ADMISSION FEE $20 UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED (to cover costs)
- Toronto, ON U.S. Citizenship & Young Adults: Navigating The Special Rules Imposed On U.S.Citizens Abroad Sat, June 7, 10 am to 12 noon, Univ of Toronto, St. Michael’s College, Carr Hall, 100 St. Joseph St, MAP NB: $20 individual or $40 for a family of up to four people
Vancouver notes (Feb 22) Updated on March 28 here
Toronto group Saturday, January 25, 2014, Carr Hall
I received the following announcement about information sessions, provided by Toronto based lawyer, for people affected by the USA’s extra-territorial tax overreach which violates Canada’s sovereignty. I think it is a good idea. If you are an alleged US person and you have become aware that the US claims that you should be filing your taxes, please do nothing, do not enter the OVDI program, and above all, do not call a US cross border tax specialist (neither a lawyer nor an accountant), but educate yourself first. The paid experts will scare the hell out of you. There are many options besides allowing a cross border specialist lead you as a lamb to the slaughter.
If you are a Canadian citizen or resident of Canada, you have specific rights and protections that even FATCA cannot revoke. This is why these informational sessions will be useful to you. They will lay out and explore all your options.
Sincerely, Petros
Please note that the speaker would like help finding venues that are inexpensive or free. Perhaps those living in the various cities could ask if a Church or other may be able to offer space. Please keep returning for updates.
Here is the announcement:
Recent CBC Coverage of FATCA and Citizenship-based taxation:
The recent CBC coverage of FATCA and U.S. extraterritorial taxation has raised awareness/concern over the plight of Canadian citizens of U.S. origin. Those who are learning about this for the first time (the OMG moment) will be experiencing a combination of shock, fear, betrayal and more. There will be lots of people interested in understanding the situation and determining whether and/or how to respond.
The following comment appeared on the blog:
Looks like the recent media coverage is creating mass panic in Canada. This might force the Canadian government to issue a statement sooner rather than later. This is good. But I feel bad for the people who are just having their OMG moment. They need some sound advice as to not to make bad decisions which would devastate them financially. While each situation is different, the Canadian government owes it to affected Canadians to provide some guidance and advice and fast. It needs to be official cannot just come from web sites like IBS or Maple Sandbox. Maybe the administrators should add some notes like they can’t be held responsible for actions that people take by following advice on these blogs. This is common sense, but might protect you from lawsuits.
We agree! The important thing it to stay calm! Do NOT panic! Do not react to this situation! Take your time to make the decisions that are appropriate to your situation! Above all else, do NOT even consider entering the Offshore Voluntary Disclosure Program or any other kind of disclosure program unless you are certain that it is right for you (which it almost certainly is NOT)!
Obviously NO blog or web site can provide reliable legal advice. No seminar for the general public can provide reliable legal advice! Your job is simply to begin gathering information and beginning to understand the new reality of U.S. citizenship.
What follows are a list of “Solving The Problems of U.S. Citizenship” information sessions that you can attend, for a nominal fee and anonymously! The sessions are NOT intended to provide legal advice. But, they are intended to help you identify the issues that may apply to your situation.
Do NOT engage the services of an accountant or lawyer before equipping yourself with some basic knowledge!
Solving The Problems of U.S. Citizenship – Exploratory Sessions
The topics covered are designed to alert you to issues and are NOT offered as legal or accounting advice specific to your situation.
They include:
Citizenship Issues:
– Are you STILL a U.S. citizen?
– Are your children U.S. citizens?
– What might FATCA mean for me?
Tax Issues
– Filing U.S. tax returns – what’s involved?
– Filing information returns (FBAR, Form 3520, 5471, etc.)
– Reasonable cause (avoiding penalties)
Financial Planning Issues
– investment products that are cancerous for U.S. citizens
Does it make sense to renounce U.S. citizenship?
– Renouncing U.S. citizenship
____________________________________________________________________
How To Attend …
Once a session has been marked “CONFIRMED” you are free to attend. Each session will have a $20 admission fee (to offset the cost of the room) which is payable in cash at the door. Neither taping nor video of any kind will be permitted.
first published 14 January 2014
@Calgary Teacher
April 19
Trisha,
I’ll be going to the Moodys seminar this afternoon with IsaacBrockSociety.ca cards in hand, my phone number and dates for Calgary and Edmonton information sessions.
@calgary
Fantastic! Thanks!!
the last time this ostrich conversation came up here it was determined that we who choose to not comply with big brother were wrongly being called ostrich’s but rather should be called honey badgers.
all @usxcanada and others like him/her ‘s coments, links and what not only serve to reinforce that what my decision is is the right one FOR ME. and only for me no one else. we each have our own unique set of circumstances and personal levels of comfort for doing things. there is no right nor wrong answer to this question. only us having to look in the mirror everymorning and confirm that yes we woke up and yes this is another day of living with our decision.
i don’t have an iphone, don’t have a facebook account, nor a twitter account, only have a minimal internet presence, the last time i had anything from america go through my bank account was 5 or 6 years ago and it was only one cheque.
i took out canadian citizenship in 1980 and left america for good in in 1989. (i was in my 20’s during the 80’s and was going to school in the states and working in canada to pay for school) i have zero ties anymore to the states and if a bank ask me to sign a w8 or 9 i will glady self certify that i am no longer an american person. if the bank, or either canadian or us gov’t wants to refute that certification they can take me to court.
until i am standing in front of a judge and in fact even after i am standing in front of a judge i am maintaining the fact that i am a canadian first and only.
so to all the honey badger dismissers please keep your attitudes and beliefs to your self. we are all in this mess together and we are all trying to make the best decision only for our selves and no one else because like i said before we are the ones that have to live with our decisions and no one else.
if complying works for you great. no attitude or name calling from me. it is a decision that i am sure was not taken lightly and your decision work for you. great. my decision was not taken lightly however my decision works for me and only me!!
@WhiteKat, wild turkeys are far more wily than people believe. So, perhaps a wild turkey – native to North America, is an apt bird after all.
They received a personal endorsement from Benjamin Franklin;
“..Benjamin Franklin referred to turkeys as “a bird of courage. He suggested that the turkey rather than the eagle be the national symbol of the USA.”
http://www.think-differently-about-sheep.com/sentience%20in%20farm%20animals%20poultry%20turkeys.htm
http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~insrisg/nature/nw98/franklinturkey.html
There are testimonials as to the intelligence of the wild turkey, and why we should admire them:
http://www.vanwaffle.com/2012/07/24/illuminating-turkey-intelligence/
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/my-life-as-a-turkey/introduction/7268/
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/inside-nature/eagles-turkeys-and-america/7083/
http://www.cok.net/blog/2012/11/under-feathers-curiosity-intelligence-and-personality-turkeys/#
Absolutely, mettleman. Everyone of us has to make our own best-for-us decision on how to go forward with some kind of normalcy in our lives. I know in my gut your decision was arrived at through much research and much thought for you and your family. It is what we all must do in the decisions we make — with our eyes wide open. That is not being an ostrich. I will be in front of that judge with you and my son, forever maintaining you are both Canadian only.
Hunkering down and saying, FU, is very different than pretending like nothing is happening.
The first approach is refusing to play ball in a dirty game.
The second approach is self-denying that such a game even exists.
There are more than 500 comments on this blog posting. So, excuse me if this question has been asked/answered before.
Are there any thoughts to schedule an event in Ottawa?
Many thanks.
FromTheWilderness,
Bingo!
@FromTheWilderness “The first approach is refusing to play ball in a dirty game”
yup 100%
and
if the IRS or american gov’t wants me to play their dirty little game they are going to have to do so with me kicking and screaming the whole way.
I’m a honey badger turkey too. I’m not pretending that this does not exist or that its all a bad dream. I will fight and kick and scream as well. Not gonna comply, you bastards “not gon doit!”
All the links about them using passports to enforce tax compliance only apply to American passports which just reinforces my position that I am Canadian and I won’t ever travel on an American passport, so thumb to the nose to them!
IMPORTANT:
The Vancouver info session this Saturday is being relocated to a larger space near the previous location! The new location is the Symphony banquet room at the Westin Grand, two blocks north of the original location at 433 Robson St (between Homer and Robson).
oops, forgot to mention the new time of 1:30!
Turtle. Pull in, go slow, stay protected, live long.
@bubblebustin
Someone needs to change the header of the thread.
@Joe Smith I like that one!
@WildCat Whitecat…
No one could ever accuse you of ostrich behavior! 🙂 You are just a realist with your eyes wide open and speaking out!
@badger
A turkey is better than an eagle, because they all seem to be in a tryptophan-like induced sleep.
@ ALL
I was beginning to detect a slump in our fighting spirit here and it’s so good to see it is coming back. Thank you usxcanada for bringing out the best of us and the best in us. I think this time your kick us when we’re down play (on words) is only going to make us play tougher, longer. Anyway, we all need to do what is best for ourselves. Comply doesn’t work for me but it works for my husband. As uncertain as we both are about how much the USA will escalate its FATCA attacks, we are both certain that we are doing what we are doing with our eyes wide open. I’m not sure what kind of birds my husband and I could be likened to … old crows maybe?
http://www.birdclan.org/crow.html
“When you learn to allow your personal integrity to be your guide, your sense of feeling alone will vanish. Your personal will can then emerge so that you will stand in your truth. The prime path of true Crow people says to be mindful of your opinions and actions. Be willing to walk your talk, speak your truth, know your life’s mission, and balance past, present, and future in the now. Shape shift that old reality and become your future self. Allow the bending of physical laws to aid in creating the shape shifted world of peace.”
With regards to the above, I am still in favor of renouncing or relinquishing US citizenshit because it brings more, if not complete, closure to the issue.
However, the USG can never be trusted and I wouldn’t put it past them to attempt to claw back its former citizens. The British used to practice something like this a long time ago. It was called “impressment.”
In any case, everyone is fighting against tyranny in their own way, including those who are just trying to keep their US personhood hidden in the closet. I respect that.
@ Em
not a slump just a regrouping. imho anyways.
the febuary announcemnet of the iga signing came and i think that took a bit of wind out of our sails but then many of us quickly realized that the war is not over and that this was just a battle we lost.
on the up side of this agreement being signed there are now more people than ever that are coming here and learning about fatca and all its issues and concerns.
daily i speak to people who have either had an omg moment or at least have heard something about fatca and want to know more. when they chat to me for a while they are in shock but due to this website and the education it has given me i am able to inteligently answer most of their questions and then direct them here or to the internet to find out more explict answers.
as to people like @usxcanada and thier ilk all they do is make my resolve to fight this fatca thing all that much stronger. they seem to troll around here for a bit and then grow tired of being proven wrong on the points they are making. i believe most of them are not in the position of having to choose to renounce/relinquish or never cross the border again and if they were in that position they maybe would have some empathy with those of us who do have to make that decision.
but then again they are perhaps only seeing this issue from the homelanders point of view and can not understand how or why someone would not want to ever not want to live or vist the states ever again.
@calgary411
Like you, my mother (apart from being sarcastic – we all learned it from her) is not one to take anything lying down. I’m pretty sure she would have done the exact same thing.
My heart goes out to you. I am aghast at the business of your not being able to renounce on behalf of your son. How terribly unjust.
Reading your story prompted me to take a recheck to make sure my own adult daughter wouldn’t qualify as a citizen. Thankfully she dodged that bullet by my having only lived south of the border prior to my 14th birthday. I’m pretty sure I checked this out around the time she was born but with the way things are always changing I needed the peace of mind. I’m not so sure about my sister’s kids, though. She went to university in the States for a few years, and probably even has a SSN. If my nephews are indeed considered citizens by birth (to one U.S. citizen parent) I’m pretty sure she isn’t aware of it.
Anyway, I suppose someone has to stand up and be brave and I for one am grateful you came out and told your story. My troubles seem trivial in comparison.
“as to people like @usxcanada and thier ilk all they do is make my resolve to fight this fatca thing all that much stronger. they seem to troll around here for a bit and then grow tired of being proven wrong on the points they are making. i believe most of them are not in the position of having to choose to renounce/relinquish or never cross the border again and if they were in that position they maybe would have some empathy with those of us who do have to make that decision.”
Perhaps a little bit harsh?
IMO, USX has made many good comments here, sometimes a bit pompous, but definitely very good food for thought. Particularly, “sauve qui peut” (every man for himself) which is in reality correct because US expats have almost zero political power as a group (up to now anyway) as they have no direct representation in the US and are scattered all over the planet. Not to mention, being forced to keep their US personhood hidden from others.
Sounds like your mom and I would get along just fine, Wren. Each of our stories has its own twists and turns — and none of our stories are trivial. I’m glad to see that you went back to read a little of January’s history. There is so much to learn, even from way way back, on this whole site. I sometimes feel as if I’m telling my story over and over and over and I know that some people get really tired of “hearing it” one more time. You’ve proven that there are newcomers coming here all the time, and some of them haven’t heard my never-ending ramblings — or others’ stories.
Take good care. Get all your family’s ducks in a row so you know exactly how any of this can affect any member of your own family. Best to you!
An informed newsletter writer just sent this to me
“the US will not sign on
that is the big factor
we dont want requisite reciprocity
/ jim