UPDATE SEPTEMBER 19, 2015: SEE ALSO DISCLAIMER AND LITIGATION UPDATES.
[This post, which began in May and having over 1000 revisions and 2000 comments, is being retired from service and updates. It lived through the success of reaching a total of $500,000 in donations from our kind, dear supporters who had little money to give, the hope and disappointment with the summary trial decision, and the certainty that we are now finally moving on to the Charter trial.]
CANADIAN CHARTER TRIAL UPDATE:
— We have instructed the Arvay team to prepare for the “Constitutional-Charter” trial. This means that our focus now, as it was in the beginning of our lawsuit, is on the Charter trial.
Unless there is a new expense in the future that we have not anticipated, the monies from your donations will be sufficient to take us through the “constitutional-charter” trial in Federal Court. However, to pay other legal bills we will need additional donations from our supporters, and a request for donations will appear on another post soon.
OUR LITIGATION HISTORY:
One year ago, on August 11, 2014, Litigator Joseph Arvay filed a FATCA IGA lawsuit in Canada Federal Court on behalf of Plaintiffs Ginny and Gwen, the Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty (en français), and all peoples.
Because of a Government delay we initiated a “summary trial”, using a portion of the arguments, which offered the possibility of preventing private banking information from being turned over to the IRS before September 30, 2015. See Alliance’s Claims, our Alliance blog, and AUGUST 4-5 SUMMARY TRIAL FILINGS in LITIGATION UPDATES.
Thank you for the reply. I posted it on the ISAACBROCKSOCIETY.CA website.
https://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2015/05/03/99929-needed-in-94-more-days-to-make-the-100000-august-4-2015-payment-for-canadian-fatca-iga-lawsuit-il-nous-reste-99929-a-ramasser-pour-notre-poursuite-judiciaire/#more-39061
Let me warn you of the faux pas in your reply:
You call these persons “Americans living in Canada” when many of them are
more accurately called Canadians living in Canada. Especially since they
are classified under Canadian law as Canadian citizens only, having shed
their U.S. citizenship upon taking the naturalisation oath, but under a
foreign country’s laws, they are citizens of that foreign country, whose
laws should end at the international line.
I would suggest a press release on the issue after you consider the
issues discussed in the ISAACBROCKSOCIETY.CA website or perhaps have
a chat with the Brocker bigshots. BTW there is no Isaac Brock Society,
it is only the name of a website, but there is an Alliance for the
Defence of Canadian Sovereignty at ADCS-ADSC.CA
Tom Alciere
Should end at the international line, but…
This is what, though, Canada Citizenship and Immigration says: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?q=356&t=5
Blood not boiling enough to get out and put that donation in the mail or Paypal?
How about this – latest proof (as if any more was needed?) that the IRS does not respect taxpayers nor does it or can it safeguard their information – which now under FATCA will make vulnerable the personal and financial data of millions of those deemed to be ‘taxable USpersons’:
‘Why should anyone trust what the US government says on cybersecurity when they can’t secure the systems they have full control over?’
..”..The agency that has been singled out for some of the worst criticism in recent years is the Department of Homeland Security, the agency that is supposedly in charge of securing all other government systems. The New York Times reported this weekend that the IRS’s systems still allow users to set their passwords to “password,” along with other hilariously terrible mistakes. .”..
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/24/irs-employees-password-no-wonder-we-get-hacked
Donate to the ADCS challenge http://www.adcs-adsc.ca/DonateADCS.html and help prevent a sovereign government from turning over the information of a million or more Canadians to an extraterritorial aggressor – the USA! Help draw this line in the sand to put Canada and other governments on notice that depriving their own citizens and resident taxpayers and accountholders to satisfy the US is NOT lawful or just and WILL NOT be borne. WE HAVE LEGAL RIGHTS and with YOUR HELP WE ARE PUSHING BACK against FATCA.
Donate to the ADCS challenge http://www.adcs-adsc.ca/DonateADCS.html
Say NO TO FATCA and US data extortion!!!
@Calgary411, “This is what, though, Canada Citizenship and Immigration says..”
That is a talking point and is not law.
Let me use my own example which is based in law.
Under the law of my Country I am also a Commonwealth Citizen and a Citizen of the European Union.
There is no mechanism in law to recognize anything else.
Further you can only have a single nationality working at any point in time.
I have said this once and will say it again, the citizenship issue needs to go to court.
@Calgary411, here is an example and I am sure Canadian law is similar.
In the UK,
From the British Nationality Act 1981.
You are either a Commonwealth Citizen, a British Citizen, an Irish Citizen a British Protected Person or an ALIEN.
““alien” means a person who is neither a Commonwealth citizen nor a British protected person nor a citizen of the Republic of Ireland; ”
—-
So called “Dual Nationality” is not defined in law and if its not defined in law it does not exist.
I will say again, this is not a tax problem its a citizenship problem.
I hope Joe Arvey drives home the point that USA Citizenship STOPS at the border for everyone in possession of Canadian Citizenship orrrrrrr those that have Commonwealth Citizenship.
Canada Citizenship and Immigration should be called on the carpet for what they have written!!!!
They should have written;
What is dual citizenship?
Every country decides whom it considers to be a citizen. If more than one country recognizes you as a citizen, you have dual citizenship. Dual citizenship is not something that is recognized in Canadian law.
You do not apply for dual citizenship and there is no related certificate. Citizenship can be imposed upon you regardless if you want it.
Canadians are allowed to take foreign citizenship while keeping their Canadian citizenship.
If you are a permanent resident but not a Canadian citizen, ask the embassy of your country of citizenship about its rules before applying for Canadian citizenship. When you become a Canadian Citizen, you will no longer be recognized as an alien in Canada, this also means that you will be unable to request the assistance of the Embassy of your other nationality.
From a comment I made earlier — US words, they are:
https://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2015/05/03/99929-needed-in-94-more-days-to-make-the-100000-august-4-2015-payment-for-canadian-fatca-iga-lawsuit-il-nous-reste-99929-a-ramasser-pour-notre-poursuite-judiciaire/comment-page-17/#comment-6146553
It can’t come soon enough…
@Calgary411, I love…..”Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with U.S. law,”
The USA is damn right when they boil down another so called citizenship as “Claims of other countries.” Its a CLAIM and thats a term you have been using quite a bit.
Dual citizenship is NOT another citizenship its simply a “Claim of other countries.”
And when we see “The U.S. Government acknowledges that dual nationality exists” that means the USA does NOT recognize any other nationality in the USA!!!
Your son is a Canadian Citizen and solely a Canadian Citizen who unfortunately is subject to “Claims of other countries.” Just like my kids…though as you know substitute around country names….
@Calgary411, here is a far better Canadian Govt site on the subject;
Warning you about tax obligations only if you TRAVEL there and LEAVE Canada;
“Should you choose to travel to your other country of citizenship, you should be aware of local laws and regulations that may be imposed on you as a result of your citizenship in that country. For example, you may be legally required to register for military service or you could have tax obligations.”
and
“Before leaving Canada, it is your responsibility to research the local laws to find out if you have obligations in the country of your dual citizenship, such as taxes, military service, or repayment of educational costs.”
http://travel.gc.ca/travelling/documents/dual-citizenship
As usual — Thanks, George.
I hope Joseph Arvay and his team will look at this spider’s web of absurdity.
And all they have to do is start paying commissions to snitches who can look up public information like this, to find out that you may have been infected with U.S. citizenship when you were born in Canada:
http://www.humphreysfh.com/Obituaries/92006/
@George
I think that also means “We can`t help you if you get into such a situation”
@Polly
Better translation…. its sucks to be you… you are on your own… enjoy your life outta of Canada….
Here is another thing… why do everyone assumes that everyone has internet…. elders in my family don’t use the internet… a mobile has to be forced on them… it must be the most simple mobile available… flip model with big old buttons… as similar to a line phone as possible…
@US_Foreign_Person:
Governments are getting nasty this way. I got a letter from the Commerce Department saying I had to complete a business census questionnaire, by law. I looked up the law and it said I was required, if they supplied me with a questionnaire, which they did not. They supplied me with the URL of a web form. If I have to withhold tax from employee pay cheques, it has to be paid on line. Why? What if the New York Transit Authority made its quarterly payments in quarters? So what if they do? If the U.S. Treasury was able to mint all those quarters, they should be able to take them back in tax payments.
@Tom Alciere
US is paper & form happy… in other countries… taxes take a few pages… doesn’t take hours to do it… In the US… its a frigging novel… that can take over a week to do… costs $$ to get a so called professional to do it… Some people have told me… when they read through the questions… they question if they comprehend english properly… sad part… english is their 1st language
In honour of Canada Day my latest cheque is in the mail to ADCS today.
@Tom
If it’s the BE- 10, non-residents aren’t required to fill it out.
I shall make a comment so this thread is no longer marked with the number of the beast.
US_Foreign Person: A study by the National Taxpayers Union, the U.S, Tax Coide is seven times the length of War and Peace and is more than twice the length of the King James Bible AND the complete works of Shakespeare combined.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/15/4-million-words-us-tax-code-seven-times-length-war/
That comment relates to Americans living in the United States. As we know, it is far more complex, convoluted and costly for anyone filing outside the U.S.
A lot of you know that my mother passed away in December of last year. We are selling off anything thaqt my family and my brother’s family have no use for in our situations. Yesterday, we sold her car to a good neighbor who needed one. The money from the car was split up between myself and my brother. I have a 6 year old daughter and my brother does not have any children. We both decided to give the money received for the car, to my daughter’s education fund. I went to the bank today to see what was required to open up a RESP account for my daughter. I was told that both myself and my wife would have to come in and see an investment banker and open the account. Due to my daughter’s age, we, the parents would be in charge. There are questions on the application of the applicants “US person status”. This means we can’t open the RESP and will have to keep this money in a undisclosed, safe location instead of a bank. I can’t even start to save for my daughter’s education with money given to her from her late grandmother. Congratulations Canadian government!!! You have succeeded in keeping good Canadian capital OUT of YOUR banks by making me, a born in Canada citizen, a USA tax fugitive. Remember? I am a “non resident alien”. I hope none of you ever wonder why I am donating to this cause. The reasons are clear!!!
NativeCanadian, you need to ditch your bank, or call them on their BS. Both parents are NOT required to open a RESP, only ONE. In your situation, as you know, it should be you. It sounds like the bank just wants to pull you both in to hard sell you on other investments.
NativeCanadian,
Check this information out and see what you think. Perhaps it could work. Perhaps you were not given all the facts OR perhaps the facts below have changed.
…information on the Canadian Registered Education Savings Plan: http://www.canlearn.ca/eng/savings/cesg.shtml. It appears to me that you may, alone, be your child’s subscriber for the RESP per this information: http://www.esdc.gc.ca/en/reports/resp_promoters/elearning/intro_resp.page#h2.2-h3.4
An *Additional Canada Education Savings Grant* is based on family income, so it looks as if family income and family information would apply and where the risk for your family might come in: http://www.canlearn.ca/eng/savings/a-cesg.shtml
Your child deserves the same benefit that comes from savings for future education in an RESP as any other Canadian child does!
The RESP and the RDSP are taxed in the same way. I am the Holder of my son’s RDSP and paid US$3,661 to the IRS because I *was* deemed a US citizen until my renunciation in November of 2012. If your wife were to be a joint-subscriber, which it appears (but I could be wrong) she doesn’t have to be), this is the way the RESP (just like the RDSP) is taxed by the US for US Persons in Canada (considered by the US a *foreign trust*, also requiring complex and costly yearly filings of Forms 3520 and 3520A filings):
There is also the added absurdity that your child may be deemed a US citizen (the same as my kids – although mine were born to two US citizens). Your child WAS born in Canada so, hopefully, does not have the identifying *born in the USA* tattoo.
For your daughter, for my son, and any other Canadian-born children to US parent(s), we must continue our contributions to http://www.adcs-adsc.ca/.
I had RESPs for my 3 kids but dumped them before FBAR became into vogue (about 3 years ago). A good example of how the US government is curtailing investments in Canada.
@ All
Yes, I’ve definitely got the July 1st Betrayal Blues but I will accentuate the positive and thank those paypals who filled the void on a day when there’s no mail delivery in Canada.
I’ve recently learned that paypals can send a message with their donations and certainly that’s the case with those of us who use snail mail so it would be great if EVERYONE included a few quotable words of encouragement for the ADCS team. Some are already doing this and I’m sure Stephen appreciates reading everything that people send. He’s also very good about passing on in his daily updates (with careful regard to anonymity) these encouraging words for all of us to appreciate.
The Sovereignty Thermometer has a tough climb ahead of it this month but if we all pitch in and do whatever we can to motivate others to pitch in we’ll push it to the top again. Surgite!
It is a bit bittersweet but yes I am celebrating Canada Day. Canadians out there – listen to the words of Canada’s Governor General today and be inspired! He says in part:
“…..a wonderful opportunity to reflect, take stock and imagine our future. As we look back let us look forward and let us each give a gift to Canada; something that expresses our belief in a fair and just society for each and every person who calls this land home.”
http://globalnews.ca/video/2084904/a-canada-day-message-from-the-governor-general-of-canada
My gift to Canada will be another donation to ADCS.
@ EmBee — I just have to say thank you for your spirit, for always cheering everyone on toward the fundraising goals. I fret along with you about the sluggish speed at which the thermometer has been rising this past month. Many of our contributions, together, CAN move the thermometer. But we could use some more days like that breath-taking $10,000-day awhile back. And every visual nudge upward of red colour in the thermometer graphic is inspiring.