UPDATE SEPTEMBER 19, 2015: SEE ALSO DISCLAIMER AND LITIGATION UPDATES.
[This post, which began in May and having over 1000 revisions and 2000 comments, is being retired from service and updates. It lived through the success of reaching a total of $500,000 in donations from our kind, dear supporters who had little money to give, the hope and disappointment with the summary trial decision, and the certainty that we are now finally moving on to the Charter trial.]
CANADIAN CHARTER TRIAL UPDATE:
— We have instructed the Arvay team to prepare for the “Constitutional-Charter” trial. This means that our focus now, as it was in the beginning of our lawsuit, is on the Charter trial.
Unless there is a new expense in the future that we have not anticipated, the monies from your donations will be sufficient to take us through the “constitutional-charter” trial in Federal Court. However, to pay other legal bills we will need additional donations from our supporters, and a request for donations will appear on another post soon.
OUR LITIGATION HISTORY:
One year ago, on August 11, 2014, Litigator Joseph Arvay filed a FATCA IGA lawsuit in Canada Federal Court on behalf of Plaintiffs Ginny and Gwen, the Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty (en français), and all peoples.
Because of a Government delay we initiated a “summary trial”, using a portion of the arguments, which offered the possibility of preventing private banking information from being turned over to the IRS before September 30, 2015. See Alliance’s Claims, our Alliance blog, and AUGUST 4-5 SUMMARY TRIAL FILINGS in LITIGATION UPDATES.
From Bloomberg BNA article:
Nice. Isn’t info due to flow BEFORE Sept. 30th?
Thank you Calgary411, you rock on the archives.
Yes, it’s going to be a very looooooong September 🙁
Thanks Calgary411. I understand now why Jackie Bugnion finally gave up on ACA since Marylouise Serrato has clearly become addicted to DA’s brain-rotting safe harbor Kool-Aid. Not that ACA’s affinity for the Democrats was ever any big secret, but honestly, who do they think they’re fooling?
Well, we have to find something to talk about while we’re waiting for these judgements to be handed-down.
@Deckard1138 ACA also had a lot of tweets saying safe harbour is “bi-partisan” while only 4 of perhaps 22 members of the House Americans Abroad Caucus are Republicans. Maybe they think this may be “a foot in the door” from which they may widen. Safe harbor should include FBAR fines/reporting and expemption of lots more such as retirement accounts etc.
So basically… if we don’t get a decision before 23 Sept… we are screwed… once the info is released & then we get a stop order… what will the US do… delete what they got… Make believe they didn’t get it… by 23 Sept before 5 pm… every alphabet of the gov’t…. on both sides… will have the info at hand… or say… oops… hd crashed… so sorry… we lost it all… can u send it again… yeah right…
Jackie Bugnon gave up on ACA????
Predictions to idle away the time????
I tend to think the US Courts will be a lost cause because they are just so political now with political appointees. Just because a Judge has a JD degree does not mean justice is blind to them!!!
I think on 30 September we will fall short with the US Court with no injunctive relief. Partly for political reasons and partly because homelanders do have an extraterritorial mindset as long as its them being extraterritorial. This is NOT a reflection on Team Bopp.
In Canada, I hope we get the verdict on 13 September and not a week later!! I believe the Judge made his mind up rather early and its now putting ink to paper. I would have loved to listen to the CD but from the court room feedback I think the Judge will slam the government. Judges of any stripe in any country do not like folks from outside their country messing with their laws. The Harper Government also has a bad track record with your Supreme Court and I would think this Judge will want to end up on the right side of the argument with the Supreme Court.
I am also strengthened that the Judge says a bare order will be issued with later full followup and think that is positive for us and not the government. The government needs only a straight verdict, we need a robust opinion.
I also think from feedback that the Judge is reading forward into the Charter Challenge and knows the fish is rather ripe and past its sell date. If he thinks its going to fail on Charter reasons, I believe he will be more likely to find fault on the technical treaty issues.
Assuming the verdict is positive in Canada, that will change the responses you get from the Liberals and NDP. The shark effect of blood in the water……..if the IGA is going down they will be strutting around with I told you so…………but right now they are being slightly coy.
Now I do think a victory in Canada MIGHT influence the USA Judge because if the IGAs are going to collapse overseas, why not collapse on them from the USA.
Though less important, I am glad the USA decision is after the decision in Canada.
A victory in Canada will have a ripple effect around the world because it will create “doubt” in the minds of politicians and treasury officials around the world, it gives us a crowbar to start ripping the agreements apart. We will have something to point to with similar law in other jurisdictions.
In regards to the Same Country Safe Harbor? Its all a smoke screen because they are not making daily, weekly and monthly progress. If they were going to do this, the Secretary would have already done it as it is in his powers to do so. People need to start calling DA and ACA on the carpet and tell them that this is a smoke screen to protect Democrat politicians!!! Looks like a pile of___, smells like a pile of-___, has a swarm of flys like a pile of______. In less than one year, two different organizations have funded and now had first set of trials……what has ACA and DA done?
Meanwhile, tens of thousands of defenseless accidental americans are going to be savaged by condors first and then the USA second. They are not going to know what hit them.
This whole FATCA/IGA ediface can not stand worldwide. But I think its going to take four years for a worldwide collapse of it. We need more and more anger and horror stories. Those that keep low in the bunker will be able to come out of the bunker in four years, but you will have to keep away from incoming damage and be wise.
In this context “safe harbout” means more dangerous discrimination. Safe Harbour would not save a US Person in Greece or Syria or elsewhere who needed the protection of banking outside the country of residence and who therefore banked in London or Zurich or Rome.
As many here understand, safe harbour does not cure the FATCA problems but merely gives politicians a p r flag to fly to dazzle people with deception.
Safe Harbour is dangerous to people’s lives and assets.
Glad to hear that the US Judge is serious enough to know that he needs to rule in September. However can he or she b made aware that a ruling in late September will not stop the permanent damage being done. Can he not b informed that he may need to do a temporary injunction early whilst he considers the permanent injunction order.
Actually we have *three* decisions being awaited in September. The UN Human Rights Committee supposedly reviewed our Human Rights Complaint during the week of August 17-21. That organization is extremely slow in notifying petitioners of where they stand. It took four months to receive even an electronic acknowledgement that our submission had been received and ten months to receive official notification that our submission was in the queue awaiting review.
We are planning to contact the UN on September 21, one month after they were supposed to have made a decision on whether or not to accept our case. It’s anyone’s guess as to when we will receive any news.
September will be a very interesting month with the three decisions pending. I tend to think the USA is a lost cause but hold out hope for the United Nations and the Canadian Federal Court decision with Justice Martineau. It would be historical if the tide was turned against FATCA here in Canada.
@ George
That was one of the best analysis I’ve read — calm and clear and I hope on the mark. I’ve read a bit about the court system in the USA and it generally does not rule in the best interests of the citizenry. I don’t have a good sense, yet, of where on the spectrum our Canadian court system might be situated. However, I think it’s somewhat encouraging to note that Justice Martineau was appointed to federal court BEFORE Harper became PM. There has never been so much “wait and see” in my life as there has been in the past 3 years or so. The only thing that helps is that I’m not alone.
Daniel Alfaro just provided us with yet another example of why we must sail right on by that “Safe Harbor”. He is in FATCA created, banking quicksand right now.
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/relinquishing-acts-performed-prior-to-2004/comment-page-2/#comment-6482236
EmBee: Thanks for alerting us to Daniel Alfaro’s story. I’ve asked if he will allow me to include it in my next supporting document for the UN Complaint. I can’t describe my anger over such an elderly man having to spend his remaining life dealing with this disaster. It just makes me sick.
The Daniel Alfaro report is a clear example of the evil that is FATCA … and CRS for that matter.
I dont know which South American country the gentleman resides in but he defines it as dangerous (“caracterized by violence and political inestability” sic) …. how disgraceful it would be should the European country which hosts his disabled child’s trust fund start to report that Trust to his country of residence. Some countries, in the last 50 years, have been known to persecute, prosecute, imprison or even execute people for such things.
How can peace loving fair minded people permit such things as FATCA and CRS in a time when refugees worldwide are at the highest volumes in EUROPE and the Middle East that they have been probably since WWII. Are our Governments insane ?
@nervousinvestor
I read something yesterday that bothered me greatly but I am not sure if it true or not….
Countries that are offering aid to the Refugees are trying to finger print & photograph them before giving them aid such as food and shelter…. the Refugees are refusing…. Sad to say… I would do the same thing… I would refuse the id process also… People are running from unsafe situations to place themselves in a more dire situation by doing the ID process
@USforeign person
Maybe the countries just want to make sure they are not feeding and harbouring terrorists who will kill people in the near future….
I find it interesting how specific the most recent status update on the case is, as provided at:
http://cas-ncr-nter03.cas-satj.gc.ca/IndexingQueries/infp_RE_info_e.php?court_no=T-1736-14
Most of the time these updates have been incomprehensible legal gobbledygook. This time, though, they lay out the situation in very plain language:
Letter from Defendant dated 03-SEP-2015 advising the Judge that the CRA now intends to commence transmitting information to the United States on Sept 23, 2015 in order to comply with the Sept 30, 2015 deadline. received on 03-SEP-2015
I find it very interesting that, in making the current update available on the Court website, the Clerk has chosen to speak so plainly this time.
As posted elsewhere on Brock: Another brick in the wall.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/11848172/Chinas-new-oil-contract-signals-shift-from-Brent-and-US-dollar.html
@US_Foreign_Person says
September 6, 2015 at 1:47 pm
“Countries that are offering aid to the Refugees are trying to finger print & photograph them before giving them aid such as food and shelter…. the Refugees are refusing…. Sad to say… I would do the same thing… I would refuse the id process also… People are running from unsafe situations to place themselves in a more dire situation by doing the ID process”
I agree with you. The refugee MUST be worried that the photo, fingerprints and other data will find their way back to Syria or wherever and be used to identify and persecute family and friends left behind.
I often say that People cannot have Freedom without Privacy. Governments Must be Transparent.
@ nervousinvestor
Just to be clear … the refuges are escaping the ravages of a war which is a direct result of the invasion (under the guise of “revolution”) of ISIS or whatever their next name will be. ISIS is an under-the-table, US-backed group of murdering thugs which were deliberately sent to Libya, then Syria and beyond to create chaos. It’s ISIS that the refugees would not want their identities revealed to. With the ability of ISIS to use the internet to its advantage (no doubt with help from its covert friends) this ID process presents a grave danger to the refugees. What confuses everyone is that the US has deviously declared it is out to strike down ISIS, while providing them with a fleet of Toyota trucks, air dropping supplies (weapons and food) to them and being most unhelpful to forces which ARE actually trying to strike down ISIS. What a horrible mess and I pity the poor people who get caught in the middle and become victims of all sides.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.ca/2014/10/us-helping-isis-one-accidental-airdrop.html
@Polly
*Maybe the countries just want to make sure they are not feeding and harbouring terrorists who will kill people in the near future….*
From what I understand… after the id’ing process… they are placed in a refugee camp with aid… which is usually located in the middle of nowhere… angry people who seem to feel that they have been short changed in their lives & treated like trash… want to exact revenge…
This is very very scary. Best to lay low at a Credit Union. Avoid the border. Stay hidden.