ADMISSION FEE $20 UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED (to cover costs)
- Toronto, ON U.S. Citizenship & Young Adults: Navigating The Special Rules Imposed On U.S.Citizens Abroad Sat, June 7, 10 am to 12 noon, Univ of Toronto, St. Michael’s College, Carr Hall, 100 St. Joseph St, MAP NB: $20 individual or $40 for a family of up to four people
Vancouver notes (Feb 22) Updated on March 28 here
Toronto group Saturday, January 25, 2014, Carr Hall
I received the following announcement about information sessions, provided by Toronto based lawyer, for people affected by the USA’s extra-territorial tax overreach which violates Canada’s sovereignty. I think it is a good idea. If you are an alleged US person and you have become aware that the US claims that you should be filing your taxes, please do nothing, do not enter the OVDI program, and above all, do not call a US cross border tax specialist (neither a lawyer nor an accountant), but educate yourself first. The paid experts will scare the hell out of you. There are many options besides allowing a cross border specialist lead you as a lamb to the slaughter.
If you are a Canadian citizen or resident of Canada, you have specific rights and protections that even FATCA cannot revoke. This is why these informational sessions will be useful to you. They will lay out and explore all your options.
Sincerely, Petros
Please note that the speaker would like help finding venues that are inexpensive or free. Perhaps those living in the various cities could ask if a Church or other may be able to offer space. Please keep returning for updates.
Here is the announcement:
Recent CBC Coverage of FATCA and Citizenship-based taxation:
The recent CBC coverage of FATCA and U.S. extraterritorial taxation has raised awareness/concern over the plight of Canadian citizens of U.S. origin. Those who are learning about this for the first time (the OMG moment) will be experiencing a combination of shock, fear, betrayal and more. There will be lots of people interested in understanding the situation and determining whether and/or how to respond.
The following comment appeared on the blog:
Looks like the recent media coverage is creating mass panic in Canada. This might force the Canadian government to issue a statement sooner rather than later. This is good. But I feel bad for the people who are just having their OMG moment. They need some sound advice as to not to make bad decisions which would devastate them financially. While each situation is different, the Canadian government owes it to affected Canadians to provide some guidance and advice and fast. It needs to be official cannot just come from web sites like IBS or Maple Sandbox. Maybe the administrators should add some notes like they can’t be held responsible for actions that people take by following advice on these blogs. This is common sense, but might protect you from lawsuits.
We agree! The important thing it to stay calm! Do NOT panic! Do not react to this situation! Take your time to make the decisions that are appropriate to your situation! Above all else, do NOT even consider entering the Offshore Voluntary Disclosure Program or any other kind of disclosure program unless you are certain that it is right for you (which it almost certainly is NOT)!
Obviously NO blog or web site can provide reliable legal advice. No seminar for the general public can provide reliable legal advice! Your job is simply to begin gathering information and beginning to understand the new reality of U.S. citizenship.
What follows are a list of “Solving The Problems of U.S. Citizenship” information sessions that you can attend, for a nominal fee and anonymously! The sessions are NOT intended to provide legal advice. But, they are intended to help you identify the issues that may apply to your situation.
Do NOT engage the services of an accountant or lawyer before equipping yourself with some basic knowledge!
Solving The Problems of U.S. Citizenship – Exploratory Sessions
The topics covered are designed to alert you to issues and are NOT offered as legal or accounting advice specific to your situation.
They include:
Citizenship Issues:
– Are you STILL a U.S. citizen?
– Are your children U.S. citizens?
– What might FATCA mean for me?
Tax Issues
– Filing U.S. tax returns – what’s involved?
– Filing information returns (FBAR, Form 3520, 5471, etc.)
– Reasonable cause (avoiding penalties)
Financial Planning Issues
– investment products that are cancerous for U.S. citizens
Does it make sense to renounce U.S. citizenship?
– Renouncing U.S. citizenship
____________________________________________________________________
How To Attend …
Once a session has been marked “CONFIRMED” you are free to attend. Each session will have a $20 admission fee (to offset the cost of the room) which is payable in cash at the door. Neither taping nor video of any kind will be permitted.
first published 14 January 2014
@crazyworld,
Yes, it is!
When I first had the infamous ‘OMG’ moment, I tried desperately to explain my panic to my husband. He thought I was imagining the threat, and paranoid over nothing, and said something along the lines of: ‘if what you think is true then the world is a crazy place’.
None of this makes sense. We are under attack, and the attackers don’t even know who they are attacking or why they are attacking them. It is a crazy world.
@crazyworld
if your situation matches the three points you just made “no assets, family in the usa nor any reason to go there,” then likely doing nothing IS the best course of action. Reason being, there’s nothing they can take and you don’t need them for anything……….
One thing I learned in tax class (of all places) is that there is never a black-and-white situation. Never. Always a little detail here or there that gives a different direction than might be expected.
Add to that the fact that the US is picking and choosing (in a most unpredictible way) how to apply their policies and not even sticking to therm (example FAQ35 in 2009 OVDP) and the difficulty of “clear answers” becomes apparent. Nobody that I know of has indicated they felt sure of what they were doing when they made the decision to act.
Is there something about your situation that suggests your citizenship status is unclear in any way?
@LM,
Richmond Hill event will be further out of the way, but is very much worth going to if you can travel there.
I don’t live in Hamilton, but can get there.
Maybe a location of the Hamilton Public Library might be a venue for affordable room booking (note, the donation to cover costs might preclude the non-profit fee scale):
http://www.hpl.ca/sites/default/files/meeting%20room%20fees%20oct%2028%202013.pdf
http://www.hpl.ca/articles/meeting-room-rentals
http://www.bpl.on.ca/room_rentals
Burlington might also be a good option rather than Oakville? Branches nearest the GO Station might be most accessible for those who don’t/can’t drive.
There are lots of duals and USPs even further out, in Niagara as well.
@badger, LM & Cindi
There is a confirmed info session in Burlington just posted above.
March 27
6-9 pm
Burlington Public Library-Holland Room,
2331 New St,
Burlington ON L7R 1J4
Hope to see you there!
@badger, LM, Cindy and others in the area:
Niagara Falls to follow shortly.
@ Tricia/ nobledreamer
LM & hubby plan to attend the Burlington indo session on 27th & I’ve informed 2 others.
@LM
Great! Not sure if I can make it but am going to try. Hope to meet you soon & thanks for passing the word!
I was at the Montreal session too sitting next to John Richardson in the front row on the right(wearing a blue pile sweater). As to the point about the lack of clear answers I could tell from my perspective during the meeting that it was something clearly bothering many of the people in the room. Unfortunately despite the fact I have been involved in this for the better part of three years I myself don’t know what the clear answers to this problem are.
I generally agree with the sentiment expressed by John, Andrew, and Allison that at the moment there is nothing good that can come out of taking the initiative of contacting the IRS on your own unless you clearly believe you are a US citizen and currently hold a US passport AND/OR and I emphasize the AND more than the OR you have significant social ties to the US and you are strongly considering moving back to the US at some point. I the later scenario is the case something like the streamlined program is a better deal than what you would get as a US citizen living in the US.
@ Tricia/noobeldreamer
Well, while we may not meet next week, it will be good to meet at least a few of the Brocker rockers there
At these meetings, is there usually usually much presentation/discussion of the current understanding of FATCA or more focused on citizenship choices/decisions with tax forms and/or accounting/legal-help consequences?
@LM
The meetings are not about FATCA though inevitably, it comes up. The focus is much more on becoming aware of what one’s own choices could be, after a thorough understanding of citizenship status (involves knowing something of the laws as there is no one, static law about any of this; the why and when matter very much). Often, people who think/assume they are a “US Person” are likely to find out they are not. The law is one thing, what the US government and the IRS appear to present as such, is something else again.
What is great about the meetings is that the participation largely drives how much one area gets discussed and so on. Some issues about tax forms are discussed but it’s not a tutorial of how to fill out what. Again, it matters a lot to understand where one fits in time; whether one has to file 8854 depends upon (for instance) when an expatriating act occured. Since there are so many variables, it is really necessary to understand what is involved before taking action. There are no easy nor comfortable answers. Let me know if this makes sense or not.
I appreciate all the comments and also the time the speakers have taken to come speak to us.
Personally given that I have no ties to the usa and no need to go there I plan on doing nothing. If I go throught he relinquishment process then that is just advertising my existence to the IRS..why would anyone want to do that based on their previous dealings with innocent people?
My concern was how my bank would react..one thing the speakers said very little of yet could be important is will the banks close accounts in canada? It sounded like they might if you didnt sign their agreement about sharing info yet there are stories of us born people being refused accounts in some european countries..could that happen here. Again I suspect nobody knows again.
crazyworld,
http://www.cba.ca/en/consumer-information/40-banking-basics/597-fatca-and-the-canada-us-intergovernmental-agreement-iga-information-for-clients-
@All
Just back from the North Bay info sessions. It was cozy. There was me, and 2 other gentlemen and John. It wa a good discussion. One man a Canadian since the 70s, a little after arriving as a young adult. The other born In Canada to an American. It was informative and I feel calmer.
I will go to the Richmond Hill one next week. Maybe the weather was a deterrent and kept some from coming. It was snowing in the morning, stopped and is snowing again.
Looking forward to attending one of the Alberta sessions.
the prairies might be a good place to plan sessions
according to the book below at one time one-third of Saskatchewan’s
population were US born and others settled in the province after first immigrating
to the US
Border Crossings: US Culture and Education in Saskatchewan, 1905-1937
That’s interesting, Patricia. My husband “claimed” his US citizenship (which is now renounced) through his grandparents who came to the US from Finland, landing first in Minnesota, then moved to homestead in North Dakota. When my husband’s dad was four years old, he moved with his family to homestead and sod bust parts of southern Saskatchewan. All his family, including my husband’s 98 year-old mom still doing fairly well and living in Saskatoon, is sure he died without knowing he would have been considered a US citizen. He was a school teacher, interesting seeing the Table of Contents of the book below:
(My great grandparents were French Huguenots from New York State; they moved from NY to Minnesota and later homesteaded in South Dakota. My grandparents moved from South Dakota back to New York State and Washington State. The two-story South Dakota sod house that my mom lived in and was a ‘historic building’ is rapidly ‘going back to nature’ with the last person living there and maintaining that home is now in a nursing home. My husband and I travelled to South Dakota many years ago and the person I got directions from to get to the homestead (he ran the post office / store in the little community) fetched an elderly gentleman who sat us down and told me stories about my grandfather and his young family, including my mom. We also visited some of my husband’s Finnish relatives still living in North Dakota.)
In the past, I’ve provided Terry Ritchie information that was used in guest writer articles for the Saskatoon Phoenix.
My earliest French ancestor arrived in Quebec in 1619. Most were Catholics, a few others were “Calvinists” and forced to recant before the inquisition. they were approximately 10,000 pioneers who settled New Franc, virtually everyone with ancestral links to French colonial times are descended from these folks.
we are probably distant cousins. Victoria(of the flophouse) and I have a common ancestor born in 1640’s Paris
You might try to following site to track down any links to early Quebec
http://www.nosorigines.qc.ca
Fascinating, Patricia. It’s a small world — and the US may have only been a stepping stone for many of us. I will investigate further. Thanks!
@Patricia
that is so fascinating. I wish I could trace my linage. I know my grandparents came from Poland.
I was not allowed to learn to speak Polish.. My mother was very controlling and refused to let me learn.. by the time I became a young adult, my grandparents were dead. My parents are also dead. There are not records of when my grandparents came over to the usa and when they married.
It is like being an orphan.
@northernstar, with familysearch.org, ancestry.com and other sites, it is not too difficult to connect the dots. As time passes, more and more old church records are going online. Your main problem might be the bombing of Polish churches during WWII, which might have destroyed some of your family records.
My main stumbling block right now is old German. I’m having a hard time reading it.
@swisspinoy. they came as young people in their teens in the early 1900s I don’t know from where. no town to refer to . no maiden name for my grandmothers. and my mother’s father and mother were divorced when she was a baby.
@northernstar, I didn’t know anything about my great grandparents, but I was able to discover their names, the ship that they sailed on to the US, the city in Germany where they came from and I even got to know a kin of my great grandmother’s sister who lives in Los Angeles and knows some distant relatives who live in Germany. The amount of information available is amazing and you might be able to find some distant relatives in Poland who know more. The problem is that it takes time to dig up all the information and connect the dots. I’ve been taking a break but will resume researching eventually.
@swisspinoy.
I will give it a crack once FATCA settles down and resolves. I will be starting with nothing. Remember in those days. Peoples last names were changed by US customs agents to make spelling easier.
someday.
Our brethren over in Switzerland at the englishforum.ch are talking about the upcoming Info Sessions in Switzerland.
It may be worth considering to put a link to the English Forum somewhere on Brock. Americans living in Switzerland have taken the worst abuse of anyone as of yet and should serve as an indication of what will soon be coming to Canada along with the rest of the world.
http://www.englishforum.ch/finance-banking-taxation/169536-giving-up-blue-passport-because-fatca-one-member-s-experience-16.html
http://www.englishforum.ch/finance-banking-taxation/179130-american-needs-bank-3.html
@FromTheWilderness
Thanks. We had asked that the info be posted there.
For now, I put the links in a comment in Fatca and Switzerland (see sidebar). The links on the post connect to threads on Brock so can’t put there. Will check with Peter.