Consulate Report Directory (Brockers Describe their Consulate Meetings) and CLN Delivery Time Chart Part 2
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Wonder what really happens at the consulates? Find out in the Isaac Brock Society’s Consulate Report Directory, currently 279 pages of first-hand accounts of renunciation/relinquishment appointments, arranged by consulate location, along with further information and links to the required Dept of State forms and the Dept of State manuals used by the consulates in processing CLN applications, with an appendix containing a timeline chart (booking-meeting-CLN) as reported by consulate location.
The Directory is updated as consulate visit stories are posted on the website.
You can post here or elsewhere on the site (we’ll keep an eye out for them). Some comments may be excerpted or condensed slightly in the consulate reports. The original posts and comments remain on their threads are not edited.
Thanks to everyone for sharing your experiences…and keep ’em coming! It’s a new experience for everyone and your information is really helpful.
To change or delete your report in the Directory, you can post the change as a comment on this thread or e-mail Pacifica@isaacbrocksociety.ca
Click here for the Consulate Report Directory
Notes:
Consulates are listed alphabetically by country and the Directory’s table of contents links to each section (they don’t look like links, but they are.)
This thread is a continuation of Consulate Report Directory Part 1, which contains earlier discussion on this topic, 929 comments from its inception in March 2012 through February 2013.
To Book an Appointment and/or Request Information from your Local Consulate:
This post by Eric, Almost No US Citizenship Renunciation Appointments Left During 2016 in Dublin, contains a chart of links to the consulates’ website pages on renunciation/relinquishment, for info on booking appointments and/or requesting information at your location. (The title highlights Dublin, but the charts, article and discussion cover consulates around the world.)
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@ Em,
The average wait time reported to Brock for CLNs at Calgary for routine relinquishments has been 3.33 months, for renunciations 3.64 months. There were two non-routine relinquishments at Calgary – they took 8 and 18 months, but your husband’s was quite straightforward, so hopefully soon.
In general, there doesn’t seem to be much difference in CLN turnaround time for renunciations or relinquishments, except if the relinquishment has a complicated factor/s to it.
Thanks, everyone! Yes, it’s nice to have my mother’s situation cleaned up. Her back-filing is all submitted, and the 2013 taxes and the 8854 will go in this week. She has been under the filing threshold for decades but we decided to file anyway, as some people suggest, just to be sure.
@ pacifica777
That’s good news. Yes, hopefully soon, a CLN for him too.
Hi guys,
Received my CLN, thanks for all the information posted.
Just one thing though, my passport only has holes, there is no stamp saying I expatriated, anything to worry about?
I have the CLN, just wondering if that is also an important detail.
Thanks in advance
ghost66,
I would think your CLN would be sufficient. If you’re worried and want peace of mind, perhaps contact the Consulate where you expatriated and ask them if they can stamp it for you.
And, by the way, BIG congratulations on receiving that CLN!
When we relinquished a year ago, my wife and I were not given our passports back. We had nothing at all from the embassy until 2 weeks later when our CLNs arrived by courier.
@ghost66
Nah, holes are good enough. Your passport is null and void either way. The important thing is the CLN. Congratulations.
Yitzi,
That is consistent I believe. No one will punch holes in our passports until that expatriation is approved in Washington, DC. Mine came back with punched holes and the “expatriated self” stamp with my CLN. I’m happy your wait was only two weeks to get anything back; the time in getting receipt of CLNs is the really inconsistent part from US Consulate to US Consulate so people are left wondering for varying amounts (and some very long) of time.
@pacifica777
Just writing to let you know, for the record, that I got my CLN issued April 2014. I had previously written back March 2014 that I had been waiting for over a year after filing for relinquishment at Paris embassy in February 2013. Took your advice and called Theresa at State Dept. in March. She found my file and said there was “a mistake” in it. However the call got the ball rolling again and a month later a done deal. Thanks for the advice.
@ TryingToBePatient,
Happy to hear that we were able to be of some help in this and very happy to hear that you’ve got your CLN now. Thanks for letting us know how things turned out. Congratulations!
@TryingToBePatient, Congratulations! Long wait, but well worth it I’d say.
My request to relinquish went like this:
Email to request for appointment Mar 31/14, receive a response April 1/14, appointment set for May 28/14
Attend appointment, go through security, did not bring a my cell phone or other items I thought might be a problem. Get there go through security, find out that my lip gloss, small mirror, and nail clippers and my very small hand gel (all things you can take on a plane now) are a national security problem there, have to throw them away or take them back to my car (parked three blocks away) and leave my vehicle unlock thing and only bring my car key and my wallet. So I run back to my car to leave everything and back to make my app time. I am the first one for an 8 am app to relinquish, there are several people there for passports and visas. I go up to the first window (after I get through two security checks) Give them my birth certificate, birth abroad (Canadian registration) marriage certificate, Canadian passport (I have never had a us passport). Sit wait, get called to a second window where I have to provide my government employment stuff, give her my oath that I had to get from my employer, she tells me that I do not need the oath because I was a Canadian citizen already so it is of no value to prove you are relinquishing. She stated that my employment may be enough, but stated that if I thought I had lost US citizenship when I turned 21 by not moving to the us or working there then I would not have believed that I had relinquished when I got a government job because I already thought I had was no longer an American. In my initial form that I filled out before my app I had put that on it. 🙁 I advised her I had consulted a lawyer who advised I had relinquished based on my age and not fulfilling my duty to live or work or take an oath in the US as well as with my employment, she stated it is not a shopping or wish list you can chose from and that the age thing was taken off the books in 78 and I would have only been 18 then not 21 or 25. She takes everything to copy and advises to sit and wait for the vise counsel. He meets with two others ahead of me then calls me in. He makes me swear an oath to tell the truth. I do. then he said he does not understand why I would think having a government job showed intent to give up my citizenship if at 21-25 I believed I had lost it already, I said that I read some where that they may not be the case, he wanted to know when. He asked did I know before I took my government job and reminded me I was under oath, I advised I could not remember the exact time. He then said to me did you when you took your job think I am doing this to relinquish my US citizenship. And again reminded me I was under oath, I said I believe I have relinquished my US citizenship, he again asked me if at the time I took the job I thought I was doing it to relinquish my citizenship, I again repeated what I said the first time, I then said he could give me a bible I would swear on it before GOD that I believe I have relinquished my US citizenship. He stated he is denying my request for a back dated CLN, I requested that he still send it through to Washington, he said that on occasion they will issue it but usually they take his decision. I asked how long until I might find out, he said about 6 months, he advised if I am denied I can stay a US citizen or renounce and pay the $450.00… I am praying with all my heart and soul that some one in Washington will take my work with the Canadian government starting in 2001 as a expatriating act. But when they say you are already a Canadian so how does this prove you are relinquishing with this what can you say? Feeling very down, wondering if I should have had a lawyer do this and paid the $5-10,000.00 they were going to charge.
Be very careful on the first form you fill out for them that you do not give any conflicting or what they will say is conflicting info. I thought from all I had read and looked into that showing how I had relinquished over the years over and over would be better. 🙁
I wonder if it could be credibly argued that there is such a thing as a REAFFIRMATION, of a previous intent to lose/ not take up US citizenship?
@Just Me
Playing Devil’s advocate here…but they seem to be playing Loosey Goosey on the Act…
You said
BUT isn’t 4B specifically about taking an oath? and you took an oath?
On review I can see where they are arguing committing the act with the INTENT to lose US Citizenship…
However, the wording of the OATH may in itself argue loss of citizenship…one has to read it carefully to see if it disowns a foreign allegiance…
@Canadagirl.403 (formerly Just Me):
I know someone who is currently dealing with the Calgary consulate (attempting to relinquish). He has found them pretty horrible to deal with– lots of nit picking, hair splitting, persistent attempts to pin down long forgotten details from years ago. I am aware of the details but the information isn’t mine to share so this is all I will say.
My suspicion for what it’s worth (which isn’t much) is that the number of people coming into the consulates to relinquish is sky rocketing. Given the political embarassment factor, they are starting to look for any and every opportunity to refuse these past relinquishments. If someone wants out, they’ll be pushed into paying the $450 fee and seeing the tax man on the way out door.
@Canadagirl.403
Thats appalling. I`m so sorry for you. I too think that the large number of people giving up their citizenship is making people edgy.
I just do not get it.
In the 80’s you had to jump through hoops, beg, grovel and have your lucky charm to KEEP your US nationality.
Now they have gone the other extreme in making you keep something you do not want.
Exodus 8:1
Then the LORD said to Moses, “Go to Pharaoh and tell him, ‘Thus says the LORD: “Release my people in order that they may serve me!
Badger: Yes – there IS a reaffirmation !!
They kept telling me that I could not prove intent to show I knew when I took the government job that I was doing it to expatriate. They questioned when I knew a government job would allow me to relinquish citizenship. And how could I give up something I did not think I had. It was brutal. I will have to wait the 6 months to see what happens but do I just use there law that states you do not need a CLN if you have expatriated or pay the 450.00. For me I do not plan to file any taxes and want to avoid that at all cost.
@Canadagirl.403
I don’t get their point. Are they just trying to make it difficult so they can collect a fee? That is what it appears to me. Geez these bureaucratic numskulls can be maddening.
@Canadagirl & Just Me,
Yes, absolutely maddening – just reading Canadagirl’s story makes me angry. Can I ask which consulate you went to (ie. which city)? Were you known (ie. have a SSN ) or unknown to the US govt.?
The injustice of this hits us on so many different levels.
@George
Who’s the Moses that can go to Pharaoh-bama?
And what are ten plagues that could loosen US policy on expats?
@Canadagirl
I’m so sorry that you had such a bad experience.
I had a similar experience at the Toronto consulate in January. I requested that they send my file to Washington anyway. If Washington denies my request, I will get a lawyer involved at that stage. That is always an option for you as well.
@Just Me,
perhaps, @450. per renunciation, the State Dept. or consular services is now not revenue neutral, but positively self-revenue generating as the lines get longer and longer. And under orders not to let any slip past without a ‘donation’. A regressive tax on citizenship. Pay us a bribe to let you leave.
State corruption rationalized to look presentable.