens at the consulates? Find out in the Isaac Brock Society’s Consulate Report Directory, currently 279 pages of first-hand accounts of renunciation/relinquishment appointments, arranged by consulate location, along with further information and links to the required Dept of State forms and the Dept of State manuals used by the consulates in processing CLN applications, with an appendix containing a timeline chart (booking-meeting-CLN) as reported by consulate location.
The Directory is updated as consulate visit stories are posted on the website.
You can post here or elsewhere on the site (we’ll keep an eye out for them). Some comments may be excerpted or condensed slightly in the consulate reports. The original posts and comments remain on their threads are not edited.
Thanks to everyone for sharing your experiences…and keep ’em coming! It’s a new experience for everyone and your information is really helpful.
To change or delete your report in the Directory, you can post the change as a comment on this thread or e-mail Pacifica@isaacbrocksociety.ca
Click here for the Consulate Report Directory
Consulates are listed alphabetically by country and the Directory’s table of contents links to each section (they don’t look like links, but they are.)
This thread is a continuation of Consulate Report Directory Part 1, which contains earlier discussion on this topic, 929 comments from its inception in March 2012 through February 2013.
To Book an Appointment and/or Request Information from your Local Consulate:
This post by Eric, Almost No US Citizenship Renunciation Appointments Left During 2016 in Dublin, contains a chart of links to the consulates’ website pages on renunciation/relinquishment, for info on booking appointments and/or requesting information at your location. (The title highlights Dublin, but the charts, article and discussion cover consulates around the world.)
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Sorry to hear that UnforgivenToo. Take your time to get as well as you can; that’s the most important thing.
Renunciation finally achieved this week, in a city in Western Canada. Here’s what went down:
Applied in November 2020. Received notification of the appointment in the early fall of 2021. Appointment in early January 2022. Total wait time 14 months.
Instructions for the appointment were a bit confusing. The notification e-mail said to bring an unsigned DS-4081 form, but the consulate provides copies of this already filled out. They also request a copy of the SSN, if available, even though this is not required under State Department rules.
I arrived early on the appointed day, was taken through security – worse than the airport, with an absurd number of uniforms standing around – before being escorted up the elevator to the waiting area. Was repeatedly asked to remove my Canada toque covered in maple leaves. Not sure if this was seen as provocative political speech, or simply a no-hat rule.
Security ushers you to the correct seating area: “US citizen?” “Not for much longer.”
Called to a window where non-diplomatic staff review your paperwork, give you five minutes to carefully read the DS-4080 and DS-4081 forms, and take your money. I wanted it on the credit card to collect points, but as backup in case of failure I brought an envelope with cash, safely zipped into a jacket pocket. (I returned the cash to the bank on the way home – no exchange rate loss if you have a US dollar account. I’d recommend doing this for peace of mind.) I was asked if I had an SSN. I shrugged and said no, they said nothing and continued. This was not a lie if we refer to the physical object, the paper card – I did not have it with me.
Then after short wait, up to see the consular official. Very fast and friendly. They reviewed a few points on the DS-4081 form. First, that you will become an alien with the same rights to visit as anyone else with your nationality. No threats that you’ll never be let back over the border. Then point 10, where they briefly remind you that if you happen to owe back taxes to the IRS, these debts will not go away. Nothing else said on the subject of tax; no mention of past filing obligations, compliance, the tax exit procedure or any of that. (There are short instructions to contact the IRS and file Form 8854 included on the information e-mail sent out with the appointment, but never mentioned during the interview.)
Then you are asked to give your reasons for renouncing: “I identify as Canadian, was born in the US to Canadian parents who returned to Canada when I was a small child, I grew up in Canada, I have no connection to the US, nor future plans to live and work in the US.” “No family in the US? So really just looking to simplify your life?” asks the young consular official, for whom this has become daily routine. “Exactly,” says I, then we swear the oath and sign the forms and I’m out the door. No attempt to talk you out of it, no sorry to see you leave – they know exactly what’s going on.
You’re given the usual caveat that it’s not official until someone in Washington approves it, but based on what was said, no reason to believe that it won’t be, and the approval will be backdated to the day of the appointment. The CLN will be mailed out in a few months, in an Xpress envelope that you’ve provided (and paid for) and filled out yourself. I currently have no need for the CLN since I’ve never disclosed my US citizenship to banks, but I suppose it’s good to have a copy with me when I travel, or if we need to open a new account in Europe. (For immediate use, the receipt shows “Cert Loss Nationality” or something and this can be shown to financial institutions or border personnel.)
There was one person ahead of me in line, and I couldn’t avoid overhearing the exchange. I felt bad for him, he was born in Canada and later “naturalized” by a US parent, otherwise he had never set foot in the US except as a tourist. With a Canadian birthplace and no US ties, renunciation was likely a waste of time and money. His statement sounded very coached (I essentially copied it when I went up after, just to be cheeky) so I’m wondering if he hadn’t fallen victim to our friends at Moodys and been convinced to do all his tax filings and so on. That’s an expensive proposition.
Congratulations! Shame it took so long to get an appointment, but not surprising these days I guess with covid screwing everything up.
@Yet Another Alias: Congratulations on the achievement and peace of mind. My hope is that I will be renouncing in the next few months. In my case, I am in the covered expatriate category and I flagrantly did not comply with taxes when I lived there. No one from the IRS or the banks have ever bothered me and I just sign the declaration that I am not a US person and use my local documents. However, my non-US wife is somewhat uneasy and I just want to sever my ties to the US for good.
@ Yet Another Alias,
Thanks very much for your detailed report! I’m glad things went well, that the meeting was “fast and friendly” — and that you’re finally out the waiting limbo.
Your report is the first report we’ve received since the pandemic started. So, I’ll update the Consulate Report Directory with it this week.
Though we haven’t got any reports since the pandemic, I did receive some feedback from several people who had appointments since they re-started appointments in Canada a bit over a year ago (I’ve passed on some info from them in comments occasionally). But it’s great to have a full report for publication once again!
Most recently, I heard from someone last month. Their appointment, also in Canada, was about 18 months from their application in Spring 2020. I’m hoping yours being 16 months means the backlog is decreasing, but these may be different consulates and there’s always been some difference in wait times at consulates here.
CLN received today, one month after renouncing. Decent service, all things considered.
I felt a pronounced sense of relief when I got that CLN.
Indeed. I never had any reason to doubt that the renunciation would go through, but it’s still nice to have confirmation that it’s a done deal. Time to upload a photo somewhere safe, make a couple of paper copies to staple to the will and keep with the Canadian passport for the very unlikely event of future travel south of the border, and forget about all this. (No need to inform banks because banks never knew.)
I carry a photocopy of my CLN when travelling to Mexico and Cuba, or any flight over the US, in case the plane has to make an emergency stop in the US. It happens.
Yeah, that’s a pretty good turnaround for getting the CLN.
I always carry a copy of mine with me wherever I go, just in case it’s needed for whatever.
Well done. Do you mind sharing which city in western Canada and how long you waited for your appointment. My son applied in Toronto 2 years ago and so far not a dicky bird.
Calgary, approximately 14 months wait time. I can’t remember exactly but something like 6 weeks notice of the appointment time.
@ Yet Another Alien,
Good to hear the CLN came in a month. I just realised I forgot to add your report to the Directory. I’ll do that tomorrow. Thanks again.
I apologise if I am posting in the wrong spot. Two things, first the US consulates in Spain are still not doing renunciations supposedly to protect us all from COVID! I wrote to them this week to see if I can book a renunciation when we visit later this year.
Second, I searched for Isaac Brock Society on Google to post my update. The website no longer appears at the top of the results. There are a couple links from the website midway on page 1 and references to Isaac Brock Society on other websites elsewhere on page 1. I just wanted to notify the moderators to see if Google has now decided to censor Isaac Brock Society. Once we begin censoring ‘fake news’ and suppressing free speech ostensibly to protect people, the power ends up misused. The owners should be able to see the traffic on WordPress.
I moved your comment here. Thanks for the update about the consulates in Spain. Odd that Brock isn’t coming up first when you google Isaac Brock Society, but no reason to think we’ve been censored by Google. I just checked, using my regular server and a proxy server, and it came up on top, and traffic volume has been normal.
@Pacifica777 I just searched now using my work computer and the website appears at the top of the search results when I type in Isaac Brock Society. My phone also takes me directly to the website. Maybe Google is just censoring me trying to direct me to the ‘right content’.
Anyway, maybe keep an eye on things in case you notice changes to traffic. I will post updates from the embassies in the coming months. The baby will arrive in May and I obtained the US $2,350 in cash when I was in the US last week.
Google does glitchy things sometimes. You or I or this site are not being “censored” in any way, shape or form.
Minor update to my earlier report of renunciation in Canada, and some advice. I thought I was being clever by using the credit card to pay the renunciation fee, but having US cash zipped into a pocket as backup. Turns out I should have paid cash. Whatever points I earned by using the card won’t come close to the $200 it ended up costing me in bad credit card exchange rates and currency movements during the interval between renouncing and paying the bill. How dumb of me. The cash came straight from a US dollar account so there would have been no transaction cost. Oh well, live and learn.
Are you that sure about censorship ? I’ve already seen a few sites seen a few websites disappear into the blue. Off topic ,but just for a moment, and not to be censured here,hopefully, I seem to recall something about napalm,agent orange, 24/7 bombing for 7 continuous years of Vietnam ,and its hospitals by the US ,and without any outrage or protest from the western nations. Or was that just a dream?
I can state with a high degree of confidence that this site has never been subject to any form of censorship. We are not of interest to anyone in authority. We are not a threat to anyone in authority. We are not a foreign-funded disinformation op. Literally, nobody cares. And this is a good thing, because it means that we can continue to help prevent a small number of people from becoming entrapped in unnecessary US tax compliance.
I was referring to the moderators here and possibly having my fingers smacked for straying off topic,though IBS has been very reasonable in that regard. As for foreign owned disinformation apps, I do hope that you are not suggesting that we are without our share of ,be they,disinformation ,misinformation,malinformation ops
No need to minimize IBS. I am sure that there have been not a small number of people who have quietly entered the portal ,gotten what they wanted, and quietly left without a footprint.
We’re starting to get off-topic. ByeByeUSA had concern about Brock in relation to search engine results/possible censorship by the search engine companies. That’s something the board has also been concerned about and followed developments in since the founding of Brock. So far, we’ve found no reason or evidence to suspect we’ve been censored by them. Please keep discussion to topics of CBT/FATCA/US citizenship (but let us know if you have cause for concern or something we should look into — you can also do that by e-mailing a mod).
@Yet another Alias
Re paying the renunciation fee with a credit card. There are some cards which only charge +1% over the interbank rate( the rate at which banks lend to each other) on foreign transactions. I use a capital one master charge who sticks to 1%. You should have been charged at the time the renunciation took place.
Another tip is that you should always insist on being charged in the Currency of the Country (or Embassy )in which the transaction takes place as you have a contract with your credit card company to set the exchange rate ( + 1%)over the interbank rate. If you let the merchant set the rate they can charge whatever they choose, and it can be up to +5%. I have seen unsuspecting American tourists at Heathrow be fooled into choosing to be charged in dollars not pounds. This is when Harrods or other merchant will set their own rate which will always be above your credit card contract rate. They do this to cover their costs. Don’t let the merchant set the rate.
We don’t normally do a lot of foreign-currency stuff with our credit cards, so it’s not been something I needed to research. Typically we’re in the eurozone, before a trip we’ll shoot a big lump of money to our euro account using Wise, then use that credit card for everything. It’s one transaction at a very good rate.
Yes, the “pay in Canadian dollars” trick at the Heathrow duty-free is evil.
In my own foolish case with the consulate, I think it was partly that I made two conversions – first the USD charge on the credit card being converted to CAD, then a conversion from USD to CAD moving the money from my US dollar account to pay the credit card bill – plus an unfavourable currency movement in the week or so between the charge going through and my making the payment. I was so keen on bagging points that I didn’t stop to think through all the ramifications. Oh well, only $200 in the end, but a good lesson.
I realize that these comments are about renunciation and I am talking about the opposite process but perhaps someone here knows the answer. I am trying to book an appointment to get a Report of Birth Abroad at the US Embassy, but there are no appointments, full or otherwise. Does this mean they aren’t offering this service? There are also only a few appointments for passport applications and they are all full. Does anyone have any idea if it is possible to get an emergency appointment or to get this done somewhere else? Thank you in advance.