ADMISSION FEE $20 UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED (to cover costs)
- Toronto, ON U.S. Citizenship & Young Adults: Navigating The Special Rules Imposed On U.S.Citizens Abroad Sat, June 7, 10 am to 12 noon, Univ of Toronto, St. Michael’s College, Carr Hall, 100 St. Joseph St, MAP NB: $20 individual or $40 for a family of up to four people
Vancouver notes (Feb 22) Updated on March 28 here
Toronto group Saturday, January 25, 2014, Carr Hall
I received the following announcement about information sessions, provided by Toronto based lawyer, for people affected by the USA’s extra-territorial tax overreach which violates Canada’s sovereignty. I think it is a good idea. If you are an alleged US person and you have become aware that the US claims that you should be filing your taxes, please do nothing, do not enter the OVDI program, and above all, do not call a US cross border tax specialist (neither a lawyer nor an accountant), but educate yourself first. The paid experts will scare the hell out of you. There are many options besides allowing a cross border specialist lead you as a lamb to the slaughter.
If you are a Canadian citizen or resident of Canada, you have specific rights and protections that even FATCA cannot revoke. This is why these informational sessions will be useful to you. They will lay out and explore all your options.
Sincerely, Petros
Please note that the speaker would like help finding venues that are inexpensive or free. Perhaps those living in the various cities could ask if a Church or other may be able to offer space. Please keep returning for updates.
Here is the announcement:
Recent CBC Coverage of FATCA and Citizenship-based taxation:
The recent CBC coverage of FATCA and U.S. extraterritorial taxation has raised awareness/concern over the plight of Canadian citizens of U.S. origin. Those who are learning about this for the first time (the OMG moment) will be experiencing a combination of shock, fear, betrayal and more. There will be lots of people interested in understanding the situation and determining whether and/or how to respond.
The following comment appeared on the blog:
Looks like the recent media coverage is creating mass panic in Canada. This might force the Canadian government to issue a statement sooner rather than later. This is good. But I feel bad for the people who are just having their OMG moment. They need some sound advice as to not to make bad decisions which would devastate them financially. While each situation is different, the Canadian government owes it to affected Canadians to provide some guidance and advice and fast. It needs to be official cannot just come from web sites like IBS or Maple Sandbox. Maybe the administrators should add some notes like they can’t be held responsible for actions that people take by following advice on these blogs. This is common sense, but might protect you from lawsuits.
We agree! The important thing it to stay calm! Do NOT panic! Do not react to this situation! Take your time to make the decisions that are appropriate to your situation! Above all else, do NOT even consider entering the Offshore Voluntary Disclosure Program or any other kind of disclosure program unless you are certain that it is right for you (which it almost certainly is NOT)!
Obviously NO blog or web site can provide reliable legal advice. No seminar for the general public can provide reliable legal advice! Your job is simply to begin gathering information and beginning to understand the new reality of U.S. citizenship.
What follows are a list of “Solving The Problems of U.S. Citizenship” information sessions that you can attend, for a nominal fee and anonymously! The sessions are NOT intended to provide legal advice. But, they are intended to help you identify the issues that may apply to your situation.
Do NOT engage the services of an accountant or lawyer before equipping yourself with some basic knowledge!
Solving The Problems of U.S. Citizenship – Exploratory Sessions
The topics covered are designed to alert you to issues and are NOT offered as legal or accounting advice specific to your situation.
They include:
Citizenship Issues:
– Are you STILL a U.S. citizen?
– Are your children U.S. citizens?
– What might FATCA mean for me?
Tax Issues
– Filing U.S. tax returns – what’s involved?
– Filing information returns (FBAR, Form 3520, 5471, etc.)
– Reasonable cause (avoiding penalties)
Financial Planning Issues
– investment products that are cancerous for U.S. citizens
Does it make sense to renounce U.S. citizenship?
– Renouncing U.S. citizenship
____________________________________________________________________
How To Attend …
Once a session has been marked “CONFIRMED” you are free to attend. Each session will have a $20 admission fee (to offset the cost of the room) which is payable in cash at the door. Neither taping nor video of any kind will be permitted.
first published 14 January 2014
We dumped our U.S. holdings inside our RRSP too. I had asked my husband for years to be sure his RRSP held some U.S. investments since I wanted to help out the U.S. After this happened he dumped everything even remotely connected to the U.S. Others will do the same. Families are not too thrilled being assaulted in this way for fines and fees on zero taxes owed. Nobody is going to be eager to help out the U.S. when we can invest elsewhere.
@bubblebustin, as a former democrat and someone liberal minded I won’t tell a new person wanting to come to an information session to just deal with it. I agree with you about Obama one hundred percent though. He’s been horrible for expat families all over the world. For some that’s a slap in the face. At any rate I’ve felt the same from time to time in the PAST as the person who wrote to me but, I realized this IS NOT a left/right issue and can only be such if you choose to see it that way over and above all the damage it is doing. It’s just not relevant to this fight. AT ALL. FATCA destroys lives…it doesn’t care what kind of leaning you have politically or if you have any leaning at all.
I was probably one of the ones who expressed concerns about right leaningness. My concerns were not about FATCA being a partisan issue but more about wanting to know who was providing the information sessions, as that appeared to be a bit of a mystery.
No matter how much I hate FATCA, no matter how horrible the effects on my life, I am not prepared to go sit in an information session if it’s given by someone whose politics I find abhorrent.
I don’t consider myself a US person so comments about Obama and who is at fault – Democrats or Republicans – are meaningless to me. And, I don’t really care how people vent on this board (but rants of any vein are apt to make me skip to another thread where information outweighs invective). But when it comes to being associated with persons in a public forum, you can bet I want to know where they stand.
I do not own US stocks. Even though I am completely hidden, I do not even want to take risk, I am old and like my dividends and dividend tax credit
Peteos there is a housing bubble. that you are well aware of, a declining dollar will help resources but not having national diversification is not a good thing. The Canadian oil industry is getting killed with high transportation cost and weak natural gas market. All resource company would be hammered if the USA imposed 30% withholding to transaction. Gold is not a proxy for anything, the total world government Gold reserve is 600 billion, Apple market cap is 480 billion it even has a dividend whereas Gold cost something to store. The US economy is 17 trillion. I am old enough to see gold go from 35 to 800 in a 10 year period then it declined. All these people that got on the gold bandwagon after it big rise are silly. I am a fan of Ayn Rand but I though her love of gold standard was wrongheaded.
If Brokerage ever sent me a W8 I would say I am not US person. But if I do not own US stocks the US can not claim anything. Since Canada courts will not enforce foreign tax ruling I assume that perjury charge would look ridiculous to A Canadian Court especially if I owed USA noting
I am not a US citizen just had a green card for 1 year that I threw over 35 years ago. Actually including a partial year filling I have always filed Canadian taxes.
Doews anybody seen any regulation rewgarding proving relinquishment
DM56 — the persons giving the information sessions will be invited by those you and I and others have discussion with here each and every day. I hope that you and others know we would not offer something political one way or the other — or the other. This will mostly be an overview for those quite new to this — resulting from all the Canadian media coverage last week. It will not just be someone talking at you — it will be information, Q&A, support. I hope if you are close to where one takes place, you’ll carve the time out to attend.
I have numerous time warned Petros not to cross the border. Even with the statue of limitation I think the USA may go after him because he is so outspoken. The USG could do a Martha Stewart routine on him. But on US equity holding he has the golden paper unless he is uncertain about what the lawyer wrote about FBAR not being required for the 8854.
The strange thing about Imclone, it was a perfectly good drug that the FDA held, up people died because it was not available, If you believe in the heaven and hell stuff, who would go to hell the FDA regulator for preventing a good drug from getting out or Martha Stewart for $45,000 about 1/2000 of her net worth.
Correction it would have been less than 1/20,000 of her net worth
@DM56
You and Ronald Reagan appear to have overlapping principles. Your comment – “I am not prepared to go sit in an information session if it’s given by someone whose politics I find abhorrent” – reminded me of one of the stories that came out of the 1981 shooting of the President.
Here is a description:
http://fedoradudescommentary.blogspot.ca/2012/02/mr-president-today-we-are-all.html
LOL, Dm yes it was you.
As I assured you I’m very left leaning but, if you feel this meeting wouldn’t be for you then understood.
I’m neither Dem or Republican since I’m not American and like you do not care anymore about what side of any aisle people are on down there.
Kingston as you know is a very liberal riding and always votes liberal. This meeting is about FATCA and only FATCA. Hope you’ll come but, if you do not feel you’d want to then hope you still gain knowledge and help from this forum or Maple Sandbox. We can all use all the help we can get.
With that I need to go to bed early. I’ve already had a discussion about animal welfare today that went south and so won’t continue on sides of aisles. You all know my belief system though I don’t really share it here much at all. Trying to stick to FATCA which can’t be fought any other way.
Hope you’re all warm and safe tonight! Tomorrow my flyers go up all over town, CKWS has my community announcement which means it will go in the Gan newspaper as well. I’m going to follow up tomorrow with a call to CKWS to make sure they are going to run my community announcement. I’m going to call Ted Hsu’s offices tomorrow and see if he would like to drop by or perhaps send a statement . 🙂 N’ite all!!
Calgary 411
If the person giving the information session is an investor type maybe you can sit down with him/her after the meeting and discuss a financial plan for your son.
No, the information sessions at various cities in Canada, the first of this series in Toronto, will be the same kinds of information we get here — nothing to do with investment people or compliance people, etc. They will be geared for newcomers to all of this. Thanks — I am going to get to that one of these days after I know what our Canadian government is going to do about protecting the rights of my son as a Canadian.
@Atticus
I meant deal with the fact that Obama has betrayed you. When people realize that, they can without any qualms throw their support behind those who can best help us – like perhaps the RNC. All Dems Abroad and the like can do is beg for mercy.
Calgary 411
I was guessing that Petros was in the session as well.
On another issue KalC say that even if they discovered your son as “American” all you have to do is get a social security number give it to the banks. The worse the IRS can do is sending you nasty letters.
This case about banks is relevant
“In my opinion, a foreign state cannot escape the application of this rule, which is one of public policy, by taking a judgment in its own Courts and bringing suit here on that judgment. The claim asserted remains a claim for taxes. It has not, in our Courts, merged in the judgment; enforcement of the judgment would be enforcement of the tax claim.”
http://uniset.ca/other/cs6/68OR2d379.html
George 111 . I said no such thing. Please don’t quote me again.
DM56
It is not politics you should be interested, it is rationality and logic you should be interested. Some people have paranoidial rants they should be ignored.
KalC is very rational and never has said anything remotely political.
Thanks, George III, but…
One of my main points is that I will not get a SSN for my son. He could not do that with all the process requires. As I do not have the RIGHT to renounce on his behalf nor influence him in any way in his decision then if he was capable of making it, as I see it, I also cannot help him with proving to the US that he would be a US citizen to get a SSN, the only reason for which doing so (for THIS family) would be a, then, successful renunciation. Since we have been told that my son cannot renounce himself because of lack of ‘mental capacity’, that he must not have anyone influence him if he did have requisite mental capacity, and that a parent, a guardian or a trustee cannot renounce on such a person’s behalf, even with a court order — what’s the point? My son is Canadian; this is where he was born and has lived his whole life. He has never been registered with the US, never lived in the US, never had any benefit from the US. The US can send any benefits they might have on hold for my son straight to the IRS for payment on what they think is my son’s fair share that he hasn’t been paying.
Sorry KaLC
Calgary
I think there is no possible way for a Bank to shut down an account if they have A SSN. The IRS can not collect in Canada from a Canadian due to CRA Rule & Revenue Rule for courts. The IRS can send you nasty letters but they can not do anything in Canada.
This is just a suggestion if the the very unlikely possibility of the bank, threatening to shut down your account for being recalcitrant.
Disability disabled must be able to get an account in SSN number in USA.
@ GeorgeIII
Getting an SS number for her son would be red flagging him as a US person. This is not what calgary411 wants. He is Canadian, period. I believe his disability payments, due to him, from Canada, is all that she wants for him. And he is totally entitled to get them. However, if I’m not getting this right I’m sure calgary411 will reply.
Agreeing with Em, if Calgary411 got her son a SSN, that will put him on ‘the grid’ as a US person. Why would she want to do that?
Em, you have it right. I want my son to have the same rights as any other Canadian under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and I want him to have the same benefit of any Canadian registered account, including the Registered Disability Savings Plan, for which I am the Holder / he the Beneficiary to collect way down the road. It is entirely, for me, the principle of this whole absurdity. I want for him no SSN and no US disability benefit. Can you just imagine the complexity of how much he would be entitled to from each country and on and on and the forms required in that regard? No thank you. My son is Canadian. I also want this for every other son and daughter with a disability whose parent(s), guardians or trustees feel such person is entrapped into some supposed US citizenship and the expense and complexity of the administration of compliance year after year after bloody year for no appreciable tax owed to the US. Common sense – no! I, too, will be part of a class-action suit if it comes to that.
@@all
I got rid of anthing in investments American before the bank crash. I laugh when I read they said they did not know. Ha !
Listening to Harpers speech today leads me to believe he will throw us under the bus.
mjh49783,
I’ve already put him on the grid by ‘coming out’ with the story and my name — and he is identified on my FBARs as I am the Holder of his RDSP and provincial funding account. Who knows what is down the road for my family, but I could no longer stand by and say by my silence that it is OK with me to pillage what should eventually belong to my son — and my daughter.
I think she has red flagged him to USG unless I misunderstood
“More and more will be underlined the absurdity and the unfairness of all of this but that will not be resolution. Some (like my for my son and others whose “foreign” identification will not show a US place of birth, MAY HE FORGIVE ME FOR HAVING SOLD HIM OUT, although his “foreign financial accounts” are identified in the Foreign Bank Account Reports that I’ve “complied with” and sent to the US). It will be that some can be more easily nabbed and put through the wringer of the injustice of FATCA combined with US citizenship-taxation than others. None of this will be equitable and none of it should be as US Person “ignorance” allows criminalization by the US. ”
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/01/13/cbc-news-re-fatca-and-unsuspecting-canadians-one-calgary411/
I have made a mistake all ready in a quote today and am pissed off at myself
FATCA 101 lessons from the Association of Certified Financial Specialists with special guest Chris McAuley of SAS of the FCC: If you “put the right plumbing in now” GATCA will be easy, when every other country of the world comes looking for the same info the US is now.
Mostly eye-glazing but a couple spots of interest:
Spotting a new green card holder (at about 14:00). Now I’d like to know why someone would become a green card holder to consciously hide money in an FFI!
If your bank suspects you of being a US person you are expected to provide a “raft of information” to prove otherwise (at about 15:00).
https://soundcloud.com/rhilson/acfcs-fatca-podcast
@calgary411
Then I can only hope that Canada won’t throw you and your son under the bus for a signed FATCA IGA. Maybe it’s just my cynicism coming out, but I really don’t trust Harper.
Thanks, mjh. Me too. I can only hope that my family’s story and the entrapment of my son into his ‘supposed’ US citizenship will enlighten others to the absurdity of it all. Absurdity is FATCA combined with US citizenship-based taxation. Just tell me, Mr. Harper or Mr. Flaherty, will my son be one of the new class of Canadians — 2nd class to any other no matter where they may be from, the parents they were born to? Will he not be able to benefit from the Registered Disability Savings Plan that I Hold for him — either because the US will tax gains and contributions from the Canadian government or because my Canadian bank will close what will be called a recalcitrant account?