Liberty and justice for all United States persons abroad

The Isaac Brock Society

Posted on by Posted in Issues regarding US persons abroad 2,207 Comments

UPDATE SEPTEMBER 19, 2015: SEE ALSO DISCLAIMER AND LITIGATION UPDATES.

[This post, which began in May and having over 1000 revisions and 2000 comments, is being retired from service and updates. It lived through the success of reaching a total of $500,000 in donations from our kind, dear supporters who had little money to give, the hope and disappointment with the summary trial decision, and the certainty that we are now finally moving on to the Charter trial.]

CANADIAN CHARTER TRIAL UPDATE:

— We have instructed the Arvay team to prepare for the “Constitutional-Charter” trial. This means that our focus now, as it was in the beginning of our lawsuit, is on the Charter trial.

Unless there is a new expense in the future that we have not anticipated, the monies from your donations will be sufficient to take us through the “constitutional-charter” trial in Federal Court. However, to pay other legal bills we will need additional donations from our supporters, and a request for donations will appear on another post soon.

OUR LITIGATION HISTORY:

One year ago, on August 11, 2014, Litigator Joseph Arvay filed a FATCA IGA lawsuit in Canada Federal Court on behalf of Plaintiffs Ginny and Gwen, the Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty (en français), and all peoples.

Because of a Government delay we initiated a “summary trial”, using a portion of the arguments, which offered the possibility of preventing private banking information from being turned over to the IRS before September 30, 2015. See Alliance’s Claims, our Alliance blog, and AUGUST 4-5 SUMMARY TRIAL FILINGS in LITIGATION UPDATES.

2,207 thoughts on “We are now preparing for the 2016 FATCA IGA Charter trial in Canada Federal Court”

  1. Well I just got back from an NDP gathering hosted by my riding’s candidate, Larry Koopman. Invited to speak and fundraise was Peter Julian, opposition leader in the House of Commons. I was able to grab his ear for a moment. He told me that he’s spoken to the U.S. Ambassador to Canada about FATCA and was told by the ambassador that he’d go to Washington to try and fix things. I almost burst out laughing and told him that was a waste of time and that as things currently stand, the only thing that’ll stop the IGA is court action either here or in the U.S. I made him aware that Elizabeth May has made FATCA repeal a part of the Green Party’s election platform, which I don’t think he was aware of. I suggested that the NDP do the same and that Murray Rankin’s letter to a few constituents isn’t enough. I think he got a little indignant as he then said that the NDP has done more to fight the IGA than any other party, and dismissed the input made by Ted Hsu and Scott Brison before the SCF as insignificant. He also said that he has no recollection of Elizabeth May having ever spoken out against it in parliament. I disagreed and said she in fact has on at least one occasion. He was aware of the lawsuit here in Canada and that a ruling is expected soon. I said that I’d like to get back to him to hear his answer about what a NDP government would do to prevent the U.S. from sanctioning our banks while protecting the rights of individual Canadians, should Justice Martineau rule against the government.

    I don’t think I made a friend, but he’ll remember me I’m pretty sure when He hears from me again.

  2. Kudos to you Bubble!! We All need to get out and make our voices heard and let others know what the hell is going on here. Canadians are being attacked and we are fighting. Thanks for speaking out!!

  3. @NativeCanadian

    You’re welcome. It should be relatively easy to get in the candidate’s faces now that they’re out campaigning in our ridings. Take advantage of it! It’s a whole lot better than waiting for an email response that never comes.

  4. Bubblebustin: This is for Peter Julian who has no recollection of Elizabeth May ever speaking member Elizabeth May speaking against FATCA in Parliament.

    The Green Party was the only party that had a representative at the FATCA Forum in December 2012 even though all parties were invited.

    In March of 2013, Elizabeth May and the Green Party issued a news release that FATCA is a threat to Canadian rights and sovereignty.

    http://www.greenparty.ca/en/media-release/2014-03-05/fatca-threat-canadian-rights-and-sovereignty

    She wrote to me in March of 2014 linking me to an article she wrote on FATCA

    http://maplesandbox.ca/2014/letter-from-elizabeth-may/

    Elizabeth May spoke out against FATCA in the House of Commons a few times.

    http://maplesandbox.ca/2014/fatca-in-house-of-commons-yesterday/

    http://maplesandbox.ca/2014/elizabeth-may-speaks-out-against-fatca-again/

    http://maplesandbox.ca/2014/elizabeth-may-continues-fatca-fight-in-house-of-commons/

    Elizabeth May also somehow managed to speak against FATCA at the Finance Committee on the day the vote was taken on the proposed amendment even though she is not a member of the Finance Committee and could not vote there. (16:15 on the video)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slqAkW_eeUA

    She spoke against FATCA again the night the vote was taken in the House of Commons. There may have been other times.

    I think Hsu and Brison’s questions were significant, but I agree the Liberals have been far weaker than the NJDP in fighting FATCA. However, considering that Elizabeth May’s time to speak in the House is limited and how often and strongly she did it, I think she has been even stronger than the NDP.

  5. Calling all Calgary area Brockers: http://www.ndp.ca/event-calgary

    Thanks — we’ve reserved your spot at Tom Mulcair in Calgary.

    Share this event and ask your friends to join you.

    Tom Mulcair in Calgary

    Tuesday, September 15th, 4:45pm – 5:45pm
    Calgary Confederation Campaign Office
    305 10th St NW, Suite 104
    Calgary, Alberta T2N1V5

  6. @Blaze

    Outstanding work, thank you for the many reminders of how Elizabeth May has been behind fighting FATCA from the beginning – that which I was reminded of when Mr Julian mentioned how he put Ambassador Heyman to task in Washington, conjuring up all the bad memories associated with being told to “sit tight” by the last one and how the U.S. wasn’t after Canadian grandma’s like me. Fool me once I say…

    I’ll keep your collection of links ready for when I can bring the subject up with Mr Julian again, should I need to. The NDP doesn’t have anything on the Greens when it comes to FATCA pushback really.

    @Calgary411

    It will be interesting to see how many Calgarians ride the orange wave!

  7. @bubblebustin

    Which of the following describe Peter Julian?

    a). Short memory
    b). Absent from House of Commons
    c). Playing political games
    d). Obfuscation
    e). All of the above

    Take your pick.

  9. Here are other sources of instances where Elizabeth May raised opposition to FATCA – feel free to send the links to jog Peter Julian’s memory:
    https://openparliament.ca/search/?q=fatca%20Party%3A%20%22Green%22&sort=date+desc

    http://www.greenparty.ca/en/media-release/2013-03-13/implementation-fatca-likely-unconstitutional-says-leading-constitutional-ex

    May obtained via FOI and alerted the Canadian public to the letter of December 12, 2012http://www.greenparty.ca/sites/greenparty.ca/files/attachments/peter_hogg_fatca.pdf written to the Cons by Peter Hogg – constitutional law expert
    http://www.greenparty.ca/en/media-release/2013-03-13/implementation-fatca-likely-unconstitutional-says-leading-constitutional-ex

    The Green leader also put this up on the party website for all to see
    http://www.greenparty.ca/en/statement/2013-01-28/backgrounder-canada-and-fatca

  10. Bubbles. I suggest an email to Julian summarising \ linking all these wonderful reminders of Elizabeth May’s efforts.

  11. @nervousinverstor

    Mr Julian heard me when I said he was wrong about Elizabeth May. As much as I’d like to prove how wrong he is about her, at this point rubbing his nose it it will only get me ignored. I went up to him for a second time as the meeting was about to break up and asked him if I could contact him after Justice Martineau makes his decision and he gave me his card. He seemed genuinely interested in hearing from me, so at this point I’d prefer to build on that next time he hears from me. If however Ms May’s efforts come into the conversation, then I’ll be ready to bring him up to speed. Thanks, Blaze, Badger.

  12. @Bubbles, that sounds like a great plan.

    All of us are getting more sober minded in strategy or rather more cold and calculated which is in fact good.

  13. @George

    As a citizen of a country you love, being betrayed by your government for the sake of corporate interests changes a person – often in only a moment.

    When under fire, shooting ourselves in the foot isn’t a good strategy.

  14. Further to http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2015/08/27/99929-needed-in-94-more-days-to-make-the-100000-august-4-2015-payment-for-canadian-fatca-iga-lawsuit-il-nous-reste-99929-a-ramasser-pour-notre-poursuite-judiciaire/comment-page-84/#comment-6546248…

    Since I may not have the opportunity to speak and, if I do have an opportunity, it will have to be short, I have this one-page hand-out for this afternoon at my NDP Candidates’s office with NDP Party Leader, Thomas Mulcair.

     

    September 15, 2015

    This morning, I read a news article headlined,

    *Court Fight to Stop FACTA Impacts Every Canadian*

    However, few Canadians know about FATCA and how it impacts every Canadian.

    Few *U.S. Persons* in Canada know how U.S. FATCA law implemented in Canada will affect them, their Canadian spouses, their Canadian children and/or their Canadian business partners, as well as U.S.-imposed limitations for their retirement planning.

    *They are now 2nd-class to any other Canadians resident in Canada –

    no matter where those *other Canadians* were born or the national origin of their parent(s).

    I reject our now being defined as *U.S. citizens who happen to reside in Canada*.

    I reject that my Canadian-born adult child who has never lived in or had any benefit from the U.S. (AND OTHERS LIKE HIM – and there are / will be others) is entrapped into extreme yearly administrative costs of U.S. tax and bank account reporting compliance because the U.S. will not allow him (them) to *renounce* (at a present fee of US$2,350) an acquired, non-meaningful and without their consent, U.S.-deemed U.S. citizenship.

    e.g., The U.S. Consulate in Calgary, correspondence from the U.S. Department of State/Legal and advice from a Washington, DC immigration/nationality lawyer* after discussions with DOS in Washington gave me the same information — all regarding *acquired* U.S. citizenship (though never registered).

    *Department of State (DOS) persons have “sympathy” for such cases. However, the developmentally disabled person will have to have FULL understanding of what he’s doing; if any question of lack of comprehension and grasping meaning and importance of ramifications, they could NOT approve such a case. From DOS point of view, U.S. citizenship is precious and they have therefore established fundamental requirements for “compelling reason”. Even though there is the risk that a person’s financial resources could run out before his/her life was over, they will never approve a renunciation for financial / economic reasons. DOS has NEVER had such a renunciation case approved due to “compelling circumstances”. (I could sue but persons he talked with at DOS are SURE no one would ever win such a case as the courts view the discretionary action that DOS has would take precedence).

    There is needed legislation, Canadian and/or U.S., that makes sense for anyone affected by U.S. citizenship-based rather than Canadian residence-based tax law:

    • to find the same exit out of the *U.S.-deemed U.S. citizenship* maze,
    • to be able to live their lives resident in Canada without discrimination,
    • to be subject to the same laws and rights as any other Canadian.

    Will the NDP Party make the IGA that implemented U.S. *FATCA* law in Canada an important issue?

    Will ALL Canadians have the same laws and rights?

  16. @ calgary411
    The handout is a good idea. Mr. Mulcair may not even take any questions but if he does do you have a short one for him? Good luck and thank you for Brocking his boat.

  17. Re: Today’s opening comment to this post by Stephen Kish…
    “Depressing article in Canada’s National Post this morning entitled ‘The high cost of freedom’. The article, written by Marni Soupcoff, head of the Canadian Constitution Foundation (CCF), bemoans the fact that Canadians ‘… have to rely on millions of dollars [in donations] just to assert the rights guaranteed to them by the Constitution’.”

    Anyone care to go round the irony circle?

    How was the Canadian Constitution Foundation started?
    “In 2002 BC lawyer John Weston established the Canadian Constitution Foundation (CCF) ‘to explain the role of the Constitution in [Canadians’] daily lives, to teach them how to recognize infringements … of the Constitution in the world around them, and to help them defend its principles from improper decisions or actions of governments….’ ”
    https://books.google.ca/books?id=f65oEtTp2PgC&pg=PT112&lpg=PT112&dq=Canadian+Constitutional+Foundation+John+Weston&source=bl&ots=6xgYZKwwh7&sig=rCi7-gig3lVxfUC5VYibTHB7t00&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDoQ6AEwBWoVChMI8Oms9bT5xwIVjJyICh0mnQjk#v=onepage&q=Canadian%20Constitutional%20Foundation%20John%20Weston&f=false

    How does John Weston honour Canada’s Constitution as a Conservative Member of Parliament?

    “…I [John Weston] have personally invited a top US tax attorney, the former Dep. Commissioner of the IRS to Ottawa”
    http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/05/01/john-weston-mp-invites-former-irs-deputy-commissioner-to-canada/

    and

    “I [John Weston] am thrilled to report that on February 5, 2014, Canada and the United States signed an inter-governmental agreement under the longstanding Canada-U.S. Tax Convention.”
    http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/03/06/a-letter-from-john-weston-regarding-the-iga-we-need-to-educate-the-mps/

    Hence the ADCS Constitutional lawsuit (funded by donation), which loops us back to Stephen Kish’s opening comment.

  18. My short question(s) are at the end of the page.

    Mr. Mulcair,

    Will the NDP Party make the IGA that implemented U.S. *FATCA* law in Canada an important issue?

    Will ALL Canadians have the same laws and rights?

  20. I have been back for some time from the gathering for a stop by NDP Party Leader, Thomas Mulcair, at the Calgary Confederation riding office. I’m glad I went. It was a packed venue, with many people also congregated outside to listen. Tom Mulcair may have been in the packed room for all of 15 to 20 minutes and it was a lot of rah, rah, sis boom bah stuff. The only questions came from media in front of the room — I wish that he had answered a few of their questions more directly. He was better at answering than Justin Trudeau when I saw him (perhaps last year), but both of these Canadian party leaders seemed to fit *politician*, true to the definition in knowing how NOT to answer the question.

    Too far back to blurt out my questions and I tried to force myself through to hand Mr. Mulcair my prepared hand-out. But, another Calgary Brocker and I each were able to give copies to two of the NDP contingent travelling with the NDP Leader.

    I was able to briefly talk with George Smith, the Leader’s Press Secretary (george.smith@ndp.ca). He knew exactly what I was talking about as I asked him to please, please have the NDP make the IGA that implements FATCA law in Canada an important issue as so many *US Persons* who will be affected still did not know. He understood BECAUSE he, too, is a US citizen in Canada! To talk with someone who really understands is always a big satisfaction for me and gives me feedback that no, I am not a crazy lady. A lot easier than my communication with others — but when that produces results, it is golden.

    My hand-out got into the hands of the Calgary and Banff/Airdrie NDP candidates there and I was able to talk to a few of them after all the hullabaloo ended. I think they know a little bit more than they did about this issue before this evening’s gathering. I introduced myself to the NDP candidate for my riding, Kirk Heuser, and will see if he does now follow up to contact me to discuss this issue.

    No, I still don’t know who I will vote for — everything in me so far says that Elizabeth May should be the one, but will that be a wasted vote for the goal of seeing the Harper government gone?

  21. @ calgary411
    George Smith, Press Secretary and FATCA afflicted — glad you made contact with him. And two more NDP candidates are now at the start of that steep FATCA learning curve. My NDP candidate, Alison Thompson, has shown her interest too. You did well. Drip by drip …

  23. @Calgary411

    “No, I still don’t know who I will vote for — everything in me so far says that Elizabeth May should be the one, but will that be a wasted vote for the goal of seeing the Harper government gone?”

    I guess it depends on who’s leading in your riding. The best way to defeat the Conservatives is to vote for the party best situated to defeat them. My riding has been Conservative for a very very long time. I’ll need to vote for whoever is second in the polls even though they may not be my first choice.

  24. Marie,

    Though I do like the Liberal candidate in my riding, Matt Grant, I would have to hold my nose to vote Liberal. He does have a good chance of overtaking this new (but Conservative held area) riding. I HATE having to vote this way but, of course, I have the same goal as most here.

  25. @Calgary 411

    Same here, despite the NDP sign on my front lawn. Liberals are probably the only one’s who stand a chance to defeat the Conservatives in my riding

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