I posted this on another thread, but it’s worth repeating as it is an indication that our concerns are reaching those who are in charge of watching those who are in charge:
NDP Position on the US Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA)
I posted this on another thread, but it’s worth repeating as it is an indication that our concerns are reaching those who are in charge of watching those who are in charge:
NDP Position on the US Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA)
@ Joe Smith
Good for you. Keep us all posted.
It should be interesting. There are four of us within eyesight on my street!
@Joe Smith, Way to go!! Thank you!!
Keep up the good work!!
@canadianpat
I look forward to seeing your progress on our charter.
I move that the Isaac Brock Society make all references to extraterritorial taxation as “diaspora tax” because the use of the word diaspora in history-and presently in Eritrea-does much better in implying a struggle, regression or exile. Any seconds on that?
@bubblebustin
I would most definitely second your motion.
@bubblebustin ; I like that term ‘diaspora tax’!
@joesmith, thanks for talking with Craig Scott – the danforth was my old riding – and it gives me a good feeling to know that it seems to be in interested and committed hands….
@bubblebustin; checking my Webster’s Unabridged Dictionary, the word Diaspora appears to have its origins in describing the Jews who departed Babylonia after their captivity ended there but instead of returing to their historic home in Palestine they settled in countries outside of Palestine. In modern usage it also refers to the Jewish communities in the vaious countries of the world. An alternate use today is for any religious community living among people of a different predominant religion. Indeed it was used in the UN resolution to describe the Eritreans who have left their homeland to live in other countries.
My dictionary was printed in 1989 so it may not reflect current usage of this word. Do you have additional information that today its meaning has broadened?
Many thanks
@Roger
Funny you would ask me this when I’m writing something about this on the “A Global #FATCA in the future” thread. As I think I first heard the “diaspora tax” reference to our case by Victoria, I’ve asked her to help in the research!
@Roger to answer your question I did a little research and according to Wikipedia:
“The first mention of a diaspora created as a result of exile is found in the Septuagint in the phrase “esē diaspora en pasais basileias tēs gēs” translated to mean “thou shalt be a dispersion in all kingdoms of the earth”. Its use began to develop from this original sense when the Hebrew Bible was translated into Greek; in Ancient Greece the term διασπορά (diaspora) meant “scattering” and was used to refer to citizens of a dominant city-state who emigrated to a conquered land with the purpose of colonization.”
“After the Bible’s translation into Greek, the word Diaspora then was used to refer to the population of Jews exiled from Israel in 587 BCE by the Babylonians, and from Judea in 70 CE by the Roman Empire. It subsequently came to be used to refer to the historical movements of the dispersed ethnic population of Israel, to the cultural development of that population or to the population itself.”
“Expanding definition:
In an article published in 1991, William Safran set out six rules to distinguish diasporas from migrant communities. These included criteria that the group maintains a myth or collective memory of their homeland; they regard their ancestral homeland as their true home, to which they will eventually return; being committed to the restoration or maintenance of that homeland; and they relate “personally or vicariously” to the homeland to a point where it shapes their identity. While Safran’s definitions were influenced by the idea of the Jewish diaspora, he recognised the expanding use of the term.
Rogers Brubaker (2005) also notes that use of the term diaspora has been widening. He suggests that one element of this expansion in use “involves the application of the term diaspora to an ever-broadening set of cases: essentially to any and every nameable population category that is to some extent dispersed in space.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaspora#Expanding_definition
According to William Safran’s six rules defining a diaspora, it could be argued by some whether US citizens living outside the US should refer to themselves as diaspora, but with the ever-expansion of its definition, why not? By virtue of being taxed, we certainly are committed to the maintenance of the homeland. Or, if we aren’t diaspora are we better described as slaves?
i see elsewhere that there’s been some research on the American diaspora. Here’s something from 2009 from the Harvard Business Review warning of the imminent American brain drain. I have read elsewhere how the current actions of the US are as much to with curbing the loss of intellectual capital as it is to create revenue. http://hbr.org/web/2009/hbr-list/looming-american-diaspora
@bbblebustin, Thanks very much for doing this research. It does seem quite fitting and proper, based on current usage, to use this term in describing US citizens who live abroad based on how the use of Diaspora has evolved.
Comment: After reading the Dictionary, Wikipedia, and comments above the word does not resonate with me. I don’t feel dispersed or displaced. I feel I’m at home under attack by a foreign government. Of course many others might feel otherwise.
Question: If we want to communicate effectively with a large audience, would you want to risk using terminology that might force readers to the Dictionary or Wikipedia to fully understand our message?
Have to agree. Diaspora implies that one still has or wishes to maintain a contact with and/or return to that nation. I do not. Expatriate is not entirely satisfactory as it can imply a temporary living away from one’s true nationality. The best might be “former American” but that excludes people who might like to remain “American” but simply feels that citizen-based taxation is immoral or unfair. I think of myself as a Canadian who was born in the USA but freely and willingly have given up this citizenship and adopted another. What word or phrase expresses that?
Perhaps the phrase:
“Unfair taxation on American-born or naturalized Americans who have acquired another citizenship as guaranteed by the United Nations’ Universal Declaration of Human Rights to which the USA is a signatory,”
(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.
“Unfair taxation on American-born or naturalized Americans who have CHANGED THEIR citizenship as guaranteed by the United Nations’ Universal Declaration of Human Rights to which the USA is a signatory,”
I definitely don’t consider myself to be part of a “dispora”.
– I don’t watch the news from there or keep up with things happening in America;
– I don’t observe US customs or holidays;
– I don’t meet up with other Americans;
– I DEFINITELY *DO NOT* miss living in the US in any way shape or form.
The only thing that keeps me from detesting mainland Americans is the fact that almost all of them are oblivious as to what the politicians there are doing. So even though they ELECT their politicians, it’s hard to find them at fault, knowing the kind of wool the politicians pull over their heads.
The last thing I actually want to be in American, but it’s not quick and easy to get a different nationality.
In case you are not familiar with Ted Rall look at this and click on “previous” for earlier cartoons…
http://www.rall.com/rallblog/2012/03/30/the-lesser-of-two-evils
@Joe Smith
I agree with you completely. We may share similar circumstances. I was born in the US, came to Canada as an infant. I am a Canadian citizen. I’ve lived and worked in Canada my entire life. I am not a US citizen or US Person abroad. I’m not a US ex-pat in Canada. I am a Canadian at home.
So some will say under American law I am a “US Person”. I say fine. Under Sharia Law I should beat my daughters if they drift out of line. For me US Law might as well be Sharia Law. I may not respect foreign laws themselves but I do respect sovereign nations to implement laws that work for them.
In a nutshell I want to work with other Canadians to defend our right to sovereignty and privacy, and influence Canadian laws that work for Canada. I see the US aggression on taxing US Persons in Canada as just one example of foreign aggression that we need to stop. I have the feeling that there will be more examples of foreign aggression to come, especially if many Canadians do the “full ostrich”.
I am waiting for Canadian citizens to be denied entry to the USA or to have threatening letters from the IRS that were not stimulated by disclosing oneself to them. I have decided that I will not be the first one to be so designated by my decision to not enter the US again. I also will not be one who tells the IRS who I am by any disclosure or visit to any consulate.
Has anyone has these things happen to them yet?
@All
In the last few weeks after finding this site, I have been talking to family members and friends in the U.S. and they are oblivious that this is going on. We are not talking uneducated people with their head in the sand (well maybe they are these days) One is actually a lawyer who is running for Judge in a southern state. All have said that none of this has been reported in the news in the U.S. (big surprise). They were shocked and thought I was blowing this all out of proportion until I sent them a link to this site – they were totally oblivious. If nothing else – my family members who thought I was nuts and was being ridiculous thinking this had to do with all of us not wanting to be good Americans and pay our taxes – now have an understanding of the facts versus what the U.S. wants them to hear.
If the land of the free and home of the brave are willing to do this to over 6 million people around the world because they are desperate, what do you think that it will do to the masses if things get worse. No one there who is still drinking the koolaid believes their country would do this and of course there are the ones waving the Flag with their head in the sand that believe that Obama is saving them by doing this without realizing Obama isn’t doing this for them – he is doing it as a last ditch effort to hold on to his Presidency to collect money. I want to know if when checks and balances are all said and done if this ended up costing more than what they actually collected and who will report on that.
I think it is great that those on here who have MPs that are NDP are using that avenue to help build awareness with the opposition. I am still waiting to see if I get the same Flaherty letter that everyone else did or hear at all. If nothing else, writing it sure made me feel better.
I think developing a stand that Joe Smith is heading up is amazing. I think though most of us aren’t so proud of our U.S. ties these days, I think the one thing that Americans are (or were) known is that we take a stand and don’t roll over and play dead. Well – that is what people use to think and maybe it is those of us that left that still believe in that which is what will get us all through this standing together for a fight.
This is just a thought for anyone who is “unmasked”. I wonder if a reporter at one of the National newspapers (Globe or National) would pick up a story hearing from those affected versus reporting on generalizations from the bank/government point of view of how they are affected. I think that if I was a “new Canadian” sitting here – I would want to know what the government plans to do to help us because if they did roll over – they would wonder what will happen if the country they are from tries something like this – would they be protected.
Has anyone considered the outrage that would happen if this affected the massive Chinese, Indian, or Middle Eastern community – there would chants of racism and profiling and who knows what else. I as well don’t “hang” out with other Americans so even I had NO idea of the vast number of us here. It is actually this happening that has lead me to find out I actually know others in this boat because no one usually advertises they are American if they have become Canadian – me being one of them. My only problem is I have one of those “accents” from below the Mason Dixon line that one cannot lose so stick out like a sore thumb. It is a bit like a scarlet letter as I find other Canadians will ask — how are you affected about all of this – when Americans south of the Canadian border are oblivious.
@Proud Canadian, I am also from the Deep South with just the same “accent” yes we stick out like a sore thumb..Still strong after 35 years in Canada! The banks will not have to ask if we are American, it will be very obvious.
You could have been born in Canada, lived in USA and then returned. Show no weakness!
@all
I agree with the comments above. Diaspora does not work for many of us on this site. I have been a Canadian, who happened to be born in the US, for more than 40 years. Diaspora would seem to indicate that I am still American. I no longer think of myself that way. Like Joe Smith, if that means I will never be able to travel again to the country of my birth, so be it.
@saddened123 and Proud canadian, my family also was from the south, and while I”ve lost my accent, having come here as a small child, my mother still gets asked about hers. I am sticking firmly, and will try to get her also to, that we are Canadian only. This whole media/IRS propaganda, ‘born in the US, have to be a US citizen’ makes me furious. I am not a US person and will be doing everything I can to prove that. Therefore diaspora definitely does not resonate with me.
@All: I agree with comments above. Nothing in the researched meaning of the word diaspora describes me. The fact that the word needed to be researched to determine what it means tells me it would not be understood by most people we want to reach with our message. I personally had never seen or heard the word diaspora until it was used relating to Eritreans.
I remember how in 2004 I was freaked out at Pearson airport the first time that a immigration officer said I needed to travel on a US passport. This was with a four year old (luckily adopted — apparently citizenship can only be passed on through DNA) and Canadian wife in tow on the way to an academic conference in Atlanta. I also recall the Air Canada person telling me to be careful as all communication in the immigration area and beyond were monitored. Since then I have found crossing the border to give talks becoming more and more annoying, sometimes breezing through, other times being chastised for not having a valid US passport. I have not attempted to cross since the time that a Passport was required for all entries.
As time went by I made inquiries about renouncing, but the turning points were my talking to my Credit Union and finding that “My citizenship was Canadian”, and Donald Cayo reporting that the CRA would not collect any taxes or fines from Canadian citizens. http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2011/09/08/reposting-canadian-government-wont-hound-residents-for-the-irs/
The solution was simple and appears to work (at least for me).
1. Move funds into Credit Union. Do not trust the Chartered Banks.
2. Resolve to not cross the US border.
3. Make no effort to renounce or relinguish since that makes you a target!
I have had almost ten years to work this through and can appreciate how disorienting this can all be. But the bottom line is that they cannot touch you if you are a Canadian (or other) citizen and you stay out of the country. Until I hear otherwise, that is the bottom line for me.
It has now been 30 years since I have had any official contact with US authorities — i.e. passport renewal and three years since I crossed the border. I do not exist and I will continue not to exist.
Visit the Grand Canyon? Rather go to Detifoss!
http://www.hellotravel.com/iceland/dettifoss-waterfalls-j%C3%B6kuls%C3%A1rglj%C3%BAfur-national-park