Last night I found myself in a discussion with a U.S. dual citizen. Basically, what she told me was that since she learned of the IRS assault against dual citizens that she felt that “her life had been stolen from her”. She listed a list of health and emotional problems. Furthermore like “a deer frozen in the headlights” she doesn’t know what to do. She is reaching retirement age and fears that her retirement savings will be taken. (By the way, she didn’t know about FATCA. I didn’t add to her misery.)
The “emotional and life aspects” of (what has become) the “War of 2012″ are rarely mentioned. How has this affected your life?
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We had a delicious, warm and peaceful Christmas Eve. After an hour of shovelling snow, I made a special dinner and then we spent hours in front of a roaring fire listening to “oldies”. I was grateful for all of that but then came Christmas Day.
I woke up very early with an anxiety attack (not the first, likely not the last, luckily does not happen often). Instead of visions of sugar plums, my head was spinning with what seemed like a hundred questions and zero answers. What if the USCIS never approves my I-407? What if an IRS agent phones? What do I say? What if I receive a demand of some sort from FinCEN in the mail? What would it say? What if it only gives me 10 days to respond? What do I respond with? What happens if don’t respond? What would be the likelihood of finding a lawyer in a small town capable of advising me? And on and on and on. Anxiety attacks are not rational obviously and they can happen at the most inconvenient of times. I also played over and over in my mind all the stupid steps we took in total ignorance and innocence to get into our IRS mess.
It doesn’t help that I haven’t been able to explain our situation to anyone outside of Brock without their eyes glazing over because most people seem to want a five minute summation which is impossible. At the end, they probably think we are idiots or we might actually be tax evaders. (We are not tax evaders but we were not form savvy and that is what could wipe out our retirement savings.) Of course people do express sympathy but this is too complicated, too nuanced to expect anyone to really understand. I don’t try to explain anymore.
With my anxiety meter stuck on high it was inevitable that the morning hours of Christmas Day would dissolve into silence between my husband and me when yet another “discussion” about our IRS mess ended with the words “I just can’t fix this!” and “Well I can’t fix it either!” Yet my mind was completely possessed by our unfixable problem. I knew I had to somehow bring my anxiety level down but my usual method of talking it out was not an option — not appropriate for Christmas Day.
The couch was piled high with comfy pillows and cozy blankets so I thought I’d try to sleep away the anxious thoughts. Even snuggled into that soft, warm cocoon there was no sleep, no relief for me. It was wash, rinse, repeat all my questions, doubts, fears — a seemingly endless loop.
The afternoon of Christmas Day was sunny and ordinarily I’d be out the door to enjoy a walk but I couldn’t bring myself to open the door and go out. The fridge and cupboards were stocked with Christmas treats but I couldn’t open those doors either. There would be no walking AND no eating that day.
I tried doing mundane household chores but the physical effort was exhausting me almost as much as my mind was exhausting me. I barely completed the few chores I attempted.
I looked to the computer for help. I tried all the usual “soothers” — Gregorian chants, 528 Hertz signal and even going to my favourite vacation location site (just a dream, there will never be an actual trip). The slide show of flora and fauna at my dream destination always leaves me smiling but not this time.
The usual “soothers” were a bust so how about complete distraction? I went to all my daily sources for information on the internet. At least I think I did but I don’t remember a single article I read that day. It was info IN and info OUT. I might as well not have bothered. There was room for only one thing in my brain — our damn IRS mess. It would not budge.
Another attempt at relief was to feed the anxiety beast with truth and reason until it would burst and blow away. I caught up on Brock and watched the FATCA Fact Finding Forum videos. I certainly recognized them as being excellent but I just could not concentrate. I watched the words and images flicker on the computer screen before me but I absorbed little, if anything at all. (I will definitely be watching all the videos all over again. They deserve my full attention. And of course I will read the transcripts provided by calgary411 and pacifica777.) The beast did not blow away.
Then it was bedtime and a last ditch chance at some sleep. My body was leaden by that time so surely sleep would come. It didn’t. I tossed and turned for an hour and then got up so my husband could get some sleep. I went back to my couch cocoon. I got up frequently during the long, sleepless night to look at the moon and the night sky. It felt like I was in a prison cell with a view.
Boxing Day arrived and I was able to begin to fill my empty stomach and wait for some strength to return but It turned out there were still more hours to go before the anxiety attack would subside enough so that I could finally fall asleep for any length of time. I pretty much collapsed into bed the night of Boxing Day and at last I was able to sleep. The anxiety attack was mostly gone but not forgotten when I woke up the next day. I had pulled through but I left another 3 pounds behind (it is ridiculous to LOSE weight at Christmas) and I’m afraid that like the other pounds I’ve lost this past year, I may never get them back.
If this is all too depressing for what is supposed to be a festive season then I don’t mind if the site monitors delete it. I only wish it was as easy to delete the memories of IRS induced anxiety attacks. However, I’m thinking that if there are other Brockers who have similar experiences they might like to know that they are not alone. They say misery loves company. Anyway, not to worry, I am fine now (eating, sleeping, walking, talking) and I hope that any anxiety prone Brockers like me are fine too. They also say all’s well that ends well.
@Em, you weren’t the only one, though that may not bring you any comfort to know. I had to take a break from IBS and the like, partly for no real internet access, time, and also for my own mental health. Sleeping for me is always fractured by breaks caused by spinning thoughts – ruminating over the problem, anxiety, fear of the many unknowns, etc.
Downhearted at the seeming lack of political will in Canada to confront the US extraterritorial-citizenship-based tax monster, and US arrogance, and just say – NO, hand’s off our Canadian citizens and permanent residents. Hands off our Canadian born children.
@em and @badger
Thanks for “reactivating” this thread with more reflections the real life emotional traumas of this “IRS jihad” Don’t you wished, you could compartmentalize like Bill Clinton, and reduce the stress of those thoughts?! I keep saying, “this too will pass”, but it is too easy an answer to the strain all of these issues put on people. Hang in there, and thanks for making me go back to this thread for a new does of empathy!
*@Em, I also have been suffering from chronic and even renewed anxiety, especially with me now also considering renouncing. It also doesn’t help that I am still in two minds about it. I am less frightened than I was last year about being hit with FBAR fines from FINCEN on my doormat or an aggressive IRS audit; but am more scared of possible unintended consequences if I renounced.
I am scared that things are not going to get any better and could even get worse; I am scared that renouncing could raise red flags and thus the risk of an audit or FBAR fine. I worry that I could face being harassed at Customs with a CLN; I worry that if the US could pass retroactive legislation to make life harder once again for former US citizens by either reinstating de facto US Personhood or making it difficult to even visit. I share Petros’ anger about how we’re essentially forced to give up our birthright in order to be able to survive where we live.
My family are sympathetic about my troubles but would be upset if I could no longer enter into the United States; They appreciate that I am upset but don’t fully realize how encompassing all this is…I still think they believe I’m being hysterical and over-reacting to potential threats. My spouse is supportive but growing tired of me going on and on…
Christmas can, of course, be a stressful time of year anyway! I suspect that you will get your greencard successfully cancelled. They are probably going to focus on whales and blatant tax evaders anyway. I suspect that a lot of what we’re suffering from is bluff but that sadly, many of the OVDPers jumped into the net due to sheer panic plus bad professional advice.
I was earlier on today watching documentaries about the Holocaust and of how the Jews didn’t at first believe that things would get as bad as they’d get. Many fell into a false sense of complacency before it became too late to be able to leave. This is where I’m torn as to whether i should leave now or hold on in case things might improve. Just no easy answers.
I know that I will never be quite the same ever again, even if I do get through all this. It’s been so traumatic and life-changing. Up to early last year, I’d always believe the USA was a force for good and hadn’t been aware of all the potential collateral damage it can cause.
If I had known what I know now, I could have organized my life differently by just keeping a simple savings account and perhaps a few single stock holdings in blue chips instead of going into foreign mutual funds and a private pension plan which could still potentially be deemed a foreign grantor trust and all that nonsense…but unfortunately, once these sorts of retirement plans are set up, they’re impossible to close down, at least in Great Britain, so there’s no turning back. I feel nostalgic for back when I was just a poor student without any complicated financial planning that I had entered into quite innocently as a bona fide resident and even citizen of Britain.
I have grown cynical and now no longer blame people for just wanting to live in the moment instead of saving for retirement. I almost wish I hadn’t bothered…so embittering!!
We are adults who take our responsibilities seriously. Because we are, we are proactive and seek viable ways of remedying our problems. We have and will continue to make mistakes, some more regrettable than other. We are fortunate to feel compassion, and we attempt to help others in each our own way. With all of this will come many sleepless nights, but likely not as many as we would have if we would try to run from our problems.
I seethe constantly over the IRS invasion of my life! If the extent of the US government’s care about me is to hunt me down and to render anything they can get out of me then they are only worthy of my disdain for now and forever. If I try to identify what’s been stolen from me by the IRS, I would have to say it’s any respect I have for the United States of America, for any nation to inflict this kind of punishment on its own people is irreconcilable.
*@Bubble, exactly. It’s as though they’re too big a country to able to worry about small fry like us. It seems that only BIG MONEY and power/fame really counts for anything over there. One rule for the BIG PEOPLE and another for mere mortals like ourselves,
All I can think is that whatever happens, money is not EVERYTHING. I’ve got to try and not keep dwelling on all this so much or it’s going to continue affecting my health and relationships. I suspect more and more that most people who file honestly are not going to be hit with harsh penalties, though realize this will be small comfort to someone like yourself who’s already joined the OVDI program. I know of virtually no other US expats living in England who are having any problems with the IRS. Of course, I realize that this could change with FATCA.
What I’m essentially going to have to decide is whether I want to keep my dual nationality so I can continue to easily visit America and know I can go back to live permanently if i so desire; it would mean I could maintain closer relationships with my family and old friends. I could still go back there to work if I decided to. But at the cost of burdensome compliance and accounting fees each year, plus restricted investment opportunities. So no easy answers. It’s not a black and white decision, at least for me.
@monalisa
No other citizen of any other country on earth has to ask themselves whether they should renounce in order to survive and weigh what USP’s must against doing so. Any other citizenship by comparison lets you wander the earth unfettered and welcomes you back if you so choose. Land of the fee, home of the brazen.
@Em,
My god, I’m so sorry that is the way you’ve spent your holiday days. I send you big hugs. As you know, I relate. As you know, so many of us relate.
Is this torture not a human rights issue? I have just finished the transcription of Abby Deshman’s presentation. I have drilled into my head, her words. I understand how it took her, an “Accidental American”, so long to come around to her realization of this being a civil liberties issue. I understand that it is going to take so much to get it onto anyone else’s TOP TEN issues, in that it has, they think, nothing to do with them.
We all relate to those rolling eyes or looking over our heads when we talk of this. We have to keep on trying. In fact, I’ve sent another email to the Canadian Civil Liberties Association c/o Abby Deshman, asking them to have another look at my son’s / my family’s situation, which I was previously told they could do nothing about. Another issue is what this is doing to so many.
I’m a dog with a bone that just won’t let go.
@bubblebustin,
I agree with you — I too have complete disdain for what the US has done to my family, to your family, to families who don’t know yet (I fear for them).
Respect and trust are forever gone. Once lost, it’s gone. The time for divorce is long over.
@calgary411
Cheque please!
@bubblebustin,
It’s in the mail — as was mentioned in Abby Deshman’s presentation, by Professor Christians in response to an answer on what happens to the money in your account that will be closed if your are “recalcitrant”. I’m as recalcitrant as one can be these days, I guess.
*I sympathize with all of the recent comments. I too, find myself obsessing with and upset by this situation every day. Will it get better when my CLN finally arrives? I don’t know. I’m just so upset with the injustice of it all to all the people involved that I may not be able to let it go. I’ve been trying to keep a sense of humour about it, but that’s becoming harder and harder to do.
*em your ‘problem’ was fixed a long time ago. Firstly they were never going to bother you. Then they received an I 407 from you. I imagine the reaction was ‘WTF is she bothering us with this for? Let’s file it in the round file.” I know it’s hard for you to let go but you must come to the understanding that they have no further interest in you.
calgary411 – For some reason, your brief reference to being recalcitrant sparked this new thought of an offensive (vs defensive) tactic. Imagine a US person who has shed that dread status, but forevermore bears the stigma of a US place of birth. Someone in this position, with the guts and stomach and patience, could wreak havoc on an incoming FATCA system by refusing to certify nonUSpersonhood by any means other than direct personal verbal assertion. Suppose the lilylivered FFI then designates the person recalcitrant. The nonUSperson warrior then sues the hell out of the FFI, and if it goes to court, beats the FFI over the head with the CLN proof, and seeks appropriate civil damages for unequal treatment etc. This would require careful set-up and pro bono legal support. One case is all it takes. Possibly just a groundless fantasy of the day, but one with some fun to it.
*@usxcanaca, regarding a bank’s legal right to close one’s accounts, at least one bank (CIBC) and probably all of them have a clause like this in their personal account agreement:
“CIBC may freeze or close your Account without notice if required by law or if at any time CIBC has reasonable grounds to believe that you did or may commit fraud, use the Account for any unlawful or improper purpose, cause a loss to CIBC, operate the Account in a manner unsatisfactory to CIBC or contrary to CIBC policies, or violate the terms of any agreement applicable to the Account or any account-related service. CIBC may also freeze or close your Account if you are a victim of fraud or identity theft in order to prevent future losses.” [emphasis added] See https://www.cibc.com/ca/apply/disclosures/pers-acct-agreement.html
That seems to eliminate any chance of suing them successfully for closing the account of a recalcitrant “US person”. If FATCA does go through, with or without an IGA, the only chance for US persons in Canada to maintain banking services without giving in to the IRS would seem to be to find a bank or credit union that doesn’t deal with the US at all. I don’t know if such a beast exists, but maybe there’s an entrepreneurial opportunity there.
Here’s an even scarier clause in the same personal account agreement. It makes me want to look for another bank already, except that I’m sure they all have the same clause:
“Third party demands. CIBC will comply with any lawful third party demands that it receives in respect of your Account without notice to you. You agree that if CIBC complies with a third party demand, it may charge its reasonable costs to do so against your Account, as disclosed in the Disclosure Documentation.”
AnonAnon – Yah, that cute little cause a loss provision all by itself could justify almost any sort of frivolous unilateral action, couldn’t it? I just got an idea and started riffing. Resistance is conceived in the imagination and born in action. Sometime that gap does not get jumped.
*@AnonAnon,
Of course such a ‘beast’ exists. Don’t rely on one FFI for all of your banking requirements. Geesshhh people, where are all the suggestions as to HOW TO FUCK FATCA, as opposed to freaking out that they are all going to get us. How do we use our smarts (other than the obvious tactic of defeating FATCA which goes without saying), to defend ourselves?
*Anybody interested in starting an Isaac Brock Credit Union?
*@WhiteKat, using multiple FFIs might not work if the Canadian government agrees under an IGA to pool all the information for all of the Canadian accounts held by each US person. Who knows what the current government may be willing to offer in exchange for, say, approval of the Keystone pipeline?
*WhiteKat, Anon Anon. Now we’re talking. There is no mechanism under the regs for Canada to do any such thing.
*FATCA and the rest are part of a continuing trend of governmental attempts to control citizens. When governments become secretive in their decision making and even lie to the public, as the US has been doing at least since the 1960s and the Harper government is doing now, it is very dangerous for the survival of democracy and fosters paranoia among the citizenry. I am definitely not pro-gun, but I can understand why many people in the US think they need to buy guns to protect themselves from their government. I, too, feel personally threatened by the growing US garrison state and the apparently increasing collaboration of the Canadian government with it. The point is: Who knows what our governments are planning secretly, and until we do, how can we trust them? Do they know how dangerous it is for all of us that they are losing our trust?
*Corporate secrecy and control by the super-rich are also part of the problem for democracy. (See the excellent essay by High Mackenzie
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorialopinion/article/1308352–why-the-99-per-cent-still-matter-in-canadian-politics )
In the US, if not also in Canada, government and corporate secrecy collaborate as often as they conflict — witness the cooperation between US federal government and investment banks after the financial disaster of 2008. Initiatives like FATCA, ostensibly aimed at the super-rich, actually target many people who are far from rich. The super-rich will always be able to hire the help to look after their wealth, and many politicians seem to aspire to join their class or at least benefit from their friendship. It’s soft targets like US expatriates of modest means that they both seek to fleece to finance out-of-control government spending that, as often as not, benefits large corporations in the “defense” and “homeland security” industries.
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