ADMISSION FEE $20 UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED (to cover costs)
- Toronto, ON U.S. Citizenship & Young Adults: Navigating The Special Rules Imposed On U.S.Citizens Abroad Sat, June 7, 10 am to 12 noon, Univ of Toronto, St. Michael’s College, Carr Hall, 100 St. Joseph St, MAP NB: $20 individual or $40 for a family of up to four people
Vancouver notes (Feb 22) Updated on March 28 here
Toronto group Saturday, January 25, 2014, Carr Hall
I received the following announcement about information sessions, provided by Toronto based lawyer, for people affected by the USA’s extra-territorial tax overreach which violates Canada’s sovereignty. I think it is a good idea. If you are an alleged US person and you have become aware that the US claims that you should be filing your taxes, please do nothing, do not enter the OVDI program, and above all, do not call a US cross border tax specialist (neither a lawyer nor an accountant), but educate yourself first. The paid experts will scare the hell out of you. There are many options besides allowing a cross border specialist lead you as a lamb to the slaughter.
If you are a Canadian citizen or resident of Canada, you have specific rights and protections that even FATCA cannot revoke. This is why these informational sessions will be useful to you. They will lay out and explore all your options.
Sincerely, Petros
Please note that the speaker would like help finding venues that are inexpensive or free. Perhaps those living in the various cities could ask if a Church or other may be able to offer space. Please keep returning for updates.
Here is the announcement:
Recent CBC Coverage of FATCA and Citizenship-based taxation:
The recent CBC coverage of FATCA and U.S. extraterritorial taxation has raised awareness/concern over the plight of Canadian citizens of U.S. origin. Those who are learning about this for the first time (the OMG moment) will be experiencing a combination of shock, fear, betrayal and more. There will be lots of people interested in understanding the situation and determining whether and/or how to respond.
The following comment appeared on the blog:
Looks like the recent media coverage is creating mass panic in Canada. This might force the Canadian government to issue a statement sooner rather than later. This is good. But I feel bad for the people who are just having their OMG moment. They need some sound advice as to not to make bad decisions which would devastate them financially. While each situation is different, the Canadian government owes it to affected Canadians to provide some guidance and advice and fast. It needs to be official cannot just come from web sites like IBS or Maple Sandbox. Maybe the administrators should add some notes like they can’t be held responsible for actions that people take by following advice on these blogs. This is common sense, but might protect you from lawsuits.
We agree! The important thing it to stay calm! Do NOT panic! Do not react to this situation! Take your time to make the decisions that are appropriate to your situation! Above all else, do NOT even consider entering the Offshore Voluntary Disclosure Program or any other kind of disclosure program unless you are certain that it is right for you (which it almost certainly is NOT)!
Obviously NO blog or web site can provide reliable legal advice. No seminar for the general public can provide reliable legal advice! Your job is simply to begin gathering information and beginning to understand the new reality of U.S. citizenship.
What follows are a list of “Solving The Problems of U.S. Citizenship” information sessions that you can attend, for a nominal fee and anonymously! The sessions are NOT intended to provide legal advice. But, they are intended to help you identify the issues that may apply to your situation.
Do NOT engage the services of an accountant or lawyer before equipping yourself with some basic knowledge!
Solving The Problems of U.S. Citizenship – Exploratory Sessions
The topics covered are designed to alert you to issues and are NOT offered as legal or accounting advice specific to your situation.
They include:
Citizenship Issues:
– Are you STILL a U.S. citizen?
– Are your children U.S. citizens?
– What might FATCA mean for me?
Tax Issues
– Filing U.S. tax returns – what’s involved?
– Filing information returns (FBAR, Form 3520, 5471, etc.)
– Reasonable cause (avoiding penalties)
Financial Planning Issues
– investment products that are cancerous for U.S. citizens
Does it make sense to renounce U.S. citizenship?
– Renouncing U.S. citizenship
____________________________________________________________________
How To Attend …
Once a session has been marked “CONFIRMED” you are free to attend. Each session will have a $20 admission fee (to offset the cost of the room) which is payable in cash at the door. Neither taping nor video of any kind will be permitted.
first published 14 January 2014
Interesting idea and a potentially useful service. Do we have the name of the lawyer, and a web link, so interested persons can check the lawyer’s or law firm’s website and form whatever opinions they wish about the lawyer’s credentials, should they be so inclined?
I would hope the lawyer will also raise the “relinquishment” as well as renunciation route for getting a CLN, for anyone who attends and who might qualify for that potentially less expensive route.
@Schubert, the lawyer is someone known to all of us, who has held informational sessions for us in the past. He wants however to keep his name off the post for now.
@Petros
THose who wish to attend should check this post to find out where? Does one have to reserve?
Excellent, excellent, including the lawyer who will be involved. Thanks for starting the ball rolling on this. People who are just finding out from all of yesterday’s excellent CBC coverage need to know there are resources to search (their drudge work) and read to make themselves more knowledgeable and better able to make difficult decisions. As or even more important is the moral support those who have been going through this for longer periods of time can offer.
@Northernstar, I haven’t work that one out. But why not? It will require perusing the comments to determine a tally however.
We will attend and can give others a ride from the London area when it is announced.
Good idea. An alternative to the fee hungry marketing messages so common amongst compliance complex attorneys looking to cash in. Thanks for posting this.
A wonderful idea. Thanks Petros, our mystery lawyer and those who’ll help make this happen. If you save even one person from unnecessary suffering, you’re time will have been well spent.
Here is why folks need alternate advice about what to do..
Todays coverage on Mike Galloway…
IRS forgiving? Now we have a Tax practitioner on air telling Accidental Americans “you must comply” “Get in while the Getting is good! ”
http://www.cbc.ca/metromorning/episodes/2014/01/14/irs-forgiving/
All Points West (CBC in Victoria) just played the piece with the tax practitioner. I’ve chosen to follow Flaherty/Jacobson’s advice of a couple of years ago and ‘sit tight’.
I’d be very interested in a session in Vancouver (or Victoria!). Thanks to all Brocker’s for getting this front and centre in the media this week! My heart races just a bit faster with hopeful anticipation!
@Fifi
I believe we’re seeing the beginnings of a vocal tax resistance movement.
Thank you for telling us about the broadcast in Victoria. Do you have a link?
I can offer a venue in downtown Vancouver that could accommodate 35 people, for minimal cost (about $100 total).
My feelings are a mix of hope tempered by cynicism and maybe a little dread 🙂
Sorry Fifi, I guess we have the link already, thanks.
The guest on this follow up interview (to Gwen’s interview yesterday) says that in his experience the IRS waives the FBAR penalties. This is contrary to what I have been reading on IBS etc. Do people have direct knowledge (personal or otherwise) where the IRS has or has not waived FBAR penalties? What if an accountant tells you “don’t worry, the penalties will be waived” and then the IRS does NOT waive them. That would be my fear.
If someone was willing to voluntarily come forward and “get into the system” with one of these accountants who promises no FBAR penalties, would a good approach be to have him sign a legal contract (done by a neutral third party lawyer) stating that if the IRS does not waive the FBAR penalties (which sound financially devastating) then the accountant’s firm is responsible for paying them (not the US person client)? (I’m betting the accountant would not agree to signing such a contract.)
@Mr. A, why are you worried? You are your own worst enemy. I would not enter any program at all. Just go to a Consulate and get yourself free. You are not a citizen of Canadian dominant nationality and likely a Canadian citizen from birth. Do not under any circumstances join an amnesty program. Do not file an FBAR if you are afraid, because the information can only be used against you. As for your travels to the US, make sure you don’t get an expensive cruise that leaves from a US destination, or try to fly to Europe or something in transit through the US. Just fly direct. Because the US could abruptly cancel your travel plans if you don’t travel on a US passport. Get all your assets out of the US if you have any there. Keep US equities out of your stock portfolio, etc.
@Mr A
You ask some very important and relevant questions. The IRS does have the discretion to waive FBAR penalties, and I have reason to believe that benign actors will be treated appropriately (not like those in the 2009 OVDP). I am in OVDI and if I ever hear from the IRS (14 months and counting and they haven’t processed half the participants yet), I will likely opt out and make a reasonable cause plea to have the FBAR penalties waived, as well as the penalties associated with the tax I owe, under the provisions of the Internal Revenue Manual. As it stands now to become tax compliant, if you don’t qualify for the narrowly defined Streamlined Program, you are warned against entering anything other than OVDP, where you will then have to opt out of to be relieved of your FBAR penalties. Only the IRS could invent something this convoluted. Good luck!
@Mr. A
If you desire to be compliant for reasons that only you know, I would NOT rely on a CPAs assurances.
There have been some indications that folks who enter the Streamline OVDP that don’t perfectly fit the profile the program lays out, are still getting some discretion from the IRS as to penalties, but you NEVER KNOW.
Once you enter anything, they are assuming your guilt, and it is up to you to make the case why penalties should NOT apply to you and it is up to them to determine what they want to do. No CPA in his right mind would give you a guarantee
At this stage, you are FAR from making any decision related to fear of penalties, and you need to be examining the value of that U.S. Penalty Club membership. Spend more time here, and less talking with a CPA, and you will arrive at a better decision for yourself than relying on the ‘so called’ experts.
If attendence is good, maybe a few uf us could be on hand to help with questions, etc. Nametags or whatever………would be a little more interesting for us “oldies” if we could be involved somehow.
count me in for one in vancouver if that were to happen
Thanks for all the extraordinary wisdom and input. I am only just learning what lurks behind all the acronyms.
Any information sessions planned for Ottawa?
Also, does anyone know if there is any move is afoot to launch either a class action lawsuit against the US government (and I would hold the Canadian government culpable as well) or taking this challenge to the Canadian Supreme Court for a test case about violation of privacy and sovereignty rights? I would be willing to lend any assistance in this fight as I now weigh my options how to move forward or sit tight.
I am willing to offer voluntary help with anything you need…. just fire me an email and you got it.
@Tangogirl The one thing, as a spouse of an accidental US person I wonder one simple thing. To start off, the US kept the filing requirements a secret to my wife until, just after they raised the penalties incredibly. Now we know the US is coming, well, nobody told me, and there was nothing in Canada’s matrimonial laws that say I need to give my personal data to the IRS. My question is simple, who do I sue? My wife didn’t know, did the Canadian government? I think spouses of US persons have a huge class action lawsuit to file here as well…. wow, this is going to get costly to the Canadian government…I think we all are waiting for these lawsuits to start right after any kind of deal is signed tossing us all into the devil’s fire…
Isaac Brock has hit 10,000 page views today. A new all time high.
@Petros
Wow! Brock rocks!!!
NativeCanadian, my husband was angry but is simply now determined that his rights as a Canadian only citizen will not be violated by FATCA. But until the govt signs the IGA and the compliance begins to roll out – it’s hard to know exactly what to do. And the rights of spouses of USC’s (particularly those who are the primary or only breadwinners) haven’t really been discussed. Even the douches at the CBA have been curiously silent on the subject.
I think the advice to do nothing is good at this point. Particularly for newbies. There is nothing to be gained by panic and hasty decisions especially since the IRS likely has no clue who most or any of you are. Your current anonymity buys you time to learn, wait, see and make plans when the appropriate time presents.
@Petros
Amazing! Do you think we would have believed that possible, 2 years ago?