https://www.abolishfatca.com/drupal7/civicrm/profile/create?gid=17&reset=1
In order to change the mindset of lawmakers that overseas Americans do not vote (only 7% of expats, 523,000 out of 7.6 million, voted in 2012), it is needed to gather and provide our own statistics to them to show
1) FATCA (implying also FBAR & RBT) is a very important issue to you and
2) you do intend to vote in 2016.
Only the statistics will be shown to Congress. The names and street addresses are used for auditors and are not shared with Congress.
Names and addresses are required for survey auditors. Likely, it is not required that you answer every box according to your own choices. You choose what you answer
Please encourage as many people as you can to take this survey. Timing is about one week.
Yes, this is from one side. It isn’t Whitehouse.gov and it isn’t Move On and it isn’t Democrats Abroad (the survey’s you have seen before).
This is from the party that is looking for co-sponsors of legislation to Repeal FATCA.
It should be obvious as to why it is important to show how big the voting block could be. If all the eligible of the 7.6 million were to state that expat issues are more important to them than domestic issues, than it’s possible to get some legislative relief.
Note that voters are supposed to drive legislators.
I can add that the order of things happening is obviously
1) FATCA : urgent, litigation coming very soon & ? legislation ?
2) FBAR: urgent, litigation coming very soon
2) CBT/RBT (if proper legislative support is gained from the ground up population)
Step 1 can’t be skipped in the legislative order of things.
The survey also helps to secure further funding to keep the legislation going.
God helps those that help themselves
Mark Twain: I agree that legislation against FATCA and FBAR as currently applied is urgent and necessary. But if we have to wait for a groundswell of public support for the abolition of CBT I fear we will wait forever. The public by and large doesn’t appear to know it exists and, if they know, they either don’t care or tell us to shut up and pay our taxes. I think a switch to RBT can be done quietly and never even hit the news stands. That’s what I’m counting on.
This is a petition that will go to legislators.
The objective is to get as many people as possible to sign this petition which will be the first petition in history to be presented to LEGISLATORS.
Don’t forget that the media and many opposition people use the generic term “FATCA” to identify everything related to FBAR & CBT.
Simply change the word “FATCA” in the reader’s mind to FBAR or CBT and think of your answer in that way.
for information about the lawsuit against FATCA and FBAR, here is the site
A minimum $10 donation will display that you (and your friends and family) are very much interested in litigating against FATCA and FBAR (and eventually CBT)
https://fatcalegalaction.com/
Note that the first phase of funding is completed–enough has been raised to file the lawsuits.
Lawsuit filing is forthcoming SOON (2 weeks???), and the next phase of fundraising begins.
This, and/or the survey proves that you are indeed interested in getting rid of FBARs and FATCA (and eventually CBT)
My guess is funding’s not a big issue since US banks oppose FATCA.
If every expat, all 7.6 million, would write a letter and send it to the Ways and Means Chairman Ryan asking for The FairTax bill to be passed, we’d see a quantum change in the law. The expats would be free and more than that, every American where ever they live, would be free of the domination of the IRS, who really answer to no one.
1. repeal all federal tax laws.(all 82,000 pages)
2. disband the IRS
3. pass the FairTax HR25 and SB122
4. get government out the way, (watch world economic growth soar)
@Wilton Tidwell
“There are no reliable figures on how many Americans live abroad, but a State Department estimate suggests that the number may be between 3 million and 6 million.”
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_diaspora
This Wikipedia page “American Diaspora” is pretty interesting and makes note of US taxation and how it’s a problem for Americans abroad, but doesn’t mention renunciations. Someone who has Wikipedia editing abilities my want to make the association there and how America’s diaspora is shrinking in record numbers.
FATCA was the law that was made to bring life back to ignored CBT and FBARs and to put them into the global mainstream.
I think Brock has a million hits complaining about the whole thing.
And now, I see a tiny trickle of people actually standing up to support a political arm that is winding up to work on their side.
It’s pretty pathetic how few people can even take up a pencil to stand up for their own rights.
I thought Ronald Reagan was crazy with his warnings. But now I am seeing how many people are wiling to allow themselves to be hunted down throughout the world and are willing to forever report themselves yearly to the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network on their FBARs.
A lot of bitching and moaning and chatting, but when it comes down to a solution, the majority of people are picking their nose.
That lawsuit in US is a few weeks away. There’s a few Congressman thinking of signing up against FATCA and FBAR.
I wonder if there really are people that are looking for Liberty and Justice for US persons abroad.
If they are, they should be giving a contribution to the lawsuits in any amount, supporting the lawsuits in words signatures and actions, and supporting any US or Canadian or French parliament/Congressman that is offering them something.
@banc, kind of hard to support or sign when many of us are ineligible to vote in the US, just good enough to tax and harass.
I have donated to ADCS, and will continue to do so. I have harangued my (putative) Congressional representatives on the RBT issue, as well as Democrats Abroad and Republicans Overseas. The latter two organizations keep focusing on one of the symptoms, rather than the disease itself — and I honestly have to wonder if that isn’t deliberate. I do not want to encourage them to keep focusing on secondary issues. I also do not understand why addressing FATCA/FBAR has to come before addressing CBT. The logic makes no sense — with a Republican-controlled Congress, an RBT bill should be easy to pass, IF they are really serious that that is the end goal. Instead, I see what looks like an attempt to support the banks, using individuals as justification, but without a real commitment to abolishing CBT for individuals.
What I fear will happen is that some limited FATCA/FBAR relief gets enacted, then both RO and DA raise their hands and declare victory, while the fight against CBT continues to be declared “too difficult,” and in fact loses steam.
Can someone please explain to me why it is necessary to focus on FATCA first?
All right, I’ve filled out the survey. But I’m still not voting for anybody who is not committed to abolishing CBT.
Strongly agree with Foo’s comments above. Since the stated purpose of FATCA is to track down American tax cheats–not just those living overseas–I believe there is no political will to change it, only to soften its impact on small fry. RBT is a completely independent issue.
As for me an my husband, both long-term US expats, FBARs and FATCA affect our lives only in terms of fear of retribution, those fears perhaps being exaggerated in our minds. But compliance costs us nothing. On the other hand, CBT costs us plenty, and affects–usually adversely–numerous financial decisions on our parts. What’s more, with far more chances of a minor mistake on the huge stack of annual tax documents triggering a potentially ruinous audit, compared to the fairly straightforward FBAR reporting, it is the taxation aspect that is driving us toward renunciation, not the FBARs or FATCA (though those absolutely add fuel to the fire).
As for me, I’d be happy to put up with the bothersome FBARs, if Citizen Based Taxation were repealed. I’ll contribute to a lawsuit to repeal CBT.
And I think Wilson, above, is barking up the wrong tree, thinking there’s a snowball’s chance in Heck to repeal tax laws and disband the IRS. I agree that a “quiet” change from CBT to RBT is much more achievable.
If anyone has access to those who designed this survey … I suggest that there be a redesign of the survey …. to allow people to say … yes I was a US Citizen BUT I have taken steps to renounce or relinquish or … yes I am a US Citizen but since I am about to renounce or relinquish …. or you get the meaning …. so as to allow others who have found themselves put into a box of bricks to have their say regarding CBT or FATCA but without documenting themselves in a way that might be used against them in due course.
If one is in a phase of relinquishing or renouncing, this survey is probably not for you. It’s for those that need to or want to remain citizens.
Your intention would not be to vote in such a case, I would assume.
You always, however, have the opportunity to send an email to the address at RO and inform them of your plight and your displeasure with the current administration and the 2010 Congress and its FATCA enforcement of FBAR/CBT.
@Barbara – FATCA and FBARs are exceedingly dangerous instruments. In my opinion the Income Tax side is an awful, cruel and unfair burden but is NOT the main problem with these matters. Those of us who have lived through Exchange or Capital Controls can testify to the wickedness of same. FBARs are the tools to enable same to be sprung on the American People at a moment’s notice. One day the order will come to “Repatriate aka move to the US all bank accounts and investments and so on held around the world.” This sort of thing HAS happened in other countries … particularly in my experience those under Socialist / Dictatorial type Governments. This sort of thing traps minority groups (Jews in 1930s Germany for example), middle class folks who want to move their domicile or educate their children abroad, seek opportunity or flee persecution … perhaps US Persons in Yemen, Syria, Iran or Saudi … or Christians in an increasingly hostile US down the road … Tea Party folk targeted by the Lois Lerner sort of officer in the IRS. These are not wild imaginings … these things are quite possible and indeed have happened in some places. Good middle class people have been sent to jail in several countries or in cases such as some Central American or Eastern European countries, even faced execution, because they sought to buy things or to educate their children (move or utilize some money … often US Dollars) outside the borders of their countries of domicile. Over the decades the US (and London and other locations) have been the recipients of such money flows …. and have enjoyed the process … yet even England has had a period of Exchange Control obstructing the removal of money from England by English residents. Perhaps Greece may introduce such a system shortly to obstruct any and all money flows out of Greece other than Government initiated transactions. Whenever these sorts of infringements on the freedom of people and their property occur it is the Poor and the Middle Class that gets hurt the worst. These people are inevitably impoverished and worse yet become trapped in places and circumstances that are often utterly frightful. The really wealthy are quite capable of dancing around the world largely at will … until a Hitler, a Stalin, a Castro sort takes control.
I hope that my ramble makes some sort of sense to you.
good point. The Tea Party thing is an eye opener. FATCA data has no restrictions placed upon it.
FATCA data by nature also includes partners and SUSPECTED US persons and Recalcitrants (those who refuse to answer questions).
@nervousinvestor: Your ramble makes perfect sense, but at the moment it is purely hypothetical, whereas in actual, practical terms at this time and in the immediate and medium-term future, the taxation issue has clear and present detrimental effect on all US expats, while FATCA and FBAR currently pose only the worry of punitive effects. Of course FBARs and FATCA are gross invasions of privacy and your scenario could possibly come true in the long term, and I sincerely wish they will be abolished. But again, for the immediate health of my family and the millions of other US expats, I think it is more urgent to cut out the major tumor–CBT–first, then work on carving out the other long-term potential malignancies after.
@Mark Twain. It SHOULD be of great concern to US Legislators that the US is losing its Diaspora. As discussed on this blog repeatedly, such people are unpaid Ambassadors and Trade Agents around the world … these people often serve to develop markets for US Exports and thus boost the US domestic economy. People might feel forced to renounce or relinquish their US Citizenship but that does not mean that they hate the US nor does it mean that they divorce themselves from their family and friends and heritage within the US. It is absurd to force such conditions on people and worse to do so with vindictiveness and venom. These people should be honored and everything done to help them to easily and peacefully and lovingly retain their links with the US.
If one has the long term best interests of the US at heart one should remember that one catches more flies with honey than with vinegar.
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Aggreed–Yes it should be.
The survey is fixed as it is with the questions as they are.
It’s always important to get your comments towards the places where they count. Losing citizens should be directed to whatever visible forum….
One important thing to mention to the party that people used to belong to prior to renunciation is that they have driven out their own voter.
In Jamaica in the 1970s, the Government decided to call on the Jamaican people to declare all assets held outside Jamaica to the Bank of Jamaica (Equivalent to the fed or Bank of Canada) for information purposes. The statement was made “Not to worry. You can keep your investments and accounts in London or elsewhere, we just want to compile the information”. The honest Middle Class primarily declared these assets. A year or three later in the same 1970s the word came “Repatriate all accounts overseas even if the money had not originated from Jamaica. Sell investments in shares and so on abroad and repatriate the money”. Many middle class families who had small investments and so on in London (or elsewhere) at the time were severely damaged and many of these families have never recovered financially as devaluation of the Jamaican Dollar devoured what remained of their savings and capital. Good Middle Class people faced prosecution when caught moving a few dollars out to Miami or elsewhere. These things are NOT hypothetical. They are real and happen quickly once started. People need privacy. Governments are NOT to be trusted and need to be transparent.
Dont know if I am hijacking this thread … but the point at issue is that Governments are not to be trusted. Please read the article at http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/02/11/small-business-owners-battle-irs-over-seized-bank-accounts/
This is terrifying stuff.
A section of the article says:
_____________________________________________________________
Clyde was accused of what’s known as “structuring” — that is, making deposits deliberately calculated to skirt reporting requirements — because he made frequent deposits just under $10,000.
But Clyde says he only did that because of his insurance policy.
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and also:
___________________________________________________
The total cost of the IRS ordeal for Clyde ran over $150,000 – including legal fees and a $50,000 settlement with the IRS to get the rest of his money back.
He pleaded Wednesday for Congress to change the law so that no one else would be hurt like he has.
“You’ve been violated by your government,” Rep. Mike Kelly, R-Pa., thundered at Wednesday’s House Ways and Means Committee’s oversight subcommittee hearing.
Clyde wasn’t the only one. Maryland creamery owner Randy Sowers and Jeff Hirsch, a tobacco and candy distributor in New York, also run legitimate businesses. Yet the IRS seized their assets anyway, creating massive legal bills and hurting their businesses.
_________________________________________________
Hijacking the thread? Nope. You are bringing it around.
What comes around goes around.
http://waysandmeans.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=398075
The issue that you are talking about was discussed today in Congress. And the asset seizing you are talking about is caused by literal application of the BANK SECRECY LAW.
“Structuring” is part of the Bank Secrecy Law, and assumes that one is guilty if one has simply made payments consistently under $10,000. There is even a story of a German guy in Germany whose assets were seized for sending funds inside Germany but was seized due to the US structuring laws.
And Peter Roskam, Rand Paul, and Tim Wahlberg are discussing it in Congress now. They are trying to show the world that the 1970 Bank Secrecy Act is unconstitutional and they want their asses covered by the people who are getting screwed by it.
The Bank Secrecy Law is the same crap that created FBAR.
It’s the same crap that could one day trip you up when you make a series of $8000 transfers between even 2 domestic Canadian banks. Have you ever done such a thing and found out later that it could have been called “illegal”?
If they get their asses covered, they may proceed.
Those guys are going to bat for the little people with businesses inside US according to the Orwellian Bank Secrecy Act–the act that the public currently loves and that the whole world is praising.
It seems that they are willing to go to bat for FBARs also as part of the Bank Secrecy Act.
@Mark Twain : Thank you for that link. The raw injustice of these over bearing laws needs to be publicized and such laws overturned. In the meantime …. the US Administration / Bureaucracy is actively pushing similar laws into other countries around the world. This misguided behavior has the potential to be very nasty indeed.
@banc,
if you have living parents (and grandparents), it’s not so easy as to fill out a form or two and tell the US to F-off, especially if you would need a visa.