ADMISSION FEE $20 UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED (to cover costs)
- Toronto, ON U.S. Citizenship & Young Adults: Navigating The Special Rules Imposed On U.S.Citizens Abroad Sat, June 7, 10 am to 12 noon, Univ of Toronto, St. Michael’s College, Carr Hall, 100 St. Joseph St, MAP NB: $20 individual or $40 for a family of up to four people
Vancouver notes (Feb 22) Updated on March 28 here
Toronto group Saturday, January 25, 2014, Carr Hall
I received the following announcement about information sessions, provided by Toronto based lawyer, for people affected by the USA’s extra-territorial tax overreach which violates Canada’s sovereignty. I think it is a good idea. If you are an alleged US person and you have become aware that the US claims that you should be filing your taxes, please do nothing, do not enter the OVDI program, and above all, do not call a US cross border tax specialist (neither a lawyer nor an accountant), but educate yourself first. The paid experts will scare the hell out of you. There are many options besides allowing a cross border specialist lead you as a lamb to the slaughter.
If you are a Canadian citizen or resident of Canada, you have specific rights and protections that even FATCA cannot revoke. This is why these informational sessions will be useful to you. They will lay out and explore all your options.
Sincerely, Petros
Please note that the speaker would like help finding venues that are inexpensive or free. Perhaps those living in the various cities could ask if a Church or other may be able to offer space. Please keep returning for updates.
Here is the announcement:
Recent CBC Coverage of FATCA and Citizenship-based taxation:
The recent CBC coverage of FATCA and U.S. extraterritorial taxation has raised awareness/concern over the plight of Canadian citizens of U.S. origin. Those who are learning about this for the first time (the OMG moment) will be experiencing a combination of shock, fear, betrayal and more. There will be lots of people interested in understanding the situation and determining whether and/or how to respond.
The following comment appeared on the blog:
Looks like the recent media coverage is creating mass panic in Canada. This might force the Canadian government to issue a statement sooner rather than later. This is good. But I feel bad for the people who are just having their OMG moment. They need some sound advice as to not to make bad decisions which would devastate them financially. While each situation is different, the Canadian government owes it to affected Canadians to provide some guidance and advice and fast. It needs to be official cannot just come from web sites like IBS or Maple Sandbox. Maybe the administrators should add some notes like they can’t be held responsible for actions that people take by following advice on these blogs. This is common sense, but might protect you from lawsuits.
We agree! The important thing it to stay calm! Do NOT panic! Do not react to this situation! Take your time to make the decisions that are appropriate to your situation! Above all else, do NOT even consider entering the Offshore Voluntary Disclosure Program or any other kind of disclosure program unless you are certain that it is right for you (which it almost certainly is NOT)!
Obviously NO blog or web site can provide reliable legal advice. No seminar for the general public can provide reliable legal advice! Your job is simply to begin gathering information and beginning to understand the new reality of U.S. citizenship.
What follows are a list of “Solving The Problems of U.S. Citizenship” information sessions that you can attend, for a nominal fee and anonymously! The sessions are NOT intended to provide legal advice. But, they are intended to help you identify the issues that may apply to your situation.
Do NOT engage the services of an accountant or lawyer before equipping yourself with some basic knowledge!
Solving The Problems of U.S. Citizenship – Exploratory Sessions
The topics covered are designed to alert you to issues and are NOT offered as legal or accounting advice specific to your situation.
They include:
Citizenship Issues:
– Are you STILL a U.S. citizen?
– Are your children U.S. citizens?
– What might FATCA mean for me?
Tax Issues
– Filing U.S. tax returns – what’s involved?
– Filing information returns (FBAR, Form 3520, 5471, etc.)
– Reasonable cause (avoiding penalties)
Financial Planning Issues
– investment products that are cancerous for U.S. citizens
Does it make sense to renounce U.S. citizenship?
– Renouncing U.S. citizenship
____________________________________________________________________
How To Attend …
Once a session has been marked “CONFIRMED” you are free to attend. Each session will have a $20 admission fee (to offset the cost of the room) which is payable in cash at the door. Neither taping nor video of any kind will be permitted.
first published 14 January 2014
recommend Oslo after Germany
@Wren There will be information sessions in AB. See below. There will be some in April so sit tight 🙂
Calgary, April 19, TBA
Edmonton, April 20, TBA
@Mark,
exactly.
Walking into a consulate to renounce or relinquish may seem scary. But if a person really wants to be free, sometimes you just gotta say “WTF” and get it over with ……..
@GwEvil
Info sessions in AB – Really? Great! My sister is an unwitting fugitive and tax evader, too, so I guess I’ll be bringing the whole family.
I am originally from AB, so my family will hopefully be going in Edmonton. We are a bunch of fugitive tax evaders too, including my 80 year old mother.
@Wren,
Plagiarize away! No apology required for the name mix up. Bubblebustin is right, WildKat is a better fit anyway.
@Bubblebustin. LOL.
@CheersBigEars. Thank you for the gold suggestions. My spouse and I have been seriously thinking about this. We are not rich by any means, but sold our house a couple years ago in a lower priced city, to move to Ottawa which has a much higher priced housing market. We could buy back in with a mortgage which would take care of any FATCA reporting problems, but hate to do that in what appears to be a very large bubble…been there, done that in 1989. BTW, sorry for biting your head off the other night when WildKat came out with the full moon. You haven’t said anything, so maybe you didn’t notice, or you were just too polite to mention it.
@Em,
Let’s face it Em, concessions are likely the most we are ever going to get out of our current government. Sure, it would have been great if they’d had the balls to say ‘NO’ to FATCA, but obviously they do not, so what would be so bad about a tax break to cover the compliance costs, in return for ensuring (via renunciation) that there will be no more drain of Canadian assets to the USA other than the initial compliance costs to catch up on back filing. Of course the Canadian government could not actually say that it was buying us off (since we are not allowed to renounce for tax reasons), but that would be the effect for most Canadians caught up in this mess – i.e they would renounce.
Risk of penalties and outrageous ‘catch-up’, compliance costs are the main reasons those that are not in compliance are keeping their US citizenship; they don’t want it, but cannot afford to get rid of it any more than they can afford to keep it. In the long run, Canada would be better off to rid itself of toxic US persons, so think of the lost tax revenue for one year for those who take up the government on the offer, as more like an investment in Canada’s future, rather than a sunk cost.
Em @ WhiteKat
I just don’t see the Canadian gov’t (i.e. Canadian taxpayers) paying for the compliance costs of USPs. And compliance costs paid in return for a person renouncing? Yipes, you can’t have the Canadian gov’t essentially bribing its residents to give up their US citizenship. I suppose Canada could make it illegal to have dual status in Canada (some countries insist on that) but that would send some of our most valuable residents back to the USA, taking everything they have saved from their earnings in Canada with them (less the exit tax, of course). I think the Canadian gov’t would figure that out pretty quickly. It would be a huge economic loss and a loss to society too. And in the case of dual marriages, it would mean family break-ups. Not good, not good at all.
If the Canadian gov’t wants to have a serious rethink and tell the banks they they are forbidden to report on anyone whose residence is in Canada (i.e. whose tax home is in Canada) then that would be great. It could have done this sort of forced RBT on our banks but it didn’t do it. Also tax breaks, if they are merely a tax deduction, are completely useless to anyone who doesn’t earn enough to be taxed and that leaves them paying the compliance costs while being the least able to afford them.
@GwEvil:
“I am originally from AB, so my family will hopefully be going in Edmonton. We are a bunch of fugitive tax evaders too, including my 80 year old mother.” – Ha! Mine is in her 70s and we have to keep a close eye on her lest she overshoot the yellow line when she’s parking or, god forbid, make a sarcastic remark.
@Wren
70’s… that is young… after 80’s… they don’t care what u think.. they will do whatever they want & say whatever they want. Its worse if they are driving… fast in slow area… slow in fast area… basically… they just want to flip the bird to anyone… lol
And, in their 70’s, they have CBC interviews and give their name, no longer caring — just wanting some justice. Reckless indeed.
@calgary411 watch those sarcastic remarks there, young lady!
@US_Foreigner_Person
You make 80 sound kinda awesome. 🙂
@calgary411
Did that really happen? If so, I’d like to watch. Then give them a big hug.
@WhiteKat
No I must have missed it. I find I can’t live on this thread as it affects my BP and the only way to get it to come down is Viagra 😉
Check this out
EU Eyes Confiscation of Personal Savings, Pension Plans
http://www.infowars.com/eu-eyes-confiscation-of-personal-savings-pension-plans/
Got gold everyone?
Wren,
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/02/02/allison-christians-was-right-mr-mahany-the-annual-cost-of-filing-u-s-taxes-can-be-astronomical-accounting-firms-estimate-the-cost-of-filing-personal-u-s-taxes-can-be-anywhere-f/comment-page-3/#comment-1070218
and
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/02/02/allison-christians-was-right-mr-mahany-the-annual-cost-of-filing-u-s-taxes-can-be-astronomical-accounting-firms-estimate-the-cost-of-filing-personal-u-s-taxes-can-be-anywhere-f/comment-page-3/#comment-1071159.
You can read some of CBC and other Canadian coverage in the links here: RepealFATCA: Anti-FATCA Campaign Picking Up Visibility in US and Canada. It was exciting few days of Canadian media coverage.
That is what I did — that is not what everyone, especially you, should do at this point. It was a lot easier given my circumstances and my crusty old age.
Pair that with the latest: Another from Canadian Cop: Canada an Easy Mark for the continuing saga of the reality of what is happening to me, to my son, to you, to one million or so others in our country, let alone the number around the world by their governments’ complicity with the US IRS.
PYYJ & the Sit-Tight Ostrich Chorus –
File these 3 factoids into your subterranean brains –
800 brand-new IRS agents looking for … YOU
http://usxcanada.wordpress.com/2012/07/16/2012-july-16-mcgurn/
The swill-the-krill strategy of OVDP
Patrick W. Martin. The 2013 GAO report of the IRS Offshore Voluntary Disclosure Program (10 Jan 2014) 25 p.
http://www.procopio.com/userfiles/file/assets/files1/the-2013-gao-report-of-the-irs-ovdp-2739.pdf
Passport-based IRS enforcement
United States. Government Accountability Office. Potential for using passport issuance to increase collection of unpaid taxes (Mar 2011) i, 22 p.
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d11272/pdf
usxcanada,
I could only access the second link. The McGurn one required a login and it wanted too much information — I did read it previously. The GAO item – File Not Found.
GAO has moved the Passport Issuance – use this url instead
http://www.gao.gov/assets/320/316478.pdf
@usxcanada
Yes, good links for the ostrich crowd that feels concerns are figments of imagination.
That Patrick Martin analysis of the GAO Report has been sent to a WSJ reporter I have been talking to about the OVDP ‘grind up the minnows for fertilizer’ program. It is a good one, and really just builds on Eric’s analysis way back here…
I see he came close to my analysis that Penalties represent 66.1% of the total revenues they trumpeted ‘as success’ in collections. He said it was 64%, so close enough, and I won’t quibble.
I especially chuckled about this comment…
Yah – scrap that link to the WSJ article and read the document it was based on:
Levelling the playing field: curbing tax havens and removing tax incentives for shifting jobs overseas (6 May 2009)
http://www.domain-b.com/finance/banks/20090506_curbing_tax_6.html
Gold mine for nightmares
@usxcanada
Note for the ostrich crowd, on how the IRS is reorganizing to better audit FATCA, FBAR and withholding agents..
http://www.fsitaxposts.com/2014/02/19/irs-foreign-payments-practice-division-affects-compliance-withholding-agents/#respond.
I’ve been checking almost daily for a Calgary date. Will be there for sure!
@usxcanada
“File these 3 factoids into your subterranean brains ”
thanks for these links….your care and concern for our decision to remain burried rather than stand up and say here we are is overwhelming this morning.
all these say to me is never cross the border and just sit tight and make the suckers really really work to find me if they can 🙂
@Mettleman,
I agree. I am neither pushover, nor ostrich. Listening to USX feels like listening to the compliance condors whereas listening to DukeofDevon feels like listening to a patronizing father who is ‘pooh poohing’ my fears. There has to be a middle ground – taking cover, fighting FATCA anyway you can, and refusing to pay extortionist fees to the compliance industry. This approach does not equate to being an ostrich in my book, and neither does it equate to allowing yourself to be, in Canadian Cop’s words, ‘an easy mark’.
Maybe we need a new bird analogy for those like myself, and Mettleman, who refuse to stick our heads in the sand (thus are not ostriches), yet refuse to be extorted by the lawyers, accountants, and IRS. Any suggestions? I was thinking Canadian goose (yet to be goosed, but time will tell), or wild turkey (not yet caught, thus not yet roasted).