929 thoughts on “Consulate Report Directory (Brockers describe their Consulate Meetings) Part 1 of 2”

1. Thanks, too, Saddened123. Your turn is coming.

2. @calgary, thinking of you, and so happy for you and your family. Thank you for all the work you and the founders have done on IBS to help others here. Always cheered me to see your presence. Glad at least part of your journey is concluded.

3. @Calgary,

   I have been out all day and only now have read your great news. I am so happy for both you and your husband (and more than a bit jealous, too, but because of the kindness of people like you, I know my day will also come!).

   I hope you will both celebrate tonight. What a good idea writing Abby Deshman regarding your son’s situation and the situation of others.

    

4. *@Calgary, congratulations, I’m so happy for you both!!!  😀 :D. And I also want to say how much I’ve appreciated all your unwavering support for what has also been such a stressful time for me.  Light at the end of the tunnel… and we need to keep fighting for your son.

5. *Calgary, just woke up and read the great news.  Congratulations!  🙂

6. *Hoorah, another one on the freedom list.  Congratulations.  Now the fight’s on for your son.

   I’ve got my appointment at the Bern embassy booked for 4th March. Hoping mine goes as smoothly as yours did and that it won’t be too long before I join the ranks of ex-US.

7. @calgary411 That’s excellent news, I’m very happy for you and your husband!

   Congratulations!

8. *@Calgary411 congratulations you can add Renunciation Day as  new holiday of your personal calendar, equal in significance to a birthday etc.

9. @badger, tiger, monalisa, swisspinoy, Medea, notamused and Patricia,

   Thanks for checking here for the latest.  Glad mine was part of the latest news.

   I want to tell you how much I appreciate your congratulations.  I took the support of each and every one of you into that Calgary US Consulate appointment.  This is a milestone.

   I’m looking forward to my husband and me completing the partial 2012 US tax return and 8854 requirements for us to be what the US IRS considers to be legally free.  I object to it all, but will do it to further sever our chains. 

   My story and my many mistakes may help others realize relinquishment may be the better choice for their freedom.  Each of our stories at Isaac Brock provides encouragement and support for others.

10. @Calgary

    Congratulations, Calgary. You have given so much help and encouragement to all of us. Finally it’s your turn to celebrate. Now you can more openly advocate for your son. We are all cheering for you!

11. Thanks, baird68.

    It’s been great to have been fighting this monster along with you all this time. So glad yours was a successful relinquishment instead of the renunciation and all that entails that mine was — all because of my ignorance that I hope I’ve highlighted and some others will heed.

12. *Calgary 411.  Attagirl.    Sincere congrats. The Duke.

13. Thanks, The Duke. I’ve really appreciated your “Bob’s Your Uncle” common sense and putting me back on track when I’ve gone astray.

14. @Pacifica, Swisspiony, Petros, et. al.

    [Pardon typos–typed this quickly]

    –Second Visit to Jerusalem Consulate regarding backdated CLN relinquishment request–

    I went back to the Jerusalem Consulate and met with Consul Kirk Smith for a special appointment after at 1:30pm–after normal ACS morning hours.  The guards couldn’t understand why I was there. I showed the e-mail confirming the appointment.  They let me in after verifying my name.

    First he said we need to talk about relinquishment and how it could happen.  He only mentioned 3 ways…Serving in a foreign army, getting a diplomatic post in a foreign gov’t, and I think he mentioned treason.  I said to him it is also possible to lose my naturalizing in a foreign country with relinquishment with intent.  I think he sort of agreed after I mentioned it, but he seemed kind of defensive.  He said I did a affirmative act by renewing a US passport in 2006 (actually, I was replacing a damaged passport..not renewing…four years after I naturalized in 2002.  I said I was under the impression that I had to use it or I’d have trouble with CBP and I had to apply and receive  a CLN…as others in Canada have done. He didn’t seem moved by my argument. 

    I mentioned that I naturalized with intent for idealistic reasons..didn’t feel american..wasn’t interested…here for keeps, etc.

    I even told him that Halifax had a similar case and they said it wasn’t a problem and he said “Nova Scotia?”.

    Then I said I didn’t vote–he said tons of people don’t vote.  I said I never registered my kids as US citizens…he left it in the air saying basically –anything before a CLN…they are citizens emphasizing “you don’t get to decide who’s a citizen–we do!” I also explained I needed a CLN to show the bank I wasn’t a US citizen—he was curious on that point and held it to the end.  It seemed at that point I lost the battle…he seemed to have already made up his mind that I didn’t relinquish in 2002.  

    I showed him my Israeli citizenship documents and my immigration card showing I naturalized in 2002.

    Next he said I need to refill out form DS-4079 again (he had the copy I had filled out originally).  He left and I summoned him back through his clerk when I finished filling it out at the window.  Then I signed both copies in front of him) 

    Then he read the consequences of losing nationality.  I basically said I understood all that and read it already.  He emphasized how I would potentially have a hard time visiting family in the states since people with family have a negative point against them applying for visas since they think you want to stay in the states.  I said I know.  He even read the selective service part of the consequences that I could theoretically get called up .  I said I’m a bit old for Select service. (in my late 30’s).  He said he was too, but they could change the rules  (does he know something I don’t know?)

    He also made of this theoretical case where I could get caught in Canada for a visa violation and they would deport me to the US since it says US place of birth, and then something terrible could happen to me in the US if that happened since I’m not a US citizen…(WTH?)

    He told me not to sign the statement of consequences–that I should think about it until a third visit.  He said he was consulting with washington/DOS HQ, but he didn’t think i qualified for relinquishment and had to renounce. 

    Afterwards, he asked me what the deal was with the banks. He thought Israeli banks were refusing US citizens…I asked if he knew what FATCA is–he said he did..I said they are freezing US american’s bank accounts here unless they produce proof to the bank that they are filling out tax forms.
    He also kept mentioning the reed amendment (he said the attorney general could bar me since I could have expatriated for tax purposes…I said when I came, I didn’t have enough money to expatriate for tax purposes…it was a non-issue for me.)

     It was clear, he was worried that Israeli banks were refusing service. to US citizens

    Anyway, he told me he would get in touch with HQ and get back in touch with me. I again emphasized I did not want to keep my US citizenship, the only reason I renewed my passport was on short notice to go to a wedding in the USA–not to have problems with CBP.  He gave me back my US passport and told me he’d be in touch for a 3rd visit.  Things aren’t looking optimistic for a backdated CLN, but he seemed a little softer at the end than at the beginning–maybe he was defensive because I sent that tough e-mail earlier as certain brockers recommended? At the end he basically said…”we’d hate to lose you, but your allowed to do it…it’s your right of course  

15. BenPloni,

    It is good to get your (the second) report re the Jerusalem US Consulate. I’m glad you didn’t back down and hope that their ‘getting in touch with HQ’ for direction will result in your successful relinquishment. Third appointment — ridiculous, but I’m glad we know about it from your report.

    We haven’t seen the ‘throwing reasons for not relinquishing or renouncing’ since the early days of this blog and the previous ExpatForum. Perhaps it is a matter of some of the world consulates who have not yet had experience (or many) of people coming in to expatriate being on their own learning curve and will catch up with what those like many Canadian consulates are doing — streamlining / no obstruction.

    They may hate to lose you and me and so many others — it would be great if the US was able to put two and two together for so many things. “Can’t understand why the rest of the world hates us??”

    Thanks for the update. We’ll look forward to the next instalment of the story of your Jerusalum experience. Good luck.

16. @Calgary…you seem more optimistic than I do.  He seemed more inclined than not–like he made up his mind–that I didn’t relinquish.  Perhaps he may clarify with Washington, but from what I could tell, he seemed pretty resolute on his opinion on the matter–even if he softened a bit towards the end of the interview.

17. BenPloni,

    I don’t know if its optimism. I does seem a good possibility given similar successful relinquishments — that those “HQ” are aware of and did have a hand in decision for those outcomes. At any rate, if relinquish is determined not possible, there is always renunciation to fall back on. I’m rooting for relinquishment success. Keep in touch and good luck.

18. BenPloni,

    He also made of this theoretical case where I could get caught in Canada for a visa violation and they would deport me to the US since it says US place of birth, and then something terrible could happen to me in the US if that happened since I’m not a US citizen…(WTH?)

    A US official openly suggesting that the US would operate as the terrorist government that we have all come to understand that it is — too bad you don’t have that one on video.

19. @Swiss, Pacifica, Petros et. al.

    Assuming the consul officer won’t recognize or give me a back dated CLN because I renewed my passport, it was suggested that there are ways I could appeal or find a way to argue his decision? I don’t remember who mentioned it, but someone suggested this had occured before and they were able to get it resolved. Do any of you know what needs to be done if it comes down to it?

    Thanks

20. From an earlier comment, BenPloni (this may be what you’re referring to):

    Having a US passport is actual proof that the person is a US citizen. It could not have been obtained otherwise. There is at least one instance here where a person was “coerced” into getting a US passport when crossing the border (born in the US and flying from Europe with another country passport, not Canadian). That person presented his case well, able to explain he was forced into getting the US passport and subsequently relinquished.

    I found the comment:

    baird68
    Submitted on 2012/12/17 at 10:53 pm

    Hello, Everyone

    I just got a call from my brother in Halifax who just received his CLN. He gave me permission to share his experiences with you. A few years ago, he was threatened by a U.S. Border officer at Shannon Airport in Ireland to agree to get a U.S. passport or be detained from boarding his flight to New York City connecting to Halifax. His explanation that he had been a child when he came to Canada and that he was a Canadian citizen with no ties to the United States did not faze the officer. Reluctantly, he applied for and obtained a U.S. passport upon returning to Canada. Consequently, when he handed his completed forms to relinquish his citizenship on October 18, 2012 at the U.S. consulate in Halifax, he also handed over that passport with the explanation of the Shannon incident. The consul apologized to for the “inappropriate and unacceptable behaviour” of the U.S. border officer in Shannon. He said that the possession of a U.S. passport was evidence of his participation in being American. Therefore it would be necessary to pay $450 even though, in my brother’s case, it clearly showed he relinquished his U.S. citizenship when he became a Canadian citizen in December 1968. That being said, the papers were accepted at the first meeting and he was called by the consulate to pick up his CLN less than two months later! The CLN states he relinquished his U.S. citizenship on the date he became a Canadian citizen.
    Unlike me, my brother in Halifax neither obtained a SSN nor filed taxes for the past five years. His process to freedom was smooth because I shared with him what I learned from the Issac Brock site and others like it that support U.S born persons. We have another brother who unfortunately fell into the OVDI trap earlier this year and paid dearly for it.

    I can’t thank you all enough for the support you are providing every day.

21. Dear Sir/Madam:

    We want to emphasize that renunciation of U.S. citizenship is a very serious and irrevocable exercise and should therefore only be undertaken after serious consideration of its consequences. Please read more about the procedure and consequences on
    http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html.

    If you are still interested in renouncing your U.S. citizenship after reading this information, you must first visit the embassy for a consultation. Thereafter, if you remain interested, you will be scheduled for an appointment where you formally renounce your U.S. citizenship.

    If you want to proceed, please reply to this email and we will set up an appointment for your initial consultation.

    Sincerely,

    American Citizen Services
    Embassy of the United States of America
    Dag Hammarskjölds Väg 31
    SE-115 89 Stockholm

22. Casey Research: “American Expatriation Guide: How to Divorce the U.S. Government by a Former U.S. Citizen.”

    http://api.ning.com/files/RO9ZrH7HPHpdSApxNGnan8hbL9gJMV5KRfJ2nmmwtwCUQhQEST-1TE8TttgohTSFs*bdxcpBM-uiDre2qMPwjYTgXO4kQA9J/AmericanExpatriationGuide.pdf

23. @ FromTheWilderness
    I don’t know who wrote that guide but from what I’ve read so far, it definitely looks like a keeper. I particularly like the FREEDOM section. Thanks for finding it!

24. Another comprehensive resource — thanks, FromTheWilderness.

25. are there any stories about people who renounced more than a year ago?

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