TODAY (DECEMBER 1, 2017) REPUBLICANS OVERSEAS SAID:
“RO Update on TTFI and FATCA:
The JCT (Joint Committee on Taxation) finally released the Senate tax bill score with the indication that the Senate Tax Cuts and Jobs Act would add more than $1 trillion to federal deficits over the next 10 years: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/senate-tax-bill…/…/2642198
Unfortunately, the TTFI score was not included. Without JCT’s TTFI score, Sen. Heller’s two place-holder amendments cannot be moved to the Senate floor for debate and vote. Because Congress intends to pass tax reform using budget reconciliation (which imposes a limit on any increase in the budget deficit), no amendments without a JCT score can be included in the bill, and this, unfortunately, includes TTFI.
Republicans Overseas is very disappointed that TTFI will not be included in the current Tax Cuts and Jobs Act.
We will not stop fighting, however, and we still have a chance to make one major change in this bill process: repeal FATCA.
Senator Rand Paul’s FATCA amendment has been submitted to the Senate, and the amendment will be debated and voted on as early as Friday. FATCA has already been scored by the JCT in a previous process, so it can be included in the bill.
Please contact your senators!
The Senate vote on the tax bill was delayed while Senate Republican leaders made changes to the bill to win over several hold-outs. This delay gives us more time to contact senators and ask them to support Sen. Paul’s FATCA repeal amendment.”
The above posted in: https://www.facebook.com/republicansoverseas/
What a revolting way for a supposedly democratic country to make tax laws. What a country! Exceptional, indeed. They’ve connived to suppress the analysis of the long-term cost of this tax raid for the rich, and are now busily agreeing to whatever is asked, in order to “secure” the votes of this senator and that senator, behind the backs of the people who pay the salary of the senator and will be picking up the tab for Amazon’s and Google’s windfalls. Once they’ve got the money “secured”, they can start unpicking the sweeteners they’ve doled out along the way.
Automatic tax increases – how can people elected to govern in the interests of their people be so cruel!
Renounce, or ignore the devils. From America will come only more trouble – not a solution.
I can no longer find the exact paragraphs, my eyes are just glazing over.
But there are NO CHANGES to the sections that would carve out small CFCs from the Transition Tax. So if it remains this way, we have a major battle on our hands with the compliance industry.
Stephen Kish, Heller’s amendments have absolutely nothing to do with us, TTFI, etc. Why is the info we are getting so out of whack with what is actually there?
Grateful to see R Paul’s FATCA amendment
A major fight indeed, Trish. Many people will simply be forced to quit filing if they can’t find accountants who will sign off on returns that don’t include a tax that people cannot or will not pay.
I suspect, nothing. Same as now. Even if the c****r threatened to turn one in, as long as Canada respects the Revenue Rule and one is careful not to have any US assets nothing they can do to collect it.
There almost certainly will be a number of renunciations over this issue (esp if Morneau keeps it up-how many assaults can one absorb?).
Its only fair to ignore them as they are doing to us. No way the bloody Congress can claim they don’t know about our issues.
I would definitely keep the calls coming in terms of the Rand Paul REPEAL FATCA amendment. I am under the understand it is definitely on the cusp of passing but there is “resistance” to it. So yes keep the phones off the hook.
Hard to imagine things getting worse for Mr Dewees, but it can if he still has a Canadian corporation and hasn’t yet taken Canadian Citizenship.
Gotcha legislation pure and simple, for him and many many more like him.
What do any of you think the IRS would do to someone who suddenly stops filing US taxes and reporting on 5471’s? Nothing? Passport revocation?
I previously asked Republicans Overseas on its FB site, and Heller’s LA, for the actual text of the Heller TTFI amendments. Following your comment I just asked RO yet again for this information and provided to RO the link that you found.
The relevance of any of the above should be known soon.
Stephen Kish…it no longer matters;;
From RO Facebook;
“Unfortunately, the TTFI score was not included. Without JCT’s TTFI score, Sen. Heller’s two place-holder amendments cannot be moved to the Senate floor for debate and vote. Because Congress intends to pass tax reform using budget reconciliation (which imposes a limit on any increase in the budget deficit), no amendments without a JCT score can be included in the bill, and this, unfortunately, includes TTFI.”
George, I am adding more text to what you just posted. If I interpret the text correctly, it appears that RO has given up on including TTFI in the tax reform bill:
How on earth did this country get to this point? A monstrous mish mash of tax breaks for the 0.1 % rushed through in secret by a venal set of politicians bought and paid for.
Stephen- I admire your perseverance in spite of the fact that you are no longer American.
All roads lead to renunciation.
o.k. placeholders. Is perhaps putting something better than nothing?
So then, what to put that would not require scoring: Measures that don’t change tax revenues.
Part of the aim of H.R. 1 is compliance simplification. Can we run with that?
How about gutting FBAR? Raise limits ($10,000 to $100,000 and put in an inflation index), end silly signature authority if you live overseas and have signature authority over an employer account. Put in special higher limits if tax resident overseas and put in some same country exception for FBAR..
FBAR is not a tax. Changing reporting requirements then would not change tax receipts, and may ease burden on IRS and FINCEN in regards to their administrative costs.
Excluding accidentals should be revenue neutral as the IRS does not get any revenue from them anyway. Then this would be similar in some ways to territorial taxation for companies, placing further highlight on why it is not in place for other groups: why it is not in place for individuals. Relief for accidentals would help highlight why other overseas groups are not getting relief.
“Excluding accidentals should be revenue neutral as the IRS does not get any revenue from them anyway.”
It’s not revenue neutral. The IRS doesn’t get anything but the Department of State gets $2,350 from each.
@JC, “Raise limits ($10,000 to $100,000 and put in an inflation index), end silly signature authority if you live overseas and have signature authority over an employer account. Put in special higher limits if tax resident overseas and put in some same country exception for FBAR..”
The Secretary of Treasury has ALL that authority as it was granted to the Secretary when the law as passed.
Our problem developed because succesive Secretaries failed to exercise their authority.
Comments posted today on Republicans Overseas FB site. No Dem Senator submitted amendment on our behalf:
I have talked to an informed source in DC that seems to indicate that there was NO GOP or Democratic amendments for TBT/RBT that were ever seriously on the table. His advice was that if you want to see proof look to see if someone introduced a standalone bill to do so like Rand Paul did with Repeal FATCA.
@JC, as per http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2017/11/28/call-u-s-rep-holdings-office-today-at-202-225-3032-and-email-legislative-assistant-at-matt-strossmail-house-gov-to-ask-that-holding-continue-fight-to-kill-cbt-now-not-years-later/comment-page-2/#comment-8070411 and other avenues, we know that the IRS has the discretion to exempt classes of persons from FBAR reporting, and they have chosen not to, other than very limited subsets. I think that they could also change the reporting thresholds. That is only a bandaid on the tumour of US extraterritorial CBT but it would do something helpful. Why can’t a Trump Treasury Secretary do that?
The newest Treasury Secretary could make changes re;
recently explained that Section
5314(b)(1) granted it discretion to exempt certain groups from
the FBAR filing requirement and “[i]ssuing instructions for the
FBAR form is one way the Se
cretary may exercise this
Many commentators have noted that the current
FBAR form and instructions suffer many maladies, such as
complicated instructions, ambiguous definitions, outdated
terminology, and unnecessary duplication.
and see footnote 9 source (won’t cut and paste properly)
Hale E. Sheppard, ‘Evolution of the FBAR; WHERE WE
WERE, WHERE WE ARE, AND WHY IT
Read Sheppard’s entire journal article for important context.
More recently re problems re the FBAR, enforcement, application, etc.
Christians, Allison, Paperwork and Punishment: It’s Time to Fix FBAR (October 13, 2014). Tax Notes International, Vol. 73, 2014. Available at SSRN: https://ssrn.com/abstract=2510544
Is this something that the Republicans could choose to fix even if FATCA and US extraterritorial CBT is not repealed?
FBAR is not a tax, though the penalties have been used by the IRS as an alternative revenue stream to brag about instead of taxes which don’t exist – in convenient pretense of obtaining outstanding taxes from the ‘tax gap’ – where no US tax could even be assessed – because none owed, from outside the US.
Reminds me of how the State Dept. is apparently determined to turn those outside the US into an alternative revenue stream via the extortionate renunciation and now elinquishment fees.
Can’t the Republicans choose to put an end to those non-tax taxes in disguise through an administrative route? Though perhaps they won’t and don’t care about those who are forced to expatriate (no votes, no campaign contributions, no US homeland clout), and minnows with local ordinary accounts (limited votes, limited campaign contributions).
If the IGAs can subvert Congress’s FATCA law via Presidential decree, can’t FBAR application and thresholds and the renunciation fees be changed without Congress?
Just to be clear, I am not in favour of a comfier USextraterritorial CBT and the limitation of SameCountryException as the sole remedy, I’m not reviving that as a debate. But I am asking whether in the interminable interim, why can’t FBAR and reporting thresholds, and those required to file the FBAR, and the size of the extortionate (and unconstitutional) renunciation fees be changed without Congress or Senate, using Treasury’s and State discretion, under Republican appointed Treasury Secretary and whoever is in charge of the State Dept.?
I don’t know what would be involved in that, but seems to me that the current Treasury Secretary can do at least something re FBAR.
The thing is IRS doesn’t want ppl to live a happy life,Scare the fuck out of them and collect money for innocent mistakes.
@Jagz, apparently the IRS view is that anything goes, by hook or by crook – they’ve twisted the FBAR into an alternative revenue stream for themselves that doesn’t depend on assessing any US tax, and regardless that accounts are legal, local to the holder, and often already post-tax (in the case of accounts holding wages) and any interest would have already been reported to our local tax authority and taxed where we live and generated it.
The FBAR was never meant to be used the way they’re wielding it – as a weapon poised in threat over those with legitimate legal local accounts, and as a revenue generator to squeeze out revenue in lieu of taxes when they can’t succeed at assessing any tax from those outside the US.
I don’t buy the argument that those living outside the US are just by-catch. They’ve had time to tweak things like the reporting threshold, exempting certain classes of people from reporting, etc. They’ve chosen not to do any of that – which tells me that this is willful on their part.
badger – “The FBAR was never meant to be used the way they’re wielding it – as a weapon poised in threat over those with legitimate legal local accounts, and as a revenue generator to squeeze out revenue in lieu of taxes when they can’t succeed at assessing any tax from those outside the US.”
In practice, they don’t seem to be trying to do that, even to those with only US citizenship.
If anyone knows of a case in which a normal non-tax-cheating USC has been FBARred for not reporting a local account, I’d be interested to hear.
There are no such known cases, here or elsewhere. The damage is largely self-inflicted, from attempts at compliance. Collection outside the US would be difficult if not impossible.
“Collection outside the US would be difficult if not impossible.”
I agree. Also asking for trouble.
Everything is self inflicted when it concerns these issue, people completely off the radar, accidentals filing taxes after decades out of the system if they ever filed. fear of fbar, fear of confiscation of assets, always talking about this issue to friends and family even after you have renounced, maybe years ago even, always worried about what ifs, fear of the tax changes on foreign corporations. fear of entering the US, fear of the reed amendment. i could go on and on.
The reed amendment is a myth now, instead they have the exit tax, you either are a covered expatriate or not. that determines if you are leaving for tax reasons and they will take what they can, if you give them the opportunity.
How can people who don’t owe tax as most do be guilty of leaving for tax reasons? if they want to keep me out of the USA, i could not care less at this stage. I rather be free. The USA of my youth is long gone. now it is a tyrant government with sheep as citizens.
Just live your life free of fear. Don’t have any US assets and forget about all this nonsense. if your bank wants your social security number, only do what is necessary to keep your account and nothing more. get citizenship in your country of residence.
Don’t wait for any tax reform to happen. fight for change by all means but don’t make decisions based on whether or not change will happen. Ignore what doesn’t make sense or renounce and be free. Republicans can be disappointed all they want. the fact remains that even with change there was no guarantee that change will last your life time. there was always the threat that things could be reversed. so that would be another thing to fear if change had happened, fear of change being reversed.
Not that the threats don’t exist. just that we need to be stronger and live our lives with confidence not be bullied by the USA!