The inter-governmental agreement (IGA) between the USA and Canada which will enforce FATCA in Canada has an interesting line on page 27:
With respect to New Individual Accounts not described in paragraph A of this section, upon account opening (or within 90 days after the end of the calendar year in which the account ceases to be described in paragraph A of this section), the Reporting Canadian Financial Institution must obtain a self-certification, which may be part of the account opening documentation, that allows the Reporting Canadian Financial Institution to determine whether the Account Holder is resident in the United States for tax purposes (for this purpose, a U.S. citizen is considered to be resident in the United States for tax purposes, even if the Account Holder is also a tax resident of another jurisdiction) and confirm the reasonableness of such self-certification based on the information obtained by the Reporting Canadian Financial Institution in connection with the opening of the account, including any documentation collected pursuant to AML/KYC Procedures.
We have to understand that US tax code treats US persons (i.e., US citizens and permanent residents) who live abroad as resident in Washington DC. The IGA appears to acknowledge this fiction, saying that for tax purposes a US citizen is resident in the USA, their Canadian residence and citizenship notwithstanding. The Tory government has now accepted the US fiction that US citizens abroad are not entitled to representation because they are resident in Washington DC. This amounts to financially kidnapping Canadian citizens and turning them over to a foreign government. Such an action by the Harper government is treason. Please contradict me if I am wrong.
@Petros
Right, are the DC garbage trucks going to come up and pick up my garbage in the great white north?
Our Canadian politicans enabled the DC politicans to kidnap. They gave us up so readily, like Chamberlain.
Tweeter, @MiaChupacabra, doesn’t think the picture is accurate. Anyone disagree with him/her?
https://twitter.com/MiaChupacabra/status/433594158121357312
My first thought is that the morons who run our country figured that capitulating to FATCA was going to be Canada’s crafty quid pro quo for approval of Keystone XL. How foolish. XL will never happen as long as any Democrat is in the White House. In the meantime, Canada hasn’t so much sold its sovereignty as it has simply given it away – while pissing its pants at gunpoint. There was no “deal” here – it was a shakedown pure and simple and now ALL Canadians will pay the price in perpetuity – or at least until some real leadership emerges in this country. Hopefully our Supreme Court will have more cojones than our pathetic Prime Minister has shown.
I think you are reading it correctly and doesn’t it also basically say that all Canadians opening an account are going to have to declare their citizenship or not?
How can the banks get away with – even with an IGA – asking every new account holder to reveal their place of origin and citizenship status?
This also means that minors with USC taint basically cannot have bank accounts until they are old enough to renounce or if they do, they will have to close them after renouncing and open new ones to get themselves out of the USG’s systems and establish financial identities as adults that are free of being spied on by a foreign govt.
What continues to elude me is why anyone in Canada thinks this is okay. Why is it okay to treat people as criminals before the fact? Or spy on them in the hopes that they make a mistake that can be construed as criminal in order to shake them down for penalty cash?
I continue to think “fuck it” and proceed with my plan to relinquish and to make sure that my child loathes the US to the point where renouncing will just be her default when she comes of age.
On a different note, I had a nice chat with the members of my new riding last evening as we founded our Liberal association. FATCA came up and everyone was suitably horrified but I am uncertain how to turn this into anything useful. We haven’t nominated a candidate yet but some of the older and more learned in the system folks there seem to believe that Harper is going to call an election this year. Maybe as early as spring. Bad news for Liberals and the NDP really if that happens b/c I don’t think the Cons have reached a tipping point that might swing enough voters against them to ensure they are replaced.
Apparently @MiaChupacabra has no appreciation for metaphors.
This is TREASON, a textbook case of it. I am working on getting the Native court system active. My first job is to get, in writing, a letter from the CRA telling me they will NEVER give my personal information to ANY other government. If I cannot get this proof, I will have to not file with the CRA until I know it is safe. The charter rights will need to be used when the Canadian Government comes to try to arrest me. This is a breach of my Canadian rights and Canadians need to stand up to it.
Anyone remember this old case?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_of_Sidney_Jaffe
Funny thing is, he apparently didn’t even apply to naturalise in Canada until after he’d already been charged in Florida, but Canada still took action on his behalf.
Canada taking action on even its own citizen’s behalf right now seems comic.
I wouldn’t recommend that anyone startup any conversations with that twit
@Eric
PC ruled then in 1985 & 1988 . PM Mulroney. HA!
@YogaGirl:
“… I had a nice chat with the members of my new riding last evening as we founded our Liberal association. FATCA came up and everyone was suitably horrified but I am uncertain how to turn this into anything useful.”
That’s a pretty depressingly clear statement of the problem – worldwide, global capitalism has so emaciated the power of citizens (a.k.a. ‘consumers’) that the very notion of such power has become vague and mysterious – what was it, what is it for, why do we want it? Nobody can remember…
and where are the lawyers? We supposedly had some lawyers versed in the constitution? Are they bought off too?
Yes, CAPITALISM IS EVIL. people just starting to realize this LOL?????
@CheersBigEars,
Its being worked on. We will hear details soon. Remember, our government has lawyers too, and they anticipated class action law suits. Patience….
@Deckard1138 says – well said
and the people from the government PM including the Minister of Finance and the leader of the bank association, all who were involved in all this, who signed and agreed the IGA and FATCA should go to jail. We, the citizens of Canada, who live here, regardless other citizenship or nationality, pay taxes here to this people in the government who misrepresent us and betray us, we are ready to a law sue and whatever is needed. They are not just traitors, they are accomplices, criminals and yes they don’t have the guts to stand up for all Canadian citizens (minority or majority) EQUALLY. Where are our rigths? oh! rigth they only consider us to help populate and pay taxes for their pocket, but where are our rigths? They can not handle their position, should be out!
Please count with my vote and support in anyway needed to support the campaign and take all this to international court. Too much injustice.
Who is to determine if someone is a “US citizen”? True, it is (under international law) for each State to determine who are its nationals, but if a Canadian- (or Ruritanian-)born person, or someone who claims to have renounced or never have obtained US nationality, states the contrary, who is to decide the case? I have reason to suspect that the result will be the rejection of anyone suspected of “banking while American”. Read this, from today’s N.Y. Times on “Banking While Russian”: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/12/opinion/gessen-the-checks-in-the-mail.html?_r=0
Here is an odd thought.
What if both the governments signed the IGA knowing it would be struck down under a section 15 charter argument. Canada can then say “We want to help but our constitution prohibits it.” The US can then ignore Canada without having to grant concessions to the other countries. Since there is an existing agreement regarding US residents with Canadian accounts the US would not actually be loosing much.
Or am I looking too hard for a silver lining?
There’s a bit of hysteria here as would be expected but it doesn’t change my point of view. I use, the very experienced son of the deceased worlds foremost US tax expert David Ingram if anyone here is looking for perfection in knowledge and filing forms. I never really wanted to comply with the forms but David twisted my arm.
His name is Peter. I don’t think its right to advertise someones business here (is it?) but because it’s so hard to find good accountants knowledgeable on the subject a person can do a search for David Ingram themselves. Peter is totally on our side. He has over 200 US citizen accounts.
R.I.P. David Glen Towers Ingram
Tuesday, February 22 2011 @ 02:37 PM PST
It is with a heavy heart and deep sadness that I must announce David’s passing…
Legendary Media and Tax Guru, David Ingram, passed away February 21, 2011, from cancer.
David had been fighting this battle for several months and spent his last few days in Palliative Care in North Vancouver. He died peacefully surrounded by his family.
Many thanks for the beautiful cards and flowers he received. We extend our greatest thanks to all of you who made his last few days memorable and for the hundreds of emails he received.
This, his personal web site, will continue to gather historic content including digitized versions of many of his radio and TV appearances, as well as stories and personal glimpses from his friends and customers.
Over the past 28+ years I’ve been blessed by both a business relationship and friendship with David, and have been his information technologies partner, and more recently, webmaster of this and other of his sites.
Please join me in telling the world about David and his incredible impact on the local, regional, national and international stages that he was so fond of speaking from.
Richard C. Pitt
P.S. Please post comments here and on other articles, links to other sites with items and articles on David, pictures, etc. here. If you have significant images, text or video you wish to add, please add an account for yourself and post them here – or let me know ( richard @ pacdat dot net ) how I can get them (or send them as attachments) and I’ll get them posted. See also David’s Facebook Pages
US citizens abroad who comply with US tax laws are Trojan horses for US imperialism. One should pay taxes in the jurisdiction in which the money is earned, where one has representation. These are fundamental principles of democracy in the civilized world and this is why I don’t recommend tax compliance specialists.
@Just a Canadian
U give them more credit then I do. The standard answer… its not my problem… can’t help u… u are the minority with that nasty US taint… No.. I am a born canadian and citizen that use to be proud of my country but now I have to hide like a frigging criminal cause I had the mis-fortune of having a family of GC holders cause my grandparents & parents were immigrants to canada from a war & saw nothing wrong in having other resident cards to come & go. We pay what we owe to where it was made. I never thought it was such a big deal. Never knew all that crap I would owe. Here is word to all… DON’T tie yourself to the US in anyway… u will pay with your blood & sweat. No other country we lived in has this kind of hunt & my own gov’t tossed me under the bus
I read in this “IGA” that you must ues IRS forms to prove to your Canadian bank you are not a US person. You know, We all cannot file with the CRA anymore as they are a Foreign government accepting US IRS forms. My god, it is time for war……
Russian article in English allows commenting. We should all go nuts and start posting there.
Americans denounce their citizenship over predatory tax system
I hope my link works correctly.
To Canada Revenue Agency,
Re: 2014 Taxes.
I was born in Edmonton, Alberta in 1970 and I was raised by two Canadian citizens (my mother was born in Vancouver; my father born in Japan and naturalized Canadian in 2007).
I have been under the understanding that with this new FATCA legislation, that my family could potentially have their Canadian tax submissions audited by the United States IRS.
This is a violation under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms signed in 1982 as a part of the Constitution Act under Article 6 (2 & 3 (b))
• Rights to move and gain livelihood
(2) Every citizen of Canada and every person who has the status of a permanent resident of Canada has the right
• (a) to move to and take up residence in any province; and
• (b) to pursue the gaining of a livelihood in any province.
• Marginal note:Limitation
(3) The rights specified in subsection (2) are subject to
• (a) any laws or practices of general application in force in a province other than those that discriminate among persons primarily on the basis of province of present or previous residence; and
Also present in violation are my family’s Article 15 rights.
Equality before and under law and equal protection and benefit of law
• 15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.
With the institution of FATCA, you have created a class of 2nd class citizens in Canada and as a full-fledged Canadian, I am disgusted with the premise that our Charter Rights and Freedoms can be trampled on. This proves that Canada is nothing more than a territory of the United States and is no more sovereign a country than Puerto Rico (considered a territory of the United States).
Please note that I am now submitting my tax forms under duress. If my taxes are subject to IRS scrutiny, I will find out who was involved and notify my lawyer that I will be suing the Canada Revenue Agency for breach of privacy and Charter Rights violations.
Sincerely,
My name
Canadian Taxpayer
Added between 2nd to last paragraph and last paragraph:
“I consider the Prime Minister of Canada, Revenue Minister and Finance Minister and any who voted in favour of a FATCA intergovernmental agreement as traitors to this country who have done nothing but undermine the sovereignty of Canada and am disgusted that my tax funds will be going to pay for their continued larceny and undermining of this nation. You will find that I am “paying” my taxes under protest.”