110 thoughts on “Almost no U.S. citizenship renunciation appointments left during 2016 in Dublin; other U.S. embassies also putting up various roadblocks”

1. Re Consulates narrowing as much as possible those trying to renounce/relinquish.

   Thought I’d post this 2014 conversation Stephen had with two US consular officials – who acknowledged that they were not intending to do anything to help with the backlog, and that renunciations were at the bottom of their to-do lists.

   ‘My November 4, 2014 Conversation with Toronto Consul-General of US: New renunciation appointments (all “LOW-PRIORITY”) extended to September 2015’
   http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/11/04/my-november-4-2014-conversation-with-toronto-consul-general-of-us-new-renunciation-appointments-extended-to-september-2015/comment-page-1/

   “…U.S. Consul General James Dickmeyer gave a short speech and I had conversations with the C-G and two Consular officials on the wait time to obtain a renunciation meeting in Toronto….”……………………

   “……….Consular Official R (second conversation) — Told R that his boss claims that R has the power to shorten renunciation wait times. R responded by saying that the renunciations are a low priority that do not compare with high priority activities such as passport renewals, and that there will be no change in priority. R advised that Toronto people should go to Calgary or Montreal to renounce. I asked R how would a low income person find the funds to do this……”

2. I renounced December 1 in Calgary. I have no intention of travelling to the US (haven’t done so since September 1999), but I did ask about the passport issue. My daughter had considered having surgery in Mexico. She needed me to travel with her and we would have to pass through the US. I have never had a US passport. I asked about traveling using my Canadian passport. They indicated that I could as long as I also had with the receipt issued by the Consulate.

3. If you are queuing forever to renounce or relinquish, you should at least be absolved of the tax madness… (wishful thinking on my part). Are the folks at the OECD as well as the UN paying attention to this? Is it even on their radar? Such a sorry state of affairs…

4. It is indeed a “sorry state of affairs” when people are forced to give back a citizenship, wanted or not, that makes the possibility of leading a normal free life, with equal opportunities for all, in a country outside of the United States, an impossibility. When that country sees its “victims” as prey from whom to extort money via complex, convoluted and unjust “laws” and draconian penalties, then one should quickly realize that something is seriously wrong. When you see the elected officials of the U.S. do nothing to change the situation, but actually feed the propaganda machine, in many cases, and label anyone who is against this human outrage and their own abuse and extortion as, among other things, a tax evader, a traitor, a recalcitrant, “un-American” and a cheat, one realizes that democracy and “justice for all” are only illusions, then it’s time to be grateful to not live in such a terrible society and sever any and all official ties to a place like that.
   Possibly over 8 million people being harassed, abused, extorted, discriminated against, having their own and their family’s privacy violated, having thousands renouncing this toxic citizenship and long waits to accomplish this, at a high price, yet no interest from any leading “lawmaker”, nor much from any high level official, except to say repeatedly that “we will smoke out and get these tax cheats living overseas.” What a disgusting and repulsive state of affairs!

5. Henry….you nailed it!! What you said above is so true!

6. Of course those making these mafia style laws aren’t interested in the damage and suffering that they are causing to innocent, law-abiding citizens. They couldn’t care less! FATCA was created and enacted with one objective in mind, to make the US the go to tax haven, secrecy jurisdiction and money laundering center in the world. The US expats caught up in this nightmare are nothing but collateral damage for these US politicians. For them, it’s the price to pay to eliminate the fiscal paradise/tax haven competition and take their place. That is more outrageous than FATCA itself. Fortunately, many in the media are starting to take notice and write about it, even in the tightly controlled US press. This article in The Chicago Tribune focuses on who is the real tax haven and who really is an uncooperative tax jurisdiction. Guess who? http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-panama-papers-us-tax-haven-20160406-story.html

7. The news is out:

   http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/04/panama-papers-america-tax-haven-213800

8. Getting to this thread rather late. Another great post, Eric! I will provide a link to it in the next support document for the UN Complaint. One of the most important aspects of this whole abusive situation is the fact we are being denied rightful and timely access to the renunciation procedure. So many great comments above!

9. Badger: I’ve also quoted the quotes you provided. Thanks!

10. Here is an excellent article that appeared in the National Review:

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/433730/corporate-inversion-renouncing-us-citizenship-america-builds-walls-around-itself

11. @Eric, another beautiful job! Your dedication is much appreciated.

    @Victor, you nailed it.
    Here’s an interesting post from armstrongeconomics:

    https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/taxes/millionaires-migrate-to-usa/

    Not only is foreign money aggressively migrating to the US, but millionaires themselves.

12. Where the fuck is the $2400 going if not to improve customer service then? This is why nobody likes America. Can’t wait until this is over 😛

13. They could at least fix eforms.state.gov so I could get on with dropping my useless citizenship. Did anyone else just give up and fill out all the consulate forms in pen?

14. @ wtf — Call me old-fashioned, but I’d like pen and paper, too!

    Regarding the forms for renouncing, I checked them out recently. Maybe it’s my lack of skills, or my old computer, but I found the U.S. Embassy’s instructions (in Canada, at least) for the renunciation forms cumbersome and difficult to work with.

    “Complete the following forms according to the instructions. You will need to gather specific information in support of your application. Please fill out forms completely online as a fillable FAR document. Please note that the FAR file format is a unique type of format that you may not be able to re-open or edit once they are saved on your computer, however it is necessary for us to receive it in this format.”

    FAR format? Never heard of it. What’s with a file format that you can’t re-open or edit once you save it to your computer? After you scan your supporting documents (e.g., passport, birth certificate), you end up with an email request for an appointment with 6 or 8 or more attachments?

    https://ca.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/loss-of-nationality/

15. @Sally1: thanks for the kind words. Regarding millionaire migration, Martin Armstrong misinterpreted his source. The original research from New World Wealth (which he didn’t bother citing even though that’s obviously where he got his numbers) simply said that 10,000 French millionaires had left in total, not that 10,000 went to the US.

    The total millionaire outflow from the top eight outflow countries (France, China, Italy, India, Greece, Russia, Spain, Brazil) was ~38,000 individuals; net 7,000 moved to the US, versus 8,000 to Australia, 5,000 to Canada, 4,000 to Israel, 3,000 to the UAE, and 2,000 to NZ, i.e. the U.S. captured less than a fifth. Most HNWIs willing to move internationally are driven by general quality of life & safety issues, but e.g. according to Mercer, the US has no cities in the top 20 for quality of life, vs 2 for New Zealand, 3 for Canada, Australia, and Switzerland, and 5 for Germany. In my experience (which is admittedly skewed towards Asia), the ones who move to the US seem to be three types of exceptions:

    1. Investors who need to be physically present in order to do due diligence on their chosen asset class, e.g. real estate developers, VCs moving to Silly Valley, etc. (If they don’t need to be there in person all the time they can just send money to the US, knowing it will enjoy secrecy from the tax authorities of whatever other country they choose to live in)
    2. Thoses from countries having hostile relations with the US, who earned their money in shady ways and need to pick a new country that will be strong enough to resist extradition demands and will be ideologically inclined to do so
    3. Non-Anglophones who want to have access to speakers of their own language in some situations (e.g. for health care, legal consulations, etc.), but their language is not widespread and most earlier emigrants from their country moved to the US rather than other destinations

16. canoe: I’ve copied your comment to the UN Complaint support document as well. What you’ve revealed here is further evidence of obstacles being erected in the path to renunciation. How ridiculous to provide an online process that no one has heard of and no one can figure out how to use!

17. @canoe: there’s a save button in their web app that lets you download the form (if there’s no extension, just add the .far part) – then you can load and edit using the same online editor; the problem I ran into is that the website is so slow that it often times out before the editor loads, which is the only way to fill out the forma electronically.

    It’s definitely not my computer or internet connection that’s the problem, and I’m a software developer for a living… it’s just straight up broken most of the time :/

18. At least there Guiness on tap while you wait

19. So according to the Mercer survey Boston is number 2 for the US a few places behind SF.

    I can see why Boston came in 36th. The T is in a mess. It’s subway system is running old 25-40 year old trains with often old leaking stations. Government Center station just reopened after 2 years of renovations with buckets to be had for the leaks.

    Other problems begging, homelessness, while they spend time putting up $1M+ 700 sq Ft condos to Boston’s skyline.

    Yes Boston has had some successes such as GE deciding to locate its world HQ starting in a few months. However the real reason was Boston was a great city for infrastructure or even cost effective, GE wants to use the 60+ universities for recruiting beating the competition worldwide. Harvard and MIT grads will do well out of the arrangement.

    Anyone with money only wants to live either Boston or Cambridge to escape / or limit the hassles of the T. New trains are in the pipeline, but nothing to write home about, just new versions of the old trains – no imagination. The old signaling / tracks infrastructure will remain. Slow service in new trains – what good is that?

20. @wtf — Thank you for the tips. But good grief, if you, with your knowledge and skills, are having problems trying to use the FAR forms and the State Dept. website, then what hope is there for rest of us?

    @MuzzledNoMore — Good call. Whether this technical stuff is an intentional complication or just lousy and un-user-friendly from being poorly thought out, it’s another form of obstruction.

    @Eric — Thank you again for another brilliant analysis!

21. Always remember the United States mantra:

    DO AS WE SAY, NOT AS WE DO.

    The cynicism of U.S. “lawmakers” is sickening. FATCA was deceptively presented as a law to stand up to tax evasion and tax dodgers, when in reality, apart from the “collateral damage” caused to U.S. persons living outside the U.S., it was crafted and deployed in order to put as many tax havens in the world out of business, through crippling sanctions on their banks and other demands, all making those seeking a shelter for their secret, often illicit funds pack up and go right to the big monster himself, the U.S.A., now the number three secrecy jurisdiction and the tax haven of choice for all the illicit funds of the world.

    Yet, in spite of the fact that all this information is out there, as we can read in the many articles included in comments above, FATCA remains in force and U.S. persons continue to bear the brunt of this most cynical diabolic law. In most any other society, with this knowledge out there, no sane person would cooperate and file their forms and continue playing the game. There would be mass refusal on an unprecedented level. Sadly, the typical American obeys even when he is being abused, extorted and exploited. What is wrong with them?

22. “Call me old-fashioned, but I’d like pen and paper, too!”

    You’d better watch out. There’s a virus going around that encrypts all your paper documents and won’t let you have them back until you pay a ransom, payable only in worn low-denomination US currency with non-consecutive serial numbers. You can avoid this virus by installing a new flashlight at your abode (latest version released three days ago) but the next one will catch you if you’re not careful.

23. @ Norman Diamond
    Good one! LOL Would that be the Zappaper virus?

24. @ Norman Diamond — That IS good! Thanks for the laughs, which certainly are needed when dealing with this stuff.

25. @Don

    “However the real reason was Boston was a great city for infrastructure or even cost effective…”

    I long for the days of the Boston Tea Party; I mean, who wants to be taxed by a foreign state? (Or perhaps it is happening again on a global scale?…)