Consulate Report Directory (Brockers Describe their Consulate Meetings) and CLN Delivery Time Chart Part 2
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Wonder what really happens at the consulates? Find out in the Isaac Brock Society’s Consulate Report Directory, currently 279 pages of first-hand accounts of renunciation/relinquishment appointments, arranged by consulate location, along with further information and links to the required Dept of State forms and the Dept of State manuals used by the consulates in processing CLN applications, with an appendix containing a timeline chart (booking-meeting-CLN) as reported by consulate location.
The Directory is updated as consulate visit stories are posted on the website.
You can post here or elsewhere on the site (we’ll keep an eye out for them). Some comments may be excerpted or condensed slightly in the consulate reports. The original posts and comments remain on their threads are not edited.
Thanks to everyone for sharing your experiences…and keep ’em coming! It’s a new experience for everyone and your information is really helpful.
To change or delete your report in the Directory, you can post the change as a comment on this thread or e-mail Pacifica@isaacbrocksociety.ca
Click here for the Consulate Report Directory
Notes:
Consulates are listed alphabetically by country and the Directory’s table of contents links to each section (they don’t look like links, but they are.)
This thread is a continuation of Consulate Report Directory Part 1, which contains earlier discussion on this topic, 929 comments from its inception in March 2012 through February 2013.
To Book an Appointment and/or Request Information from your Local Consulate:
This post by Eric, Almost No US Citizenship Renunciation Appointments Left During 2016 in Dublin, contains a chart of links to the consulates’ website pages on renunciation/relinquishment, for info on booking appointments and/or requesting information at your location. (The title highlights Dublin, but the charts, article and discussion cover consulates around the world.)
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@calgary411, thats good news for Canada. But it confirms that the rest of us out there are stuffed.
Wonder if that would fall under the favorable treatment language? Something to lobby for in Europe and elsewhere.
Have read on some threads that Consulate Staff want to see your social security card.
I would think most people had long lost the card, though do know the number.
Do you really need the social security card to renounce or relinquish?
@ George,
No, you don’t need a social security card. A social security number is not required for the required forms (DS-4079, 4081, 4081, 4083). Some consulates do, however, ask for the social security card or for your number.
So far, I can’t recall anyone, who didn’t have a card/couldn’t remember their number/never had a card at all, reporting any problems at these consulates because of it. Vancouver, in its instructions of what to bring, says “Your US Social Security card, if you have one.” So, it doesn’t seem to be a big deal. Hope it stays that way.
Absolutely something to lobby for, George — so, I’m glad that Allison pointed that out for all of us. I know I am grateful for that information as I await clarification from my bank for their required assurance that my and my husband’s account information will not be turned over to the CRA to be turned over to the IRS even though we both have CLNs.
@Jane Doe belge, can you say which country you renounced in? If by some chance it was Canada, could you add the particular consulate? TIA.
tdott,
Jane Doe Belge = Brussels, Belgium.
JDB, Sincere congratulations!!
@George, no it’s not necessary, but the embassy/consulate’s paperwork may ask for it. I couldn’t remember my number when I filled in the questionnaire sent me by the embassy here in Switzerland, but they found it anyway from a previous passport renewal application.
@WhiteKat
Depends on your circumstances. As I was already in the system (have been filing US tax returns for over a decade) the CLN was the only way of leaving it. Am filing part year 2013 and 8854 to be done with it all.
I object to my bank giving my account details to the IRS “just” because of the privacy issue, not because I’m worried they’ll find me. Each person has their own circumstances and reasons.
Which forms are filled out for renouncing?
What about relinquishing?
If you renounce, do you need to fill out that form that asks about family ties?
@Shunrata,
Yes, I agree; your situation is different as you were already in the system. I was referring to people like TrueNorth, who were never in the system to begin with.
However, after a night of tossing and turning, I am starting to think that TrueNorth has the right idea. The nightmare never ends.
@ FormQuestion,
The forms, with links to them, are listed at Department of State Forms and Procedure Manuals for Renouncing/Relinquishing and on page 6 of the Consulate Report Directory
The form that asks about family ties, DS-4079, is not strictly required for renunciation, according to DoS Rules; however, some consulates use it.
Having family in the US doesn’t seem to have any impact on the matter at all, renunication or relinquishment. It’s pretty common, and logical that a lot of USCs would have family ties to the US. If it’s a relinquishment case, then the actions of the person themself after performing the relinquishing act are important, but having family ties to the US doesn’t raise any red flags.
“The Next Shoe Just Dropped: Court Denies Attorney-Client Privilege”
– http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-19/next-shoe-just-dropped-court-denies-attorney-client-privelege
This is my story at the Vancouver consulate in December 2013.
I made a general appoint with the Vancouver consulate and visited them with all the paper work filled out. However they said I needed to make a specific appointment for the relinquishment. I left and after about a week they told me that I had the appointment.
I had been very worried and had trouble sleeping the nights prior because I was not sure what to expect.
It was the usual security process, and I was escorted to the floor for citizens.
Shortly after meeting with one of the people behind a window, they told me I couldn’t relinquish because I had used my US passport after I was granted non-US citizenship, however they would modify my forms to make it a renouncement. This was not an issue for me, I just wanted to avoid the 450$ “fine”.
While they were processing my documents, they put me in a waiting room for 45 minutes and gave me some papers to read while waiting. They largely consisted of warnings and consequences about giving up US citizenship…… kids cannot become citizens….. cannot work there….. etc. Luckily I brought a book and skipped them, but I guess they really want to give you every opportunity to back out.
After I was called to the window by the consulate officer, he asked me some last questions.
He really wanted to know if I would be working in the US in the future, and seemed pretty adamant about knowing. I was not sure what was going on, but I didn’t want to give him any reason to deny it so I told him no, even if I don’t have a crystal ball (chances are so low anyways).
Only thing I did not like was that he was asking me why I wanted to renounce even though I stated on the form that I did not want to give an explanation. Other than that, I found the people to be very nice and helpful.
They gave me a receipt and told me that it would take 6 months, possibly longer. The wait continues…
To ghost66:
“…they told me I couldn’t relinquish because I had used my US passport after I was granted non-US citizenship, however they would modify my forms to make it a renouncement. This was not an issue for me, I just wanted to avoid the 450$ “fine”. ”
I’m a bit confused by your wording. Could you clarify your statement for me? Were you allowed to relinquish after all even though you had used your U.S. passport? Had you filled out a relinquishment form which they then changed to a renunciation form? Were you charged the $450 fee or not?
If you are willing to share it I am very interested in your experience.
@MuzzledNoMore
Sorry about that, I can clarify it all. Short story is that I was charged the $450 and they did change it from a relinquishment to a renouncement.
So I had gone in there with the idea to relinquish but they said since I had used my US passport, that it was not possible to relinquish to the date I was naturalized. This was because the continued use of the US passport was seen as affirming my status as a US citizen (even after naturalization).
They offered to change the paperwork to a flat out renouncement on that day and I accepted. Took them about five minutes but they were helpful and made the necessary changes. Would have been nice to avoid the 450$ but it is a small price to pay for an unburdened future. The reason this what not an issue for me is because it was not long ago that I was naturalized, I am young and I have assets even less than a covered expatriate.
So a word of warning not to continue to use a US passport even after naturalization. This has been covered here, but a reminder would not hurt.
Questions for people who have received their CLN.
How did they notify you that it was ready? (email, phone?)
I gave a prepaid Canada post envelope to them. Do they just send it? What is the procedure?
Thanks
Thanks for the clarification, ghost66! Congratulations on taking this step and good luck with your CLN!
1) Have people found that bringing an Affidavit to assist in confirming ‘intention’ to relinquish in the 1990s is helpful?
2) Re using a US passport after a relinguishing act, ‘Intention’ should be considered. Some border authorities refuse to accept Canadian passports. A friend of ours was denied boarding at the airport several hours and missed her scheduled flight. Dual citizens may be forced to use US passport under duress.
3) Re “fear of entering the system” – have people relinguishing effective prior to 2000 been caught in the IRS web? Required to complete form 8854?
@MuzzledNoMore
No worries and thanks. Just waiting on the document now.
Greggario:
Regarding #3: See http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/GPO-CPRT-JCS-2-03/pdf/GPO-CPRT-JCS-2-03-9-2.pdf
From 1995-1999: 1,158 out of 2,735 (42% compliance) turned in an 8854.
A family member went to Toronto Consulate to relinquish this week.
US born, Canadian citizen since 1987 and no US passport or any other link to US.
Two days prior to relinquishment appointment he was emailed a reminder notice by the consulate which said he had an appointment for a foreign birth registration (?!) and to bring a stamped mailer envelope. That was confusing and as there is no way to call anyone directly at the consulate , he brought the envelope along (which as it turns out, is needed for relinquishment).
He was there 75 minutes, of which 6 were face to face with a person behind the counter. They wanted the paper Canadian citizenship certificate (not the plastic card) for proof of citizenship as it has the date it happened and the card doesn’t. He did not have it, so they said he can mail it to them, they’ll copy it and send it back, or he can make another appointment to bring it in and they’ll make a copy and mail it back ( and would also have to send another stamped mailer)
He was told 6- 9 month wait for CLN once all documents are in.
@ globalcitizen
I would recommend your friend deliver his Canadian citizenship certificate in person to the consulate. I wouldn’t trust that document to the mail. It would be all kinds of a headache for him if it went missing. My husband was told at his citizenship ceremony that they do not give replacements.
@Em
I don’t know why they would tell your husband that they don’t replace Canadian citizenship certificates.
FWIW, I obtained an updated one last year.
From http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/certif.asp:
@ tdott
I don’t know either … maybe they were just trying to say “Don’t lose it”. Anyway, he’s treated it like a piece of gold ever since. He took it in person to Passport Canada (a day of driving) rather than trust it to the mail. Maybe they meant you’ll never get another one which looks like the original which has a photo included.
Concerning showing documents: When I can present the original in person,I’ll bring whatever needed along.
For all correspondence : a photocopy or scan of the original. I’ve never yet had a problem with that procedure. For my Swiss bank account: the bank was satisfied with my scanned CLN sent via email and postal service ,after which they sent me further forms to fill out ,sign and send them.
But I’d never ever dare to leave anyone an original document. I’m surprised to hear that that was expected.