cross-posted from renounceuscitizenship blog
U.S. citizens outside U.S. – Not what they take from you, it’s what they leave you with – #CBTax #FBAR r destructive https://t.co/LthGIGjI3M pic.twitter.com/f8VkU7BLeT
— Citizenship Taxation (@CitizenshipTax) March 26, 2017
Going back to a general thread from a few weeks ago – on law and morality – this post speaks more to the effects of the law when it is not rooted in morality. On one level, an apologist might claim that “doing one’s duty” and “paying one’s share” is moral and is necessary to maintain funding and order in a society. However, when such a law is applied to those who live outside that society, as we all know from experience, unexpected conflicts, resulting punitive actions and penalties tend to denigrate the quality of life. We are not talking about “quality of life” amounting to physical comforts or financial wealth. By “quality of life, what is referred to is mental stability, emotional trustworthiness and the ability to move through difficulties with a sense of direction and confidence. When these parameters are stifled by confusion/lack of clarity of what is expected, and ridicule and negativity is directed toward those affected, the result is a not an issue of lack of compliance but rather, wrongly imposed requirements that simply make people anxious, immobilized by fear, depression and a general inability to adjust to the situation. How this can be justified when those same people ARE compliant in the society where they live, strikes many as simply being immoral.
*****
The Wisdom of Moe Levine Moe Levine (not that I ever met him) was considered to be one of America’s greatest trial lawyers. Although he died in 1974, his wisdom lives on his book (appropriate called) “Moe Levine on Trial Advocacy“. He (legend has it) was a master at delivering the closing statement in his jury trials. When arguing for a severely injured plaintiff he (according to the commentators of his time) would tell the jury (referring to a badly injured client):
“It’s not what you take from them it’s what you leave them with.”
In other words, the inability to live a normal life was worse than the injury itself. Leaving aside the financial costs, Obama/IRS tyranny has had a very serious effect on the lives of many U.S. expats. Few of them will ever forget the day they learned about these problems. One (of many) example is the story of Ambassador Jacobson’s 70 Year old grandmas” in Saskatchewan.
A recent post offered people the chance to describe how recent events have impacted on the lives of U.S. citizens outside the U.S. Check out the comments – there were plenty of them. Yesterday a post appeared on at the Isaac Brock Society called “Your Citizenship Personality“. The comments included a number of descriptions of how the recent Obama/IRS/Levin assault on U.S. citizens living abroad has damaged their lives. I encourage you to read all the comments, but I wanted to share the following two (the second of which is my own) in a separate post:
fullTurtle
I’ve been a lurker on this site for over a month. I’ve never “blogged” before today. I am not a writer, nor as eloquent as most you and am woefully ignorant of all this tax and legal stuff. In these 30+ days, I have read every single thread on this site and have visited every link offered. I have read the entire “OVDI Drudgery for Minnows”, all of the personal stories, and have even printed out pages & pages of suggestions and opinions (thank you so much, JustMe!). But I can’t take it anymore… this being silent and feeling so estranged and “criminalized”. The only place I feel connected anymore is while I’m reading postings from all of you. After reading zucchero81′s comments on this thread (“…this whole FATCA issue has been more like going through the 5 stages of grief…”) I feel compelled to peek out of my seemingly safe lurker shadows. You have it right, usxcanada… I am one of those lurkers wondering if/how to transition past pure denial. I have yet to make a real decision (which would require real action) on what the heck to do. My gut reaction is to run fast, run far, hide deep. But the more I read, the more that is sounding impossible to accomplish. I have chosen “fullTurtle” as my alias because doing a “full ostrich” would leave far too much exposed at the surface. Since becoming aware just 6 weeks ago (and purely by accident) of my requirement for filing US taxes… then FATCA and all the rest, my whole life has turned upside down. I can think of little else. I’ve attended a free seminar on the subject of cross-border taxation given by a high-end legal accounting firm in town (can you say ca-CHING?) and have spent the vast majority of my waking hours researching the subject. All I seem to have done is become almost catatonic with dread. I swing wildly between the extremes of near homicidal rage and suicidal depression. Okay, I’m more in the homicidal phase today. To get back to the topic of this thread, I want to renounce my citizenship so bad I can taste it. And thanks renounceuscitizenship; I agree 100% with pretty much everything you’ve posted, and I visit your site regularly too. It would be so worth the $450 USD just to fling my passport & birth certificate down at the US Consolate and tell them exactly where to shove it. When the day comes that I can renounce (my Canadian citizenship application was mailed Feb.6th so it will be 18 mo’s to 2 years), I will write that cheque on a shirt, duly certified by the bank of course, and explain it to them thusly: “Seeing as the US Gov’t is taking the shirt off my back, I thought you might like to keep the shirt.” In ending this tirade, I am so grateful to ALL of you regular posters who have unknowingly kept me from jumping from a tall building (so far). And especially you, Petros, for creating this web site. You have no idea the number of people you are helping give voice. I hope someday to add my story to those of you who have survived this holocaust. Okay whew, if I can do this… the rest of you lurkers out there can do it too!
@Fullturtle A warm welcome to the Isaac Brock Society. It’s a great place – with a lot of great people. It’s interesting how the comments often move the intent of a post in a different direction. What struck me about these comments is that one can feel the excruciating pain, the agony, the fear, the uncertainty, the despair, the anger, the rage, the sense of betrayal, and in some cases the unbelievably intense hatred of the U.S. government. I do believe that many people on this board have never experienced the range and intensity of emotions they are feeling today. As noted by Pacifica777: “This horrible gamut of emotions and mood swings seems to be universal, and statistically, I would guess that few of us have ever had to deal with such extreme feelings before, so it’s so unfamiliar that it’s scary. I have never felt such intensity of emotions and such a bizarre range of them, nothing close to it, ever. This US mess just takes over one’s life, feeling like caught in a complex trap, that it will never end. Though it’s not over yet, I have found as time went on, while I still feel an amazing range of emotions, they don’t seem to be so intense and overpowering. For a couple of months, it overtook all of my life — with such an overpowering complex confusing situation, it was hard to focus on anything else. Eight months on, it is still, unfortunately, a big part of my life, but slowly I’ve found more and more of my normal life, and my normal personality, returning. It’s still a big problem but not overwhelming everything else.” Blaze reiterates: “I’m hoping you are just joking in your comment about wanting to jump from a tall building, but I fear you may be serious. Another person has expressed similar disturbing thoughts. Many of us have had sleepless nights, health challenges, strained marriages and personal relationships, expensive accountants and lawyers who are draining retirement savings, difficulties at work, worry about Canadian born children, etc.” JustMe (in his infinite wisdom) has said that it is important to not hate. It will only destroy the person doing the hating. You need to be focused, methodical, purposeful and committed to achieving whatever course of action you decide is best for you. You said that you felt “criminalized”. I understand. If you are not careful, and if you allow yourself to feel “criminalized” long enough, you may actually believe that you have done something wrong. You have done NOTHING wrong (and chances are that you have done a lot right). You are on the receiving end of a vicious assault by an unprincipled vicious debt-ridden thug – The United States of America. I want to add one more thought to this moment of “collective psychotherapy”. There is good news and bad news. First, the good news. You do NOT live in the U.S. You live in Canada. You are in a situation that any sane person would dream to be in. Sure, Canada has its problems. But, lurking beneath all the problems is a basic assumption of fairness, justice and decency. I repeat you live in Canada. In addition to the good things I just mentioned, you have the benefit of the tax treaty. Canada will not collect FBAR penalties. Furthermore, (I don’t have stats on this), but I suspect that a large number of U.S. citizens here are also Canadian citizens (giving them political power). Second, the bad news. As horrible as this situation is (and it is a nightmare for most), you must go on with your life. At least in my case (and I suspect most of you) that life is a life shared with non-U.S. citizens. This is a very important point. The Obama/IRS/Levin assault cannot be understood by anybody unless they are a U.S. citizen living outside the U.S. To be specific, they cannot understand your rage and anger. They cannot understand your feeling of injustice. They cannot understand the intensity of your emotions. They cannot understand your sense of betrayal. They cannot possibly understand these things because they are not experiencing it (and probably will never experience anything like it). So, don’t expect the understanding from them that you really need. My point: You need to be very careful to not allow any of this to damage the valuable relationships in your life – friends, marriage, work, extended family, etc. We are in a situation where we are in a sense forced to protect ourselves from a repressive government. This is has gone on throughout history. Never did I believe, that government would be, (according to Margaret Thatcher) the United States –that “Great Citadel of Freedom and Justice”. But, that’s what is happening. I once met a man who had escaped from another repressive government. He wanted his children to be well educated – commenting that, the only thing that a government couldn’t take from you was your knowledge/education. It’s not the only thing they can’t take. They can’t take your attitude, or your capacity to tell right from wrong. Unless of course you let them (and we wouldn’t let than happen, now would we)! Take the weekend off from your worry. You deserve it. Renounce and rejoice!
So what am I trying to say? 1. There is no way the IRS can understand the effect of their conduct on honest, hard working people, who just happen to live outside the United States. They cannot understand it and never will. 2. Your job is to get through this and have the life you deserve.
Human beings rarely learn from their own mistakes, let alone another’s. Worse, is if mistakes are known-made, and unfelt, in the course of “a job requiring absolutely no empathy whatsoever”. AKA, IRS/USA.
I hate to say it but for anyone here waiting for anything to change– it isn’t happening. If your can raise the funds, renounce.
It’s an awful & bitter pill, I know. My family is of police, firemen, & military. I’m well-versed. And I’m sickened by what has turned out to be a scape-goating of the least able to sustain such an attack. But, of course, I believe that IS the game for the IRS– scare people & threaten them to try to scab money. It’s nauseating & cruel. Worse, that the USA mainland folks have no idea, & wouldn’t care, because they’re in an even worst spot, perhaps?
🙁
In the homeland, they really don’t tell you shit beyond what they want you to know. The government doesn’t tell you. The media doesn’t tell you. No one does.
It must first fit through a filter, which makes the message fit in with the American narrative, such as, “We’re the greatest country in the world….’ and blah blah blah.
Between the filter, and the indoctrinating narrative that they keep feeding you, they have homelanders in better control, than what the East Germans could do on their best day, even with the coercion of a gun pointed to your head, and with radios locked into state propaganda.
The biggest difference? Most of the East Germans knew they were being lied to, and they wanted out. The homelander American? They don’t know, and they don’t care. They’ll just take the blue pill as long as they can.
I was once a homelander. American born. I had the indoctrination, and I ‘saw’ the filtered things….heard the filtered ‘truths’. I dunno. Maybe I was too smart for my own good? Maybe curiosity got the better of me? Maybe it was the fact that the hype of American greatness didn’t measure up to the reality, once I got out into the working world? Maybe I still retain some bitter feelings from having Ritalin shoved down my throat as a child? Who the hell knows? It was probably all of those things put together. But in the end, all I saw was a growing sense of disillusionment, and I felt a growing sense of being lied to.
Once I took the red pill, and emigrated back in 2012, that was when I started learning the real truth. A lot of it was from Brock, too. But just as important is what you can learn from your own eyes and ears, starting with how the news media here doesn’t try to pump me full of fear and bullshit, to where you’re afraid of the outside world.
There are reasons why homelanders express such hate and envy towards those that get out, and a large part of that, is because it goes against the grain of the American narrative, which I’ve since learned is all a bunch of malarkey anyway. However, it is perceived as a threat nevertheless, because why would anyone want to leave? So, those in government have a strong incentive to make our expat lives as miserable as they can. Doubled by the fact, that they don’t have to care, because more people immigrate into the USA, than leave it. Their propaganda is really that strong.
In the end, once you take the red pill, and see the naked truth, you really don’t want to return. For me, there is nothing to go back to anyway, other than frayed family ties.
It is what it is. Evidently, all roads outside the USA ultimately lead to renunciation, so renounce and rejoice.
I could also add, is that another part of what probably fuels the homelander anger and envy, is that many of them know deep down, that they’ve been lied to, and either they can’t really admit it to themselves, or they don’t have the either resources, and/or the knowledge, to get out.
I can do what they can’t? That’s got to breed a lot of resentment on their part! 🙂
just look at their lousy and uncaring healthcare system. what to expect then?
The onus is on us. We have been so dumb as to elect National Politicians who had little or no understanding of the Folks. The Folks are the rank and file guy who just out of rote runs to the polls and votes for a candidate a political party has put forward. They promise to fix the problems if we will just give them one more term.
I wonder how many voters who have stopped to think,”now these are the people who caused the problem whilst we were paying them and whilst they were plying themselves with lavish benefits”.
We thought we were doing the opposite when we gave the House of Representatives to the Tea Party Republicans, but alas, they can’t resist the temptation to take the ”K” street lobbyists money, for their next campaign. They become ”creatures of the swamp” that is Washington D.C. and demonize anyone who attempts to drain an ounce of water from the ”sacred swamp”.
Thinking people outside D.C. have known all along that the 16th and 17th amendment to our founding document was introduced and promoted by avowed Marxist and their descendants have profited handsomely ever since.
We also know the founders discussed the merits and demerits of taxing incomes, but opted to stick with tariffs and duties as the means of funding our government and it worked very well until the remaining Marxist’s got control of our government and got what they wanted and that was to share without effort to earn it,all the incomes of the citizens. And share they have. The latest ploy is to go to each foreign country and put the screws to them, so they will be compliant in their theft efforts thru FBAR.
The movement to pass the FairTax is growing and surprise one fine day the current house members will find they have no jobs and with that no power.
The FairTax when passed would ;
1. abolish the IRS.
2. Stop the Death Tax.
3. make every citizen have a stake in the game.
4. Tax the 50% who now are living from the fat of the land, and not even filing a tax return.
5. Give the working poor an immediate 37% increase in pay thru the prebate and no FICA with holding
tax, from their paycheck. It could be greater if the poor would buy used goods, since only new goods are taxed under The FairTax.
6. An army of informed IRS workers, could turn to some worthy pursuit and leave us alone.
We got Marxist, we got FairTax, but missed Constitution. As Meatloaf once said, two out of three ain’t bad.
@Polly
….and how they think it’s the best health care system in the world, even though it’s complete and utter rubbish. Nope. No one’s going to tell them any different.
While Canada’s system is not perfect, and what I have is really Ontario’s system, I’m at least not bankrupted for my wife’s care regarding her MS, plus she also has home care – all at minimal cost to us. If we were stateside, we would be bankrupted, and the best we can hope for, is the crummy insurance of last hope, which would be Medicaid. We might not necessarily get that even, depending in which state we would happen to reside.
And no. They really don’t care at all.
I will never forget the treatment my father got, when he had a stroke, and died 11 years ago. Here was a man that busted his ass to keep a roof over our heads, worked most of his adult life, even served his country. In the end, he died broke, without insurance, and his basic humanity wasn’t even acknowledged. It was made more a point his lack of insurance, and his cigarette habit. That was what was supposed to matter – a ‘lack’ of personal responsibility, so why even care?
More like, bust your ass off for nothing, was the lesson I inferred from that.
Here’s the kicker. They offered him a clot busting pill, nearly 30 minutes after the window to take it, apparently a three hour window at that, was already expired. What the fuck? It really took that long to do a CT scan? Did they even bother?
My mother to this day, says she’s convinced that she got the best care available. I haven’t the heart to set her straight. What can I say? Why risk reopening old wounds? It wouldn’t accomplish anything. It wouldn’t bring him back to life.
Damned if I’m going down like that!
@ Folks
My. Having read the above, do any of you have any cheery words for the three plaintiffs?
Sometimes, it is really hard reading here and maintaining our positivity. Just saying.
I can assure you the three of us are 100% empathetic and take each of your shared stories very seriously. And we would never want you to stop expressing yourself. Because each story has a lesson, each is valuable.
Having said that, there are days like today, where it all seems……
Ginny, you’re one of my most highly esteemed heroes. I’m very sad that you’re feeling down. I’m sure most of us feel exactly the same way.
@Canadian Ginny.
Cheery words #1: Its now officially spring. Snow is an enda
Cheery words #2: Although Trump is President, at least he’s not president of OUR country.
Cheery words #3: In spite of its occasional flaws, at least we have a health care system. I’m not sure what it is they have down there, but its certainly not a health care system.
Not sure what happened just then (fat fingers, I guess) but I meant to say snow is an endangered species for the time being.
@Nononymous. I thought he was talking about sex, drugs, and rock and roll. (Meatloaf, not Wilton) Come to think of it, are we supposed to count rock and roll as one, or two?
@Canadian Ginny
All I have is, “Don’t let the bastards grind you down!”
https://youtu.be/yZNnbeNjMxw
@Ginny @Gwen @Kazia
Thank your lucky stars you aren’t American!
@maz57
It’s amazing that a government would want to deliver a health care system based on less healthcare. Maybe they should call it HNC – Health Not-Care.
@Ginny @Gwen @Kazia
I’d tend to agree with Bubblebustin. We need to be grateful we are Canadian and not American! We have protection for Canadian citizens from collection efforts from the US/IRS. We have a better health care system. Of course the Canadian government and other governments are fearful in standing up to the large elephant south of the border. That’s why many of us support you in the law suit.
As mjh49783 says “Don’t let the bastards grind you down!”
@Ginny….some would say the following is not cheery but spitting words.
You already know my private background…………
George is so proud having been allowed to stand with and support you and your colleagues.
There are two paths to the history books and you will be a footnote in either of those paths. In fifty years time I will be dust but you will have done something great.
You will secure victory in a Canadian Court or it will be your actions that bring the Trump Administration to the table. One of those shall happen.
My oldest teen is doing two things because of you. First, the savings for a CLN has stopped as relief is in sight, the path is yet fuzzy but its because of your effort one way or another. Two, your personal story has led an expat teen to decide study law…yes your story that I sat down one night and had a heart to heart chat about.
You refused to take a seat at the back of the bus and because you refused so did I and because I refused so have my kids. Had you not stepped forward I would have gone to the back of the bus without question.
Ginny through this miracle of the internet you have touched my soul and my family. This man is ever thankful.
@Canadian Ginny
The actions of you, Gwen & Kazia will always be appreciated and never be forgotten. Hope this cheers you up (I used to love watching it in the 1980’s when I was up late studying and CBC would go off the air):
I am sorry if it came across as seeking gratitude from anyone- that wasn’t my intention. In fact it is the opposite.The three of us owe you so much gratitude for being in this with us and permitting us to represent you.
I often feel frustrated because there are so many still living in fear and desolation and regret and so far we have been thwarted to move towards our goal due to the delays brought about by our government.
It is not just frustrating it is unconscionable. The delay is not on our part. In fact, last October, we were prepared for our Examinations and provided dates that we were available to be examined as asked by the Federal lawyers and then nothing! Now a motion to compel further documents which they have yet to set for a hearing even though we are also ready for that.
In the meantime, people are being hurt and fear for their security and financial futures, which upsets me greatly. Kazia, Gwen and I are so proud to be able to represent you and intend, with our lawyers to do that to the best of our abilities. You all deserve nothing less.
So the best way you can cheer me up I guess, is to send me your patience genes- mine have gone missing. I knew this was going to be a slow and long process, but I thought the government would approach this case the same way they handle any other law suits against them.
Justice delayed is Justice denied. Their actions are speaking very loudly to my ears. For one of the few times since I was called to the bar, I am embarrassed by members of my profession.
In the meantime, they are giving me further examples to discuss with them during examinations of the harm principle they are adamant we demonstrate: every day we hear of more people who are forced to renounce their citizenship or rearrange their lives in a way that is devastating and demoralizing to them.
This is the result of immoral laws, coupled with inexcusable trail delays.
People matter. You matter. Lives matter. Our courts are here to ensure that ordinary citizens have the right to challenge laws they believe violate their rights. The Justice Department is not above the law and if they believe so strongly in the merits of their case position, it is their duty to bring this matter forward or minimally, not delay it further.
As a member of what I still believe is an honourable profession, I apologize to you on their behalf.
@mjh
No don`t tell your mom. No sense in that now. I dont think she needs rage besides her mourning.
Healthcare is run FOR PROFIT in America. Making money off of sick people, as filmmaker Michael Moore said so distinctly. It is a shame. And so is FATCA and so much more. It is even a shame that the legal suit is being delayed so long.
It is all about the money. Always. What I am saying is that capitalism should be held accountable by some sort of check and balance system, and tempered with some sort of socialism to help those citizens in need. Some sort of caring. But a society which lacks caring? Even the educational system is flailing because nobody cares there either, and that bodes darkly for the future of a nation.
I feel your frustration, Ginny. The only honour that could possible be associated with the government’s stall tactics is that the IGA is essential for fighting offshore tax evasion, yet the two women I spoke with at the CRA agreed with me when I said Canada isn’t getting anything it didn’t have without it, short of protection from economic sanctions. It’s deplorable that the Canadian government is upholding an agreement which strengths lie solely on something the US may or may not do!
Can you explain what the government stands to gain by stalling, when by doing so it creates more harm against more people?
@Polly
Indeed. It’s an utter joke to try and have a free market in health care to begin with.
If I’m having a heart attack, am I going to be busy shopping for the best hospitals, and with the best cardiac surgeons in the nation, so that I can get the best bang for my buck? C’mon! I would be unconscious, and dying! Unable to make any decisions at all, let alone the type of blade that will crack my chest open! Only in America would this train of thought make any sense.
Don’t have insurance, and you need life saving treatment? Tough shit! Preach about personal responsibility, offer a scathing judgment, and then let them die. What the hell?!? What does that nonsense even have to do with the free market? Just a heartless kick in the ass on the way out the door, is all it is. Who needs these people deciding on a health care system to begin with? Yet, that’s America for you.
Damn! I’m really grateful for being in Canada these days!
* No. I won’t be telling my mother my feelings on that particular matter. She’s getting pretty high up there in years, and the truth (as I see it) would probably kill her. I know how I feel about it, and that’s all that matters to me. If he couldn’t even get his own humanity acknowledged on his dying hour, then I know full damn well what I can expect for myself over there, and I just don’t need that.
@Canadian Ginny
Hey. Those are stress induced raw emotions, sourced from the emotional heartache of being placed in a bullshit state that you shouldn’t have to be in, and then having to endure a long fight, for what is right.
@Bubblebustin
Hell, I’m just thanking my lucky stars that I am Canadian. Still working on the renouncing and rejoicing part. Close to having the cash, but circumstances in my life could also impede my progress, far as getting someone to watch over the Mrs. while I’m off to do the damn thing.
@Bubblebustin
The answer is already in your first paragraph. They don’t want to be sanctioned by an imperialist bully, and now they’re caught between a rock and a hard place.
The US wants it’s people under its thumb, no matter where we are in the word, and since they think they’re the lone superpower in the world, they can coerce pretty much any nation it wants to, in any matter it wants to, to get what it wants.
We may think we’re citizens, but honestly, are we really any more than just glorified subjects under that regime? I don’t want to be a subject.
Well in my case, it was an extra 25 lbs. that I didn’t weigh before this mess. Apparently, I am an emotional eater. My friend renounced this pass week in Calgary. She was a mess after wards. She could not quit crying. Her adult children have appointments in the coming months and she is paying for their renounciation because she feels responsible for registering their births abroad. On the bright side, she told me she paid by credit card and got air miles. I laughed when she told me that, then regretted that I didn’t pay by credit card and get air miles.
For info, Jatras has updated his site over the past two weeks with more articles. http://repealfatca.com/2017/03/24/us-grassroots-coalition-calls-end-fatca/ There is also the possibility to donate funds to help with the lobby efforts to repeal FATCA.
This world today is a mess!
But awareness and knowing the right things to do to preserve you from the beast and why, gives you hope for the future.
And making as many people possible aware I am so they can act to protect their wealth. I am still really mad about FATCA, but not only, there’s worse like we’ll see below. Learning and sharing is the best moral support we can have.
So, first things first.
My life, like most, turned upside down when I received that FATCA letter from my bank in October 2014 (Left with my parents for England in 1973 age 7 years old and then to France in 1975 where I’ve lived ever since).
Never once thought of taking on French nationality, just did like my dad did (my mother is Dutch), renewed French resident card and US passport every 10 years, don’t have a US SSN number, have always payed my taxes to France where I live. Why take on French nationality anyway when you’re American? A citizen of THE greatest country in the world! Ha!
Common situation shared with millions of amercans living overseas…sigh.
Then, in October 2014, I got that dirty little illegal FATCA letter from my bank.
I immediately knew this was very wrong, especially as I saw the THRIVE movie on You Tube in august of the same year.
Nevertheless, I only then discovered that USA practices CBT, what ????????????????????????? For zero services in exchange ???????????????????????????? (all consular services abroad are payed for by fees and no, no black helicopter is going to come and save you. I saw with my own eyes on the news here in France an american couple saying the US embassy in Paris did not want to let them in during the Paris terrorist attack at the Bataclan!).
I quickly found the Isaac Brock Society blog and started reading.
It gave me moral relief to read similar stories and to find out that at least some were sewing their government in court for signing the IGA, Bravo (still can’t get over that Swedish/American guy who committed suicide because of FATCA, unjust things leading to acts like that really make me angry).
Many thanks to this group.
I also found late in the evening (couldn’t sleep) the famous “America from freedom to fascism” movie on You Tube that clearly explains why the federal government in DC IS NOT allowed to directly tax american individuals born in one of the 50 states protected by the US constitution. Only the state where you live can tax you to pay for all the local services needed, which is normal. That’s how George Washington, Jefferson and others crafted USA after fighting the British Empire for tax reasons.
16th amendment, the tax amendment, never ratified by the 50 states, creation of the private financial federal reserve corporation in 1913 etc…
The next day I tried to call the IRS office in Paris, they didn’t answer, lucky for them because I was going to tell them to go fly a kite on Mars. Me afraid? You must be kidding me. I’ll kick the sleeping dog all right, always have, always will. During WW2 I’d probably have been a Ba Ba Black Sheep lol.
The next day I found and called ACA in Paris and after listening to me carefully the person on the phone said “Ask for french nationality, don’t renew your US passeport and never go back!” (can you imagine that? 24 hours ago it was great to be american, how lucky I was bla bla bla…and now it’s like being a slave to be american!!!).
“That’s fine with me I replied” and then said “we all know who’s behind all this”
“Who?” she said
“Rothschild, Rockfeller, JP Morgan and their corporate federal reserve and IMF mafia” I replied.
“Yup” She said and then we hung up.
Boy, did she give me good advice. Do nothing!
Soooooooooooo glad I did nothing and still am.
My thought was “My god, we’re living under a financial mafia & war machine!”
That FATCA letter really woke me up to the world we are really living in and I got mad, angry, furious to find out democarcy is just a myth.
The complete contrary of what they teach you in school and say in the media!
But then, it all belongs to them…
These same people created the IMF and the UN in 1947 to begin to take over the rest of the world…
Invading countries that could not defend themselves to steal their riches and putting all the others in deep debt in order to plan to steal their riches also when they default on their debt, just what the British lords did to the Scottish. “Can’t pay back, well, give me a piece of your land then”. That’s exactly what they’re doing in Greece now.
And, by reading free media like Kingworldnews, I found out that they have planned the greatest hold up on us human beings in history, something that is a lot worse than FATCA, something that concerns all nationalities, everyone. Something decided at the G20 meeting in November 2014 in Australia, something called “The Dodd Franck Act” in north America and the “BRRD Directive in Europe”. 6 European countries still refuse to put it in place.
Basically, these directives allow banks in difficulty to bail in by robbing their client’s savings and accounts so states don’t have to bail banks out by lending them money!
Very well explained here: http://investmentwatchblog.com/bank-deposit-bail-in-law-is-biggest-threat-to-average-usa-g20-savers-hsbcs-james-steel-gold-is-a-highly-regarded-asset/
That is also the purpose of FATCA, raise money even if it’s with unfair penalties! Damn them.
We, who are experiencing FATCA know that they WILL bail in on the money in our bank accounts.
Yup, the BIG ONE, the greatest financial crisis in history is about to take place. 2008 was a joke, they are planning it and it’s about to happen.
Read full post : http://kingworldnews.com/greyerz-get-prepared-a-massive-global-collapse-is-coming/
With the situation this world is in today, hadn’t it been for FATCA, I would not know either. So thank you FATCA. Now I’m happy you came around. Because now I know that renouncing citizenship to avoid FATCA won’t protect my wealth from a bail in!
My father, who was a financial consultant for companies, banks… always told me “Steven, never forget that the money that’s in the bank, banks think it’s their money”. Now I know why he did.
With FATCA and Obamacare it’s no wonder Trump was elected!
To bad he wasn’t able to repeal Obamacare, just one more proof of the corporate lobbying taking place in Washington DC, and of course, all around the world. And all that against us the people!!!
So lucky for me FATCA has forced me to debankerise (live without a bank account, just a buralist account).
And here’s how it happened.
I had a forced Rendezvous with the director of my bank in march 2016. First, she asked me some strange questions like “Do your children have US citizenship?”
“No”
“You’re house is worth about …….. Right ?”
“Yes”
Until she came up with “Ok, now I’m going to bother you with something you don’t like” and she asked me to fill out a W9 form!
“I don’t fill out illegal forms” I said.
“What do you mean by illegal?”
“Madame, do you fill out a French administrative document without a legal number on it?”
“Of course not” she said.
“Neither do I, you see, there’s no OMB number in the upper right hand corner of your document there”.
Her jaw dropped….”what the”.
Then I explained why the federal government in Washington DC is not allowed to directly tax american nationals born in one of the 50 states and that the 16th amendment was never properly ratified.
She didn’t know what to say lol !
And then I said “Anyway, with the new bail in rules it’s best to get the money out of the bank and buy gold coins”
She was flabbergasted that I knew about the BRRD directive and to my surprise she said
“Yes, buying physical gold is a good idea, ok I’ll tell my superiors why you refuse to fill out the W9 form”.
They know the whole system is coming down…
That’s why they created FATCA and the bail in rules…..because they desperately need money to keep their Ponzi system going as long as possible. Just think of it, they probably even think our money is theirs just because they printed it!
On 14th of June 2016, I had my Rendezvous for my French nationality 🙂
Nevertheless, beginning july 2016, we got 3 letters from our bank saying they’re closing my personnel account, my wife’s personnel account and my professional account! (we weren’t married but we had what they call a pacs, a contract almost like a marriage contract). That’s how afraid banks around the world are of the 30% FATCA penalty on their US source income. But hey, I’ve got news for them, they need the money so badly that when the next financial crisis comes up they’ll find ways to impose the FATCA penalty on banks anyway, don’t worry, be happy.
I was ready for this so we acted immediately.
The next morning we went to a buralist and opened up an account, not a bank account, just an account with a MasterCard, thus not subject to FATCA ! Vive la France!
We depacsed immediately.
She bought my company and hired me as an employee to be able to open a new bank account for the company in order to keep the business going.
And I bought gold in a private Swiss bank with my savings for retirement where no state can get their hands on it!
ISN’T IT GREAT TO BE AMERICAN !!! lol, can’t help laughing…what a joke. And to think so many naïve people still want to immigrate to USA, poor things…
So now I’m really free because I’m OUT of their dirty financial banking system.
Thank you sooooooo much FATCA.
Even if FATCA and CBT go away, I’m never opening up a bank account again in my life!
They can take their booby trapped financial placements and stick em up their a..
I learned two lessons from the 2008 crisis.
1. The value of gold tripled from 2007 to 2012!!!
2. Real estate lost around 30% during the same period
Meaning selling a home for 100 000 $ and buying gold in 2007 would have enabled you to buy 4 homes in 2012!
And that, my friends, is one of the ways the rich get richer during a financial crisis, which is why they provoke one every 8 to 10 years.
Just remember one thing, in 1913 an ounce of gold was worth 4$ and with 4$ you could buy yourself a nice costume, or dress.
Today, with 4$, you may just get a pair of socks, but with an ounce of gold worth 1250$ you can still buy yourself a nice costume, dress…
The dollar has lost 97% of its value since 1913. And the more they print, the less it’s worth. So now, how much do you think they’re going to print with the coming crisis? Lots? Maybe not, knowing they can rob our savings and bank accounts with their bail in rules.
Just look at what’s happening in India, Brazil, Greece, Cyprus, Italy… Who’s next?
Wait and see….but meanwhile, take action to preserve your wealth OUT of their booby trapped Ponzi banking system.
This is mainly what I’ve learned since October 2014 thanks to FATCA.
I sincerely hope this will help all you desperate individuals affected by FATCA. Now, think positively, take action and share what you’ve learned so others can protect their wealth too.
Very hard times are coming, those left unprepared are the ones who’ll suffer the most.
FATCA is just the tip of the iceberg.
When I go into town and see all these people who don’t have the slightest idea about all this I think “my god, this world is going to be a real mess soon”.
The more we are prepared, the better for everyone.
And yes, like mjh49783 said, US homelanders are far, far, far away from imagining what’s going to hit them.
Best to all of you.