ADMISSION FEE $20 UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED (to cover costs)
- Toronto, ON U.S. Citizenship & Young Adults: Navigating The Special Rules Imposed On U.S.Citizens Abroad Sat, June 7, 10 am to 12 noon, Univ of Toronto, St. Michael’s College, Carr Hall, 100 St. Joseph St, MAP NB: $20 individual or $40 for a family of up to four people
Vancouver notes (Feb 22) Updated on March 28 here
Toronto group Saturday, January 25, 2014, Carr Hall
I received the following announcement about information sessions, provided by Toronto based lawyer, for people affected by the USA’s extra-territorial tax overreach which violates Canada’s sovereignty. I think it is a good idea. If you are an alleged US person and you have become aware that the US claims that you should be filing your taxes, please do nothing, do not enter the OVDI program, and above all, do not call a US cross border tax specialist (neither a lawyer nor an accountant), but educate yourself first. The paid experts will scare the hell out of you. There are many options besides allowing a cross border specialist lead you as a lamb to the slaughter.
If you are a Canadian citizen or resident of Canada, you have specific rights and protections that even FATCA cannot revoke. This is why these informational sessions will be useful to you. They will lay out and explore all your options.
Sincerely, Petros
Please note that the speaker would like help finding venues that are inexpensive or free. Perhaps those living in the various cities could ask if a Church or other may be able to offer space. Please keep returning for updates.
Here is the announcement:
Recent CBC Coverage of FATCA and Citizenship-based taxation:
The recent CBC coverage of FATCA and U.S. extraterritorial taxation has raised awareness/concern over the plight of Canadian citizens of U.S. origin. Those who are learning about this for the first time (the OMG moment) will be experiencing a combination of shock, fear, betrayal and more. There will be lots of people interested in understanding the situation and determining whether and/or how to respond.
The following comment appeared on the blog:
Looks like the recent media coverage is creating mass panic in Canada. This might force the Canadian government to issue a statement sooner rather than later. This is good. But I feel bad for the people who are just having their OMG moment. They need some sound advice as to not to make bad decisions which would devastate them financially. While each situation is different, the Canadian government owes it to affected Canadians to provide some guidance and advice and fast. It needs to be official cannot just come from web sites like IBS or Maple Sandbox. Maybe the administrators should add some notes like they can’t be held responsible for actions that people take by following advice on these blogs. This is common sense, but might protect you from lawsuits.
We agree! The important thing it to stay calm! Do NOT panic! Do not react to this situation! Take your time to make the decisions that are appropriate to your situation! Above all else, do NOT even consider entering the Offshore Voluntary Disclosure Program or any other kind of disclosure program unless you are certain that it is right for you (which it almost certainly is NOT)!
Obviously NO blog or web site can provide reliable legal advice. No seminar for the general public can provide reliable legal advice! Your job is simply to begin gathering information and beginning to understand the new reality of U.S. citizenship.
What follows are a list of “Solving The Problems of U.S. Citizenship” information sessions that you can attend, for a nominal fee and anonymously! The sessions are NOT intended to provide legal advice. But, they are intended to help you identify the issues that may apply to your situation.
Do NOT engage the services of an accountant or lawyer before equipping yourself with some basic knowledge!
Solving The Problems of U.S. Citizenship – Exploratory Sessions
The topics covered are designed to alert you to issues and are NOT offered as legal or accounting advice specific to your situation.
They include:
Citizenship Issues:
– Are you STILL a U.S. citizen?
– Are your children U.S. citizens?
– What might FATCA mean for me?
Tax Issues
– Filing U.S. tax returns – what’s involved?
– Filing information returns (FBAR, Form 3520, 5471, etc.)
– Reasonable cause (avoiding penalties)
Financial Planning Issues
– investment products that are cancerous for U.S. citizens
Does it make sense to renounce U.S. citizenship?
– Renouncing U.S. citizenship
____________________________________________________________________
How To Attend …
Once a session has been marked “CONFIRMED” you are free to attend. Each session will have a $20 admission fee (to offset the cost of the room) which is payable in cash at the door. Neither taping nor video of any kind will be permitted.
first published 14 January 2014
Rick Mercer on Fatca. Finally!!! I’ve been waiting.
yup saw the fatca skit on rick mercer last nite and it was great. my wife and i just looked at each other and laughed upon the realization of how far the media coverae has come in just a few short weeks.
on another note i sent an e mail to kevin shroom at the dept. of finance and this is the response i got back from him
Dear Mr. xxxxx,
Thank you for the comments you provide below. Please be assured that your views will be taken into consideration.
Regards,
Kevin Shoom
Senior Chief, International Taxation and Special Projects / Chef principal, Section de la Fiscalité international et projets spéciaux
Business Income Tax Division / Division de l’impôt des entreprises
Department of Finance / Ministère des Finances
Ottawa, Canada K1A 0G5
Kevin.Shoom@fin.gc.ca
Telephone / Téléphone (613) 992-2980 Facsimile / Télécopieur (613) 943-2486 Teletypewriter / Téléimprimeur (613) 995-1455
Government of Canada / Gouvernement du Canada
who knows what will happen but at least i got a response from someone in ottawa. more than i can say for the 5 emails i have sent my MP about fatca
@mettleman
I was also encouraged the last time I got a response from Kevin Shoom, when he said he’d add my latest letter to the file he has on me. They’re organizing our remarks.
A great comment about the injustice of CBT I came across on Jack Townsend’s blog from somebody writing under the name, againnoone.
“There is a reason that only the US and Eritea, a backwards dictatorship that cannot enforce its laws extraterritorially, have citizenship based taxation. It is essentially slavery to the state. The state owns you, regardless of where you live. It’s fundamentally wrong. It is arguably a violation of the fundamental right to travel or a violation of fundamental human rights.
But, Jack is correct, that the IRS and DOJ have been successful in enforcing these unjust laws. There is no denying that.
Peter is correct, that expatriates and foreigners see the US as unjust. There is good reason for this. The laws assume the state owns its citizens by virtue of its tax laws. The power to tax is equivalent to the power to destroy. We have seen people with such limited contacts to the US being caught up in the web of the US tax laws to readily see that the tax net is being cast too broadly.
I get very sad when I see the stories of people who might have been born in the US and moved away at an early age, or people who are US citizens by virtue of the acts of their parents who were proud to be Americans and who made their kids US citizens, suddenly finding their lives’ savings being at risk. I feel sad for the foreign married couples caught up in the US tax web because one spouse retained US citizenship. (That must make for some stressful dinner conversations.) How anyone can read these stories and not be sad is beyond me.
Most people are not sophisticated on US tax laws, particularly with regard to international financial reporting requirements. Perhaps awareness is higher today than it used to be, but that doesn’t matter for the many people living in distress.
There are two opposing views: One is that citizenship based taxation is okay because of the revenues it raises and for the revenues it seeks to avoid losing. The second view is that citizenship based taxation is wrong because people should be free to travel and only pay taxes where they live.
So, here is what it comes down to: (1) Do the ends justify the means? In other words, is it okay to have laws that are universally viewed as unjust to raise revenues? Should the US ‘bite the bullet’ and accept that people can live where they choose and pay taxes where they live? (2) Who in the US is going to take the side of the minority of its citizens who live abroad, and say ‘okay, go live abroad, and don’t pay us a percentage of your income’? To change the law asks those remaining in the US to voluntarily assume a greater financial burden, when it is perhaps more palatable to tax a minority of foreigners without any political muscle. Or, put differently, the majority rules, regardless of fairness.
With huge government deficits and the ‘class warfare’ mentality that has evolved politically, I don’t see things changing anytime soon in the US.”
@From the Wilderness.
” To change the law asks those remaining in the US to voluntarily assume a greater financial burden, when it is perhaps more palatable to tax a minority of foreigners without any political muscle. Or, put differently, the majority rules, regardless of fairness.”
How much more a financial burden? Perhaps the very rich 1 percent can pay a bit more taxes to make up the difference. I really would like to know how the difference is…compared to all those extra IRS employees who will have to review and implement FATCA.
That’s just it. We don’t know. For all we know it costs more to process returns from expats than the money received in tax revenue from us.
Is there any likelihood that a FOI request on this would yield actual results?
@northerstar
Why ask more from the top 1%, they already carry most of the burden anyway? Why not just stop spending so much money on all the bullshit wars of yankee imperialism?
@FromTheWilderness
That would be a good idea. It is the 1 percent who own the military complex. Right now the 1 percen pay less in taxes thsn before 1929.,, during President Eisenhower’s time on office the elite paid 90 percent in taxes. Our middle class was strong and healthy . I grew up then in a blue Collar Union family. No one was on food stamps ot unemployed in myntown.
@Northernstar,
Progressive taxation was first introduced by Karl Marx in the Communist Manifesto. Punishing somebody with higher percentages to pay (higher tax brackets) for working harder and therefore earning more money is just plain unfair.
To me, its almost as unfair as citizenship based taxation is for expats.
@mettelman and bubblebustin
I too am very encouraged when I receive a response from Kevin Shoom letting me know that he is adding my comments to the one’s I’ve already submitted.
@FromtheWilderness
I am one of those people who think we are all in this boat together. I find most Canadians think like that. I do not believe in the fittest or richest get most of the pie. I was raised a catholic but as an adult I found I hatedmreligion BUT this Pope Francis is amazing. He really speaks Jesus , especially when he described the rich’s cup keeps getting bigger to keep the “trickle down” from really happening. I believe in doing onto others as you want others to do onto you. When my son was 4 his teacher asked his class to answer the same questions to go under their pictures. One question was what do you want most in the world. He answered “all the toys in the world” . I read that and asked him where would you put all these toys and what about the other children in the world? This is whst I believe the rich 1 percent think. My son is now a progressive futurist. He hates politics. Money is not his major objective . There is more to life than being richest, there is love, caring and helping the less fortunate. There no reason in this world to have people without food, health care or housing. I have seen much of that in the USA. ! I don’t think having a few less dollars is punishment. I think of it as giving thanks that you can do that to help your fellow man.. The 1 percent have as much as the almost 50 percent in this world, maybe even more, they can dpare some Change.
@northernstar
Hear, hear! However, according a very recent report a mere 85 individuals have as much shared wealth as the poorer 3.5 billion people on our planet (half of humanity)
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/oxfam-warns-davos-of-pernicious-impact-of-the-widening-wealth-gap-9070714.html
I wonder if we’ll see Rick Mercer at the Toronto information session…….
@Mettleman, and Bubblebustin,
I agree with Bubblebustin re: they may be organizing our responses. The letter I sent Flaherty via mail a couple weeks ago where I suggested he need HUGE balls, netted me a return letter from the Department of Finance.
@King of the Road
Thanks for putting up the 85 richest people in the world link. It is mind boggling. Those people have more spare change in many lifetimes. Their families probably have perpetual trusts that are not taxed. The Rich have loopholes. We don’t.
Phil,
You said that you were born in the USA and, further on, that you want your kids to be “off this leash” . You do not say whether or not you now have kids. If you do, the US DOES consider them US citizens based on your having gained US citizenship through your birth within the USA. As part of your investigation and preparation for renunciation, find out from the embassy/consulate what your kids have to do to get rid of their citizenship; they may have to wait until they are an age of majority (18? 21?) and then do this for themselves (under no pressure for anyone else). You can tell them all the negatives about US citizenship along the way but they will have to decide for themselves – – who knows, when they get to that age they might appreciate the “opportunity” to go to the USA for work… But I doubt that a parent can “renounce” his/her children at the time that they themselves renounce. Anyone else know if this is accurate (from experience)?
@LM
If Phil is a he, he didn’t live in the US long enough to pass US citizenship on to his children.
Thank goodness I have not passed on that burdensome yoke to my kids! The (US) buck (stealing) stops here!
Yes GwEvil, the debilitating gene dies with you.
@Northerstar
I believe that the people who create wealth should have the right to share it with whoever they choose. It is their wealth to share, not the government’s. Its called charity and philanthropy and is a beautiful thing which should be embraced to the fullest.
Progressive taxation undermines this. Its a system whereby the government grabs money from the most productive (a minority) in order to buy votes from the less productive (majority) in order to keep themselves in power. The Dems are experts at using progressive taxation to payoff their constituency.
The Republicans on the other hand, have been guilty as hell in redistributing money from ordinary taxpayers in order to payoff their own base, particularly the military industrial complex. Thats why the Bush Admin started so many wars. And 911 was exploited to the max in order to do it.
Like America’s founders, I believe in limited government because I simply don’t trust any of the rascals seek positions of power. They are experts at pretending to serve the public when in reality, they are mainly only interested in serving themselves.
So there you have it, I’m a libertarian. I place high value on both, social and economic freedom. I’m one of those tin hatted libertarian conspiracy theorists with a Ron Paul poster on the wall (right next to my CLN).
Cheers
@ All
Kevin O’Leary (Lang and O’Leary Report) thoughts on wealth /poverty imbalance.
http://www.infowars.com/kevin-oleary-3-5-billion-people-living-in-poverty-is-fantastic-news/
I’m one of the 99% too, but I’m not crying about it.
Quick question – – does FACTA just relate to Cdn banks or also to investment houses?
Will non-bank, smaller investment companies be under this scheme too or just the larger ones? Could US citizens be banned from direct investing through, say, mutual fund organizations or Raymond James or Edward Jones Investments? What if they only invest in Canadian businesses – – could they escape FACTA oversight?
@ bublesbustin: Are you certain that he (or she) will not be passing on the US citizenship to his/her children? That, in terms of US law/policy ( I’m not talking about what he/she might WANT) these children wouldn’t be considered US citizens? Can you expand on the rules in this regard?
Here are the rules of conferring US citizenship on children born outside of the US to US parent citizens:
http://www.americanlaw.com/citabrd.html