This weekend I spoke at length with a concerned Canadian citizen (ChearsBigEars) who believes that the time to launch the mother of all class actions lawsuits against the banks has already arrived. Why should we wait until the banks actually deprive Canadian citizens of their Charter rights? What if the banks are already in the process of planning to violate those rights? Would that not constitute a conspiracy to violate their rights?
Suppose TD Bank decided to ban some minority–let’s say anyone who is not white. Now they put out an advertisement that they wish to hire a bouncer who will stand at the door and prevent non-white people from entering the bank. Would those people who are about to have their rights violated have to wait until they were bounced or could they go ahead and launch a lawsuit based upon a conspiracy to violate Charter rights? My contact suggests that we can go ahead and sue the banks in a class action lawsuit and that we should do it right away, and it should be for one billion CDN dollars, to reflect the seriousness of this rights violation and the actual damages that are being inflicted by the United States as a result of the banks’ plan to implement FATCA. We can do this because TD Bank (et al.) has put out placement ads asking for FATCA compliance officers–not to mention the hundreds of millions of dollars that they have already spent putting a system in place to discriminate against comfortable and concerned clients. Here is plea that he sent me to share with the readers of the Isaac Brock Society:
FATCA CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT HELP NEEDED
We are currently investigating launching a Class Action Lawsuit against one of the major Canadian banks. The lawsuit will claim that the bank is conspiring to deprive Canadians of their rights under The Charter of Rights and Freedoms by advertising unlawfully for applicants for a job category designed to allow a hostile foreign power to harass and deprive certain large groups of their basic rights to live as other Canadians with equal rights to access to banking and other financial instruments.
Equality before and under law and equal protection and benefit of law
- 15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.
If there are any constitutional and or class action attorney groups out there please contact us ASAP (petros at isaacbrocksociety dot ca).
WHY JOIN A CLASS ACTION?
- Joining a class action is a way to have your disputes resolved in a low-risk, low-cost manner. In most circumstances, class actions are pursued on a contingency fee basis, meaning that class counsel is only paid if a settlement or court award is achieved. Class counsel fees would then be paid out of the settlement or award.
- Joining a class action requires little effort on your part. In most circumstances, you are not required to provide any documentation until the case has been resolved either through settlement or court award. At that stage, you would simply be required to file a claim form.
- Class actions provide a mechanism for pursing claims of relatively small monetary value. Unfortunately, the costs of litigating is often prohibitive to pursuing one’s legal rights. By bringing an action on behalf of hundreds, or thousands of individuals, class actions make it possible to pursue claims that would otherwise be uneconomical.
- Class actions provide a mechanism for leveling the playing field with defendants that often have significant resources. Again, by bringing an action on behalf of hundreds, or thousands of individuals, class actions provide for greater bargaining power on the part of the injured parties.
- The class proceeding legislation contains many safeguards to ensure that the rights of class members are protected. For example, any settlement reached in a class action must be approved by the court as being fair, reasonable and in the best interests of class members.
@nervous investor.
I agree we are on the same side when it comes to FATCA. I saw a very good article you sent and never realized it was on a “Glen Beck” site. One person kept bringing it up. That I am a Glen Beck follower…I finally said to that person…so you shoot the messenger instead of seeing the message. It shut that person up good. But I did like being on the blog and found many homelanders think we who live abroad are rich tax evaders and we have such a big tax break. One person even went as far as to say those abroad pay no taxes and them come home…how do they get backdated charges….Of course we know, that most of us never go back.. There were a few defenders but it is amazing how ill informed the homelanders are. I do believe they are jealous.
Top choice is Joe Arvay at Arvay Finlay. He is already familiar with this.
He had referred to a “plaintiffs’ group” as opposed to a class action. It is difficult to be a plaintiff until one is actually harmed. There is usually a “lead plaintiff”. It could be better if this person were the most egregious example: a Canadian citizen born in the US to Canadian parents by happenstance or medical referral (like the many Ontario border babies born in Buffalo during an Ontario nursing shortage) who has never lived or worked outside of Canada since.
NDP Revenue critic Murray Rankin was a partner at Arvay Finlay and is familiar with this also.
Also check out the Canadian Constitutional Foundation.
“The Canadian Constitution Foundation (CCF) is a registered charity, independent and non-partisan. We defend the constitutional rights and freedoms of Canadians in the courts of law and public opinion. ”
They encourage contact from individuals who’s case fits their mandate.
Worth at least getting this on their radar.
http://theccf.ca/need-our-help/
http://theccf.ca/
I’m onboard.
If there’s a God in heaven, show us mercy.
I’m in too in case I didn’t say so. This god awful train wreck needs to be addressed through legal means. I want to know how a U.S. law can be imposed on us all without any real over sight. No discussion in public, no Parliamentary process. Nothing just they pass it, some “deal” is signed in secret that we haven’t a clue what has been “agreed” to.
Good Evening,
Just found your site and I would be in on a class action lawsuit.
Cheers.
@ Native Canadian, Tuzenelda, Stoneman, Anonime, Border Baby & Krackerjack
We’d love to know how you found Brock. We could use some feedback as to what works in getting people here to read and hopefully to participate too. And, welcome to all of you!
Hi Em,
I found your site awhile back and lurked around it for a bit while I was looking for an accountant who could help me get compliant on my IRS obligations. I recently was talking with a colleague of mine about his renouciarion efforts and tax compliance issues and the site came up in conversation. I figured them I had better come and check the site out again. And I have found this information quite useful. I am hopeful that this can become more a meeting ground for ideas for me as what I need to do with my American citizenship.
Cheers.
Thanks Krackerjack.
I’m glad you found the information here useful. Good luck with your future plans and never hesitate to ask questions. We can’t guarantee perfect answers but we can always present options which will hopefully help you reach your own solution. There are just so many people ensnared by that dirty little secret called U.S. citizenship-based taxation. We have to bring it into the spotlight and I guess you’ve noticed that Brockers are doing their best in that regard.
I will gladly join-in any class action suit against Canada’s chartered banks, The Canadian Bankers Association, the Government of Canada or all the above.
Having said that, I would like add a bit more perspective regarding the TD bank in particular and Canadian banks in general. While TD has so far served-up the most egregious and easily lampooned FATCA marketing nonsense, it is certainly not alone. For the record, here is a snapshot of other major Canadian banks and their own particular FATCA capitulation pages, all written in the finest newspeak money can buy:
Bank of Montreal
Scotiabank
Royal Bank of Canada
CIBC Mellon
You will notice that one line in particular is nearly identical amongst all of these official statements:
TD: “While considerable uncertainty still exists regarding the obligations that Canadian Banks will face under FATCA, TD will comply with all applicable laws and regulations in the jurisdictions where TD operates.”
BMO: “While much uncertainty still exists regarding the obligations that Canadian banks will face under FATCA, BMO is committed to complying with all applicable laws and regulations in the jurisdictions where BMO operates.”
Scotiabank: “In countries where FATCA is integrated into local banking and tax regulations under an IGA, Scotiabank intends to meet all resulting legal obligations. In all other countries, we intend to comply with FATCA while maintaining strict adherence to existing banking and tax regulations.”
Royal Bank of Canada: “RBC takes our clients’ privacy seriously and complies with privacy rules in all jurisdictions. We are carefully reviewing FATCA regulations as well as intergovernmental agreements to assess their implications for privacy. RBC earns the right to be our clients’ first choice.”
The similarity of these statements leads to the inescapable conclusion that the Canadian Bankers Association itself has crafted boilerplate text and FAQs for use by all of their member banks. In other words, the entire Canadian banking industry has been most carefully and deliberately colluding to whitewash the true nature and impact of FATCA and, further, have already marginalized U.S. Persons by reassuring their customers that, in the words of Scotiabank, “We expect FATCA to have no impact on the vast majority of our clients.”
Now, the last time I looked-up the term “disingenuous”, it went something like this:
disingenuous
adjective
insincere, dishonest, untruthful, false, deceitful, duplicitous, lying, mendacious; hypocritical
But enough about the Harper government. It’s the banks we’re talking about here today, and that needs to be our main focus. It is they who threw in the towel long before putting up any meaningful fight against FATCA. It is they who have pressured the Finance Minister to cave-in to U.S. demands to make their precious, insulated lives easier and to ensure continued monstrous profits. It is they who have calculated that we U.S. Persons can be safely sacrificed for the greater good of the Canadian banking establishment. It is they who have most thoroughly betrayed every obligation to their customers and loyalty to their country and it is they who must be held most accountable for the debacle which is about to unfold.
I am already thoroughly disgusted to say that I was once an American and worse, that I will now have to spend the rest of my life proving that I’m not. Truth be told, I am now slowly, but surely becoming equally disgusted with the country I willingly adopted, embraced and committed myself to nearly 40 years ago. I hope it is not already too late to help influence the course of history, but I vow that I will not stand on the sidelines and let it unfold without me.
None of us ever imagined we would be here, nor would we ever have wanted to be, but now that we are, we have no choice but to fight to the bitter end. This is indeed our war and our time. What happens here in Canada will reverberate throughout the entire history of FATCA, whose sorry, sordid tale is now really just beginning.
It may not be too soon to start some investigation, but I would also put in a word of caution. Law suits are expensive, and the banks would insure it would be as expensive for us as possible. The body of IBS/Sandbox readers might be too small, unfortunately. Its when the great mass see things happening that there will be a sufficient base. As well, the first thing a law firm will ask is how they will get paid. Contingency-based litigation takes care of that, I suppose. As well, you cannot expect to sue and remain anonymous, which is a concern for some people. (Not me, not any longer.)
It might be good to consult Canadian Civil Liberties Association for advice on how to proceed. I think the advice from Steve Klaus (above) is very good too. (Thank you, Steve.)
@Deckard,
I feel yeah!
@Em – I am such a fool …. of course I can correct the typos … with a second post at theblaze.com …. so I have just done that as follows : “Correction to my previous post ….. I mistyped “Jaes Jattras’ StopFatca.com” ….. the reference is to http://www.repealfatca.com which is a web site organized by James Jatras. Mea culpa.”
Em, I found the site while surfing looking for answers on this crazy complicated situation. Its been a godsend and I thank everyone who is contributing to it.
@Northernshrike, My understanding is that issue of financing the lawsuit would rest with the lawyers who take this on, and that they would do so on a contingency basis. Of course, they would have to agree with the premise of this post that the time to launch a lawsuit is during the conspiracy stage of the rights violation. In ability to find a Canadian lawyer, preferably a Constitutional specialists who agrees with this premise will obviously make a class action lawsuit impossible–except that the banks are already starting to discriminate against US persons who sign up for new accounts and they have frozen trading accounts, even RRSPs, of those whom they know to be US persons. This has already been going on for two years, even to close participants on these pages, e.g., including one original participant who tore up American paperwork that the Royal Bank insisted that he fill out, and he walked out in a huff–and this was almost two years ago.
@Deckard, The focus on a single bank, TD, is necessary in order to not take on the entire banking industry at once. Focus on defendant, and this will make the FATCA experience uncomfortable for all the concerned banks. Afterwards, the other banks would probably settle out of court.
@All, thanks for your willingness to sign up. Please help us, if you will, by contacting potential lawyers who might take on this task. Do you know anyone who might do it? It would be helpful too to send a message/email to some of the people already listed so that they can see how real this problem has become.
@Gwen,
Regarding Joe Arvay, my understanding was that Blaze had Joe on stand bye, and that he was waiting for an IGA to be signed before any legal action.
Very inspiring words, Deckard1138!
It ought not be limited to Canada. An aggressive US lawyer would also have a case.
@ nervousinvestor — Good!
@ Stoneman — It looks like people can find us just surfing, as long as they are aware of the problem. Glad you came ashore at Brock.
@ Deckard — Terrific comment and I too feel the urgency to do something before FATCA begins its intended damage. Yes, I mean INTENDED damage because this was never really about catching the “whales” who have probably already figured out a swim around. They had all the mechanisms in place to do that before FATCA. This is all about catching and most of all controlling the “minnows” while worming their way into all the financial institutions in the world.
On Maple Sandbox, “What’s New” from Blaze: http://maplesandbox.ca/2013/whats-new/comment-page-44/#comment-11379
@ calgary411
Sadly, you are probably right. We have to start bleeding before anything litigation-wise can be done. I hope the cost of the stress of our waiting can be added to our damage claim, when the time finally comes. 🙁
Thanks calgary411. As frustrating as all of this might be, we must act when the time is right. Plenty of Brock era clichés come to mind about keeping one’s powder dry and not firing until we see the whites of their eyes…
I too am prepared to accept the advice of Joe Arvay and Peter Hogg. We need these guys on our side and we will have to trust them. In the meantime, we might want to consider how to build an organizational structure that will best support a class-action suit. We will need to put forth some kind of entity that will have standing in the court and we will certainly need to do some fundraising, conduct higher-level media relations etc. These are perhaps the most pressing challenges of all.
The banks are going ahead with discrimination even without our government signing an IGA, so how much damage to our rights can they inflict before we can fight back? Joe Arvay is talking about suing the government if and when they sign an IGA, but we are talking about suing the banks right now for what they are already doing…hiring FATCA compliance officers shows that FATCA is going into effect, unlawfully, as we speak.
Hopefully we will know sooner rather than later what our Canadian government has done in regard to their negotiations with the US — thus the decided action plan and Charter rights that may be waived by both our Canadian government and our Canadian financial institutions as they become arms of the IRS to deal with Canada’s US Person Canadian citizens and residents and deem us second-class Canadians, with not the same rights as all other Canadians. I think that as a group we must not scatter whatever energies we have in regard to a lawsuit. It’s difficult to wait, but I think we need to heed the advice we have gotten from top constitutional lawyers in Canada — and we now know from Blaze that has not changed. We’ll should also soon know through Blaze if Abby Deshman of CCLA changes her previous same advice.
I agree with Blaze that if others may want to, they should then go ahead individually to initiate whatever they feel is best in terms of getting another opinion or working with another lawyer. The opinion of those efforts could then be reported to us and we can then determine if the larger group of us should change from the present course of action.
Petros
Are the possible lawsuit fighting everything in FACTA or will they also have a fall back position that Canadian $ assets can not be reported. I think that most of us can live with this proposal.
“I don’t know what effect the Tax Treaty has with respect to the application of FATCA on Canadian soil. No doubt that is something being raised by Flaherty and his officials even now. Bear in mind, however, that the only real financial cost that can be imposed on you for failure to comply with FATCA, as far as I can tell, is a 30% withholding of certain transactions ARISING FROM US-SOURCE INVESTMENTS. Do you have US source investments? How important are they to you? Can you unload them and re-invest the funds in Canada instead, before FATCA comes into play? Think about it.”
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/02/13/3200/comment-page-1/#comments
Agreed. We’re not the lawyers, they are.