I posted this on another thread, but it’s worth repeating as it is an indication that our concerns are reaching those who are in charge of watching those who are in charge:
NDP Position on the US Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA)
I posted this on another thread, but it’s worth repeating as it is an indication that our concerns are reaching those who are in charge of watching those who are in charge:
NDP Position on the US Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA)
@ bubblebustin
I would feel better about ‘above’ if Denise Savoie had written somthing about this in 2012. I think the last update was December, 2011. Not much recently.
@bubblebustin
Who’s watching those in charge of those who are in charge of watching those in charge of…………. 🙂
The Official Oppositons position
“That negotiations include an exemption for Canadian citizens from filing US tax returns in circumstances where those citizens have no US income or assets, or have no real connection with the United States;” strikes at the very heart of the US citizenship-based tax system which subjects every person with US citizenship to US income tax, irregardless of where they live anywhere in the world. To exclude those living in Canada from this law would reqire Congressional action. Given the current Congressional jijad against US citizens with the audacity to live anywhere outside of the US, any expectation to negotiate an exception is, I fear, dreaming in technicolor.
The only place where US citizens may live and not be subject to US income tax on their local income is in Puerto Rico. US citizens and green card permanent residents who reside in Puerto Rico are not subject to US income tax on Puerto Rico source income as a result of 1917 legislation exempting the territory of Puerto Rico from Federal taxation. Residents of Puerto Rico, even though they are US citizens, are not permitted to vote for president of the US. No representation; no taxation.
@ALL
Might be a bit off topic on this post, but this is how I feel the US and the IRS are treating Americans abroad. 😡
Notice to two other thugs in the background waiting for their turn!!!
https://secure.flickr.com/photos/phospho/5206984059/
@All
The only thing the they have to take into account is that one day in the future we will have our turn too! 😈
This is a good article and addresses the facts well. Flaherty has spoken out as well but the question is will Harper when his feet are to the fire and will he cave in the interest something else that the U.S. has to offer. I am a PC myself, but will admit I think that after seeing what has happened in the U.S. – I do not trust any politician of any country to truly do what is in the best interest of the people ( in this case 1 million) versus themselves and the overall government. I am not trying to be a pessimist as I do want to believe (just like the CDN Olympic commercials say) but seeing what has gone on in the world in the last 10 years around the world does not give one a warm and fuzzy of those in charge of government in countries around the world. The interesting part it is the NDP and have seen a couple Liberals that are speaking out on FATCA and this idiocy. It would be hilarious to me who took a few years to understand the political system here where the opposition could call a Premier or Prime Minister on something and call an election. It was so foreign to me in the beginning – but now get how though sometimes not always used correctly – it does keep the person at the top in check. Whether the NDP or Liberals really have this as a platform item….I think that if Harper caves – this will be something they can and probably would use. I may be a PC but have become more left of right living here – it would change my vote and 1M in the U.S. may not be a lot – but in Canada – that is a chunk of the population that seems to be dispersed over the provinces and territories. You add on families and friends of those people who are angered by this – it could change an election and don’t think the opposition parties know this.
I do believe in Canada and I am proud to be one and live here, but all politicians are people who have agendas and the question is whether another agenda will become more important than protecting us. Over the last weeks, my husband has been pointing me to government sites which show our rights including the one where the government said the only way you can be denied a bank account is if you have committed a crime against a bank and only need a picture ID – which is a driver’s license not a passport with birthplace. The question is will all of this be revised as well or will we be turned away from banks, reported to the U.S., CRA /government decides to comply and collect for U.S. or other constitutional rights ignored or will the constitution need to be revised to say everyone but those born in the U.S. My husband is Canadian by birth and is angrier about this than I am I think and is ready to pull out the information on the government websites out and grab a constitutional lawyer the day that we are denied a bank account …..has turned him into a rebel:-)
The optimist in me wants to believe that Canada will not cave to the bully and since it is a country truly founded on the freedoms of individuals that it stands up and is recognized as the country that does not roll over for the U.S. Americans in the U.S. believe that Canada is this little bump to the north that has English and French people and they might be able to name 2 cities. I think if Canada sticks to their guns that this will not be the case – it will end up being the place that dissatisfied Americans will want to immigrate – as if you look at Facebook these days – there are a load of them. No longer bragging about the Home of the Free and the Brave – it is more about the injustices taking place and distrust of their politicians. Maybe they will become the new refugees – good thing is they have money to pay taxes:-)
Craig Scott is my MP in Toronto-Danforth and is an international human rights lawyer. I will depend on him to defend our interests.The efforts to influence US lawmakers is worth doing but probably will have no effect, sadly. I am confident that the interests of close to 1,000,000 Canadian citizens will not be allowed to be trampled on by any political party in Canada.
I’m thankful that the NDP have at least taken an official position on this issue. And they are smart for having done so, as 600,000 to one million votes are a very high number to win over. Once FATCA comes into effect and we start seeing the real results of the law, no party will be able to ignore the issue.
@Joe Smith
I sure am hoping this is true as well and so far I have been impressed by the push back by many of our politicians. I agree with your point that it will have no effect on the U.S. and the lawmakers there – it will be that Canada protects us and supports us on their soil. This all has changed the views of some Canadians as well who sometimes think it would be great to live in the U.S. My husband was one. When we married – he would say how nice it would be to live there and I wouldn’t even entertain it. I think he now isn’t that concerned about shovelling snow once in awhile.
@bubblebustin
Over the last six or seven weeks the IBS has been essentially my “portal” into a galaxy of information regarding my painful birthmark (US citizenship). Even though I am analytical by nature, I have found it difficult to distill all of the information that I have come across thus far into a set of principles that I need to guide my strategy and my detailed decision making to defend myself. I think the NDP document is an excellent start at helping me refine my position. So thanks to the NDP and thanks to you for posting this.
I think that it’s critical that we keep the information sharing and dialogue on the IBS flowing. Perhaps selfishly, I’m looking for more. I’m looking for something more concrete, like a “Charter” that would help organize, rally and focus the Canadians like me that find themselves under attack. If that “Charter” is out there somewhere, someone please point me there.
If not, I wonder if the NDP document could be leveraged as the basis for stating our common purpose and set of principles that would guide us as a group of Canadians.
I’m currently not an NDP supporter and I am not suggesting that everyone here rally around the NDP. I am saying that while we maintain the online information sharing and debates, we need to start to organize more formally around a common purpose and set of principles. Do you think we need a “Canadian Charter”? Might this NDP document serve as a foundation?
I would like to know what people think.
Perhaps someone in the UK should contact George Galloway MP, who won last night’s by-election in Bradford, England would probably be no fan of Sen Carl Levin and how Levin treated him during Oil-for-Food Senate hearings in 2005 (maybe this is the real life Rolo advertisement!) see Youtube clip:
A beginning…
1. That any Canadian (or other, fill in nation) citizen has the right to relinquish their US citizenship without burden or penalty.
2. That any Canadian citizen residing in Canada is not required to file income taxes to a foreign power for income not earned in that foreign state.
3. That Canadian privacy laws and human rights codes take precedence over any foreign nation’s attempts to secure personal information from Canadian residents.
Also watch this George Galloway clip (before last one) George gives it to the US Senate!
@Joe,
How about one like this: “No foreign nation shall have the right to levy or to collect taxes from residents of this country on income earned in this country, and attempts to do so shall be considered and treated as a violation of National Sovereignty.
@All, there has been discussion on several of the threads to try to find a coherent message, a way to disseminate that message and really, I think, a rallying cry that will get people to sit up and take notice (and take a stand). Perhaps someone who can author can create a new thread specifically for this theme, I think the talk of a charter on this thread fits right in. Coming up with something like that is not one of my strengths, but I absolutely support the idea of it, and would contribute what I can…
@canadianpat
A charter for a distinct class of citizenry? I like the idea of organizing around “a common purpose and set of principles”, but I don’t know anything about charters and such. Naturally, you will need a consensus on what those principles shall be. Is the NDP’s list of objectives a good start? I think it may be worthy of starting a new post of your own on the subject, don’t you?
The NDP party position has been on Savoie’s website since last Fall at least, when I first came across it. It hasn’t been updated since then, I suspect because there isn’t really much to update until the FATCA regulations are finalized and the government comes out of the closet and says what it is or isn’t going to do about it. At that point, the fun begins …
As others have pointed out, both the NDP and the Conservatives have strong populist and nationalist streaks in their caucuses and history, the Liberals perhaps less so. I think it would be difficult for the government to throw US-born Canadians under a bus, politically it would be a nightmare for them once other Canadians (including immigrants or descendants of immigrants from other countries) get educated about the implications and precedents that would set. And, in fairness, Flaherty and other Tory MPs have been very clear about not collecting US revenue claims of any sort against Canadian citizens nor FBAR non-filing penalties against anyone living in Canada, citizen or not, thanks to the tax treaty which is very clear on these points.
What happens with FATCA and the banks remains to be seen. But that’s going to be a hot-button issue, if Canadians of all stripes realize their banks are handing over financial information on individual citizens to any foreign government, never mind the US one, and all account holders are going to get stuck with the significant administrative costs of their Canadian banks’ becoming tax collectors for a foreign government that a lot of us don’t like a whole lot. There are already lots of people upset about the cross-border info sharing for “security” reasons, given the way some of that was abused in some high-profile cases we needn’t get into here.
@schubert
Let me rephrase: The official oppositions official stand…until further notice 🙂
@Joe Smith
I believe Schubert mentioned that Craig Scott was at the Ottawa meeting. If you life in Toronto Danforth, then you might contact him while this is still fresh in his head.
FYI,
Hi Craig,
Re: Your attendance at Ottawa FACTA Meeting
When you catch your breath I’d like to fill you in on the US expatriate situation. I am one of those who will never cross the border again. I’ve been a Canadian citizen for xx years, landed immigrant xx years prior to that, have no US assets, earnings, or contact with the US and would love to renounce. But apparently, the USA does not subscribe to section 15 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights such that any renunciation could cost me much of the earnings I have made in Canada over the past 37 years!
There are close to 1,000,000 Canadians in a similar situation. Could be a political winner!
Pingback: The agony of U.S. citizenship for U.S. citizens living outside the U.S. « Renounce U.S. Citizenship – Be Free
@Joe, Go for it! I sure makes sense to me. US Ambassador to the UN Susan Rice recently led the charge that resulted in the Security Council on December 5, 2011 approving Resolution 2023 (2011) condemning Eritrea for violating the human rights of its citizens by subjecting its Diaspora residents abroad to Eritrea income tax plus the means used to collect this tax. There were 13 votes in favor, none in opposition and 2 abstentions (Russia and China.) So it was approved.
Do you suppose that a similar resolution introduced by Canada with respect to US tax policy and its citizens residing abroad would recerive similar support?
Nina Olsen, the US Tax Advocate, in her most recent annual Report to Congress stated “It is almost impossible for US citizens living abroad to comply with US tax requirements.” So here is a statement from a high US Government official that might well be quoted in formulaing such a draft resoludion foir the UN Secirity Council’s consideration.
Reply from Craig Scott:
Dear xxxxxx.
This is an issue I got to work on my first evening in Ottawa, and will work with our Revenue Canada critic Hoang Mai to try to push back. He and Finance Critic Peter Julian have already met with US Ambassador.
If you have specific story of being tagged with tax fines for non-filing, can you email hoang.mai.a1@parl.gc.ca as they are keeping a database of examples.
When I am up and running with staff, I want to be in touch with dual citizens in the riding.
Craig
@all
I am willing to take a shot at getting a “Charter” going. If it turns out to be a bust then I am OK with that – I am just trying to find a way to get more action-oriented. Please stay tuned.
@Joe Smith
Bravo!! You should be be proactive in staying in touch with him.