12 January 2022
UPDATE February 13, 2016
I have finally decided on a new name for this post, which will not continue on this thread but as a new post:
I have not been updating this post as regularly as I intended. I have two items for you to think about today. One is a comment from a psychologist; I think it is extremely important to hear from a professional, as to how this entire situation can affect the well-being of one caught up in it. The comment was made in the context of the 2 meetings that were organized to offer people a chance to talk openly without any fear of being exposed; June 15, 2013 & March 29, 2014 (which Dr. Young was scheduled for but missed due to illness). The second item is an actual obituary for “J” for whom you will now see his actual name. I have been reluctant to post it but it has to come out eventually. I would expect ALL to respect the privacy of his family in Sweden.
One last thing for today. Many have commented as to how they cannot understand (or even don’t believe this story because of this) how a father could do such a thing with two young children. I suspect those who outright disbelieve it do not actually have children. Any honest parent will admit to the difficulty of the constant sacrifice required and how sometimes it simply is too much. Parents are not saints and they suffer the same myriad of issues as anyone else. And it is common knowledge in the counselling world that people who commit suicide feel extreme guilt at being the source of a problem, so the solution, in order to protect, is to take themselves out of the equation. No one would question a parent putting themself in front of a car to protect a child (even one who wasn’t their own). On a certain level, it is exactly the same thing. Life is not neat and tidy and clear sometimes.
All of the emphases are mine:
In the words of Dr. Donald Young
For those U.S citizens who have elected to live abroad, be it in Canada or elsewhere, American tax policy can place such individuals in a position that engenders constant and severe emotional stress. The vindictiveness of the U.S. position, its unfairness and irrationality, the fact that neither the U.S. government nor tax and legal experts even know the rules and how to rationally proceed, and the constant threat of economic calamity are all factors that can be emotionally devastating. From my observations over the years in people ensnared in this situation, and I would count myself among us, it is common to experience substantial anxiety, depression, feelings of panic and foreboding, guilt over being branded a cheat and a criminal, fear, anger, resentment, and general feelings of helplessness and confusion. I have in fact seen some people who have become virtually suicidal at the prospect of losing everything for the “crime” of not paying taxes to a country they have not lived in for decades if ever at all. I am a clinical psychologist licensed to practice in Ontario with 35 years of experience. I have also been appointed an assistant professor in the Department of Psychiatry at the University of Toronto. In recent years I have had the opportunity to discuss and address these problems with many individuals who are trapped in these tragic circumstances
Along with John I am happy to make myself available in any of the forums or meetings that will be forthcoming. There is always strength in numbers and sometimes much can be gained by discussing common problems together in a group. I am also happy to chat or work with people individually with these concerns.
This is a link to the obituary . I am trying to post an actual picture but it is not coming out clearly enough to read. Will work on this.
UPDATE February 9, 2016
There has been some confusion about authorship of the letter/comment below. J did not say he (himself) wrote it and J’s father presented it as being from him. The comment on the site is anonymous. Clearly J sent it to his father and identified with it. For that reason, I am leaving it up as there is no way I can determine for certain that he did not write it.
UPDATE February 8, 2016
I have not decided what is the best way to pass on more information about J’s situation and am afraid adding it to the bottom of this post means you will be less likely to see it. So for now, I will simply add it to the top and bring it to your attention by the “Update” heading. I am not adding anything without talking to J’s Dad first.
I want to pass on now, some things about J himself, what he did and so on, so you can see what kind of person he was. I know a few facts, such as he was born in February, 1969 in California, he went to university at Cal Poly and went to Sweden to do his Ph.D (roughly, around 1990 – 1991). He passed away on June 10, 2015.
J worked at the Karolinska Institutet, at the Centre for Genomics and Bioinformatics in Stockholm, Sweden. Founded in 1810, it is one of the most prestigious medical universities in the world. J’s fields were Genetics & Genealogy, Neuroscience, Psychiatry & Psychology and some of his later articles refer to Alzheimer’s. He published at least 64 major articles, collaborated with 212 co-authors from 1994-2010, and was cited by 3857 authors. I am not an academic but for someone to publish 64 pieces by the time he was 41 (already having two children) suggests to me this was a highly motivated person who was more than competent and clearly engaged and focused.
Here is a letter that J’s Dad provided which J had sent him.
I have a dream, an American dream.
I live in Sweden, which is hardly a tax haven. I am a citizen of that country as well as a US citizen. I have lived outside of the US for close to 25 years and thought I led a normal law abiding life. Unfortunately, the overzealous and poorly thought out attempts to catch US resident tax evaders have cast me and other overseas residents as criminals.
I am one of the few overseas residents who actually knew that I had to file taxes and did so. Last year, I needed to amend my US taxes due to a reporting error made by my overseas employer and I learned that as I had failed to file a form reporting my overseas bank accounts (the FBAR), the only option I had was to enter a so-called amnesty program, in which I have been told for this omission, I need to pay the US government 25% of my life savings, retirement plans, house, and car, all of which have been earned by legitimate employment overseas.
The “bank accounts” that I must report to the US government include life insurance policies, telephone prepaid cards, my customer card at the supermarket and my lunch card at work. The latter three must be reported, along with their highest balance (try to calculate that on a supermarket rebate card) all because they fit the definition of a debit card. All of this under threat of a penalty of USD 10,000 per account if I make a mistake in reporting. I think the most my lunch card has ever had on it was USD 60.
To add insult to the injury I described above, during 2011, FATCA began to be implemented in Sweden and my Swedish bank informed me that I would no longer be allowed to have any investment accounts because of my American citizenship.
FATCA also requires that for my 2011 taxes, I will need to file another form that repeats a lot of the information on the FBAR form and will cost me at least another three hours of accountant time. The much loved number of USD 10,000 in penalties is again threatened if I make a mistake on this form.
American information reporting requirements have become so demanding that I have made all kinds of new friends in my Swedish bank and tax authority. I get to challenge them to provide documentation that makes no sense in Sweden, but helps me to meet the US requirements. Without these wonderful FATCA requirements, I might have just led an unobtrusive life and like most other residents here, had very little to do with these people. Now I stick out like a sore thumb. FATCA has afforded me with the opportunity to prove to Swedes that Americans are different, demanding and difficult.
I have spent less than a year in the US in the last 25 years. Where you spend your childhood stays with you and I have a strong emotional tie to the US. So even though indications are that it would be in my best interest to renounce my citizenship, I plod stubbornly along in the face of all the abuse and try to believe in the American “truth and justice” I was taught about as a child.
That is why I appreciate your article. It will help to make public the unfortunate consequences of the poorly conceived FATCA legislation. Maybe it will help me and other overseas US citizens to be able to return to leading a normal life. That is all I desire in my American dream.
(Written a year ago in response to an article in a local paper)
“(Written a year ago* in response to an article in a local paper)”
*this comment plus the following 2 facts suggest this letter was written sometime in the first half 2012. I have not been able to locate the article it refers to. The date on the Word file is 20 October 2013-I cannot be sure who saved this Word File (i.e., J or his Dad) but given his comments about the 2011 taxes and form 8938, I believe this letter was written in the first half 2012, prior to the June 30 deadline for the filing of taxes.
(It is very clear J is aware of the 2011 OVDI program.)
Obviously, he did not suffer from a major psychiatric illness such as schizophrenia, dissociative personality disorder or any psychopathic or sociopathic diseases. There is nothing to suggest he suffers from bi-polar disorder. It can be noticed that he stopped publishing in 2010 and can be demonstrated that he knew of FATCA in 2011. If he suffered a major depressive issue, it might be possible to say it coincided with his awareness of FATCA, FBAR, etc. And I will relate freely that I have been diagnosed with major depressive disease, many years ago. And have been most fortunate to have received the appropriate medication to deal with it. I do not consider my diagnosis to be indicative of the stigma of “mental illness.” (i.e., it is not a psychological issue but a biological one.)
This next item is a letter J’s Dad wrote to Rep. Eshoo, 2 weeks before J passed away.
28th May 2015
Dear Ms. Eshoo,
This morning my son called me almost in tears in an anxiety of which I thought him incapable.
When I picked up the receiver I did not think it was him. I had to ask several times who it was.My son is a researcher at the Karolinska Institute, working in biochemistry and genetics.
He is hard working, utterly conscientious, and has published many, many papers in his field.
He has a beautiful family. His wife works for the Nobel Foundation. The Karolinska Institute
in Sweden is from whence Nobel prizes originate – I’m sure you know this.I was (am) deeply concerned. I listened carefully. I felt he sounded suicidal. As a dedicated researcher,
honest and thorough, he is used to delving into complex issues and writing his conclusions. So what
complex problem could possibly be driving a deeply thoughtful person into such a level of anxiety?My son was born into your constituency in the United States. After graduating from Cal Poly he
went to finish his PhD in brain chemistry in Sweden. He has worked hard (and successfully)
for twenty years to turn his small research salary into some savings. And that is the problem.Banks everywhere in the world now (including Russia) want nothing to do with a depositor
who is American. So what is one of the seven to ten million Americans working permanently or occasionally abroad supposed to do?My son a year ago started conscientiously reading all the US laws pertaining to “foreign” earnings.
These are very complicated documents. The more he read the more complex they seemed. He tried
(and is trying) his best to comply with all the requirements, Including finding a CPA in New York and
several in Sweden.My son has already paid every tax he owes – in Sweden they are, bar none, the highest in the world.
But here are these US requirements requiring him to declare all foreign earnings, pensions, savings,
passive investments, etc. and to pay a tax on top of what he has already paid to Sweden simply
because he was here at birth.Trying to figure out these requirements and to comply has driven him to desperation. He sees terrifying scenarios in which he is asking, for what? The US is the only country (besides Eritrea) demanding this.
There are seven to ten million honest Americans living abroad. FATCA is being used as a sledgehammer
(of IRS abuse?) to catch a fly or two – inconsequential financially – of those who abuse our system.Ms. Eshoo – Rescind FATCA! The blood will be upon your heads – congress and yours! if my son is driven
to suicide after a year of dealing with the consequences of this horrible, unjust, draconian, and miserably self-defeating law. Is it worth losing a just citizen just for this?As matters unfold he may not, I’m afraid, be the only one of millions.
Yours respectfully,
xxxx (J’s Dad)
This is the end of what I am adding for today. I am sure many of you will have something to say about all this………..
********
@AnnaEshoo A Father’s Anguish Over the Loss of his Son – Horrible Struggle due to #FBAR #FATCA https://t.co/LC1Frng6x5 PLEASE READ THIS
— Patricia Moon (@nobledreamer16) February 8, 2016
*****
This concerns absolutely the worst news I have ever come across in the 4+ years I have been immersed in this situation. I am not going to even try and address anything beyond this simple explanation so you have some context.
A couple of days ago, a comment that somehow was never seen/approved became visible on the renounceuscitizenship wordpress blog. The comment consisted of two letters. Given the fact this was written last July as well as the serious nature of what it concerns, it was decided to keep it in pending until we had made contact with the author, to make sure he still intended for it to remain public. I have spoken with him and he does want it to be seen. However, nobody is likely to see the comment on that particular post since it is 7 months old. So the two letters are being posted here now. Ms. Eshoo, to whom the letters are addressed, is the Congresswoman (D) from the 18th Congressional District of California. She also spent 20 years (1993-2013) as the Congresswoman for the 14th District. She voted “Aye” for the H.I.R.E. Act. There has been no response from Ms. Eshoo.
One thought on “Statement from @AARO (unlike @DEMSabroad) supports Bopp #FATCA lawsuit”
July 21, 2015 at 11:28 pm
25th June 2015
Ms. Eshoo
When you and your fellow co-conspirators in congress voted on FATCA you murdered my son
This beautiful person who wanted to live out his dream in peace in another land was destroyed by you.
You and your fellow co-conspirators, with your unattainable requirements,
boxed him into a mental dilemma from which he could not escape.
As a just person he found your injustice in FATCA incomprehensible.
After a year of intensely trying to figure out what to do
he committed suicide.
There are families in grief in your constituency.
There are families in mourning on both sides of the Atlantic.
You have destroyed a decent person worth a thousand Obamas.
You have ruined the happiness of dozens of friends and family members
through your cruelty revealed within this monstrous law.
You have utterly destroyed our faith in government with the
incomprehensibility, inhumanity and malice of this law.
Your only hope of atonement?
Repeal FATCA NOW
Sincerely in grief,
xxxxxx
*****
14th July 2015
Dear Ms. Eshoo,
Re: Death of J., a citizen of Sweden
Thus is clearly an over-reach by an agency of the US government of the grossest magnitude. FATCA affects eight-and-a-half million Americans occupying themselves honorably abroad. This is IRS abuse on a scale far vaster than the diminutive insults inflicted by Lois Lerner’s 501(c)(3) scandal. FATCA is an act of IRS persecution, with a far greater ill effect on American lives than Lois Lerner’s pinpricks. It cannot be dismissed in a form letter.
I have filed the cause of his death as: “Persecution by an Agency of the Government of the United States.”
It is clear that the United States is in full violation of its Principles on U.S. foreign policy and most Articles of the Declaration of Human Rights. (For reference you may see both Principles and Articles appended below.)
FATCA, signed into law by Mr. Obama on the 18th of March 2010, can be shown to violate these Principles and Articles with the uttermost disregard possible.
Here is a preamble to this law:
“The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) is a United States federal law requiring United States persons (including those living outside the U.S.) to have yearly reported themselves and their non-U.S. financial accounts to the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FINCEN), and requires all non-US (Foreign) Financial Institutions (FFI’s) to search their records for suspected US persons for reporting their assets and identities to the US Treasury. Congress enacted FATCA to make it more difficult for (resident and non-resident) U.S. persons to have financial assets which are not located in the United States, by adding further asset-reporting law with consequences, and thus to enable further federal tax revenues and penalties from a wider global population of newly discovered US persons and their partners, at the expense of non-US banks.”
Just looking at Articles 1, 2 and 3 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, one already sees that the IRS is over-reaching by its criminalization of every American living abroad, and in making them report to the “Financial Crimes Enforcement Network”, as if it’s already proven that every American living abroad is abroad with criminal intent.
In Article 1 “All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights” is clearly not true when FINCEN
Is searching “the… records of suspected US persons for reporting their assets and identities” – is it enough to be suspected that allows the IRS to take way a person’s dignity and rights? And what right does the IRS have to do this to anyone anywhere outside the US, let alone to a Swedish citizen?
In Article 2 “Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration” with “no distinction … on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs.” So the rights and freedoms are universal but the IRS is allowed to go far beyond its domestic charter in going after anyone anywhere, even against the laws of another country?
In Article 3 is the most fundamental of all “Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.” Clearly the authors of FATCA thought the rights of anyone irrelevant to the needs of the US government.
One may look at Articles 4, 5 and 6 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and one sees that
(i) “No-one shall be held in slavery or servitude”, (ii) “No one shall be subjected to torture, or to cruel, nhuman or degrading treatment or punishment”, and (iii) “Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law”. Except, of course, when it’s a US law which utterly disregards the laws of every other country in the world, including Sweden. And except when that slavery is due to an agency of the US government, namely the IRS, which is trying desperately to keep Americans abroad in servitude, and except where that torture is the daily threat to appropriate a part or all of every asset a person has acquired abroad by honest labor, and which has already been taxed at the highest rate in the world, as in Sweden.
That is just touching the surface of the malfeasance of this run-amok agency of the US government. The true magnitude of what FATCA has perpetrated and achieved is utterly appalling. No other country in the world has ever persecuted its citizens like this for migrating abroad. EVER.
To look a little further into this “Reign of Terror” of a US agency, one may see its truly malign influence on individuals, commerce and foreign relations. Everyone knows that no bank abroad wants anything to do with an individual born in America or bearing an American passport: this makes travel and commerce impossible.
But that is beside the point: it’s the US law and must prevail globally. That FATCA has poisoned international relations, has made the US a demi-pariah, and is even being copied by neo-soviet states like Russia, is beside the point: it’s the US law and must prevail globally. This is clearly nonsense, but it is the law, indiscriminate and vicious.
It is particularly where FATCA preys on individuals that the damage to human rights is most gross. In my son’s case it was first, the closing down of his Swedish bank account. It was then his realization that the government of the United States was after a complete accounting of every asset he had earned in Sweden with hard, honest labor over a period of twenty years. As a Swedish citizen, he had already been taxed at the highest rate in the world bar none. This sense of persecution and injustice by an alien agent was continuously and overwhelmingly felt by him.
From Article 3 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights “Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person” (in the Declaration of Independence “ … the pursuit of happiness”), J. experienced the “loss of happiness” as a result of losing his bank account, and gradually, as he realized the full magnitude of the requirements of FATCA, in the torture of its implications. J. lost his liberty when finding out, just before his death, that his communications with his bank (and only those communications) had been compromised. He knew then that he had no liberty, as guaranteed by Article 3, at all.
Hemmed in by the egregious requirements of an incomprehensible and unjust alien law, J. saw his life as being made increasingly worthless. He was isolated within Sweden, among Swedish friends, as a pariah. His protection under the laws of Sweden, where he was a deeply law-abiding citizen, he witnessed evaporating. Anguished by the dilemmas of FATCA – he would not pay an unjust tax for owning property in Sweden nor would he pay the tax for giving up his U.S. citizenship – why should he? – he went out and hanged himself. His daughter went outside and found him hanging by his neck in the morning.
So J. lost his happiness, he lost his liberty (and “security of person”) and thrust into isolation utterly by a country he loved (but, in keeping his passport, he wished to return to one day) he went out and killed himself. In a mockery by FATCA’s blind injustice this proved to invert “Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness” into the opposite, completely miss-stating the order of these words in the Declaration of Independence.
Article 30 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights says: “Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.” The “State” to which this refers is the United States; the “activity” or “act” being performed to which this refers is the activity of FATCA; the “destruction” to which this refers is the deliberate destruction by an agency of the US government of all of J’s rights and freedoms as set forth above.
I have therefore listed, as I must in honesty, the cause of J’s death as “Persecution by an Agency of the Government of the United States”. More simply “Persecution by the government” of which you are a part.
I believe the United States under Mr. Obama is wholly and uniquely responsible for this most diabolical law.
FATCA violates fully half of the articles of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Therefore FATCA will be,
as it must be, abolished by the United States, else the Universal Declaration of Human Rights means nothing.
FATCA is also totally against the Principles appended below, that “Promoting freedom and democracy and protecting human rights around the world are central to U.S. foreign policy”. My son’s human rights, as a decent, honorable citizen of Sweden, were stripped from him mercilessly by FATCA, making a mockery of
these Principles.
Which part of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights that do you do not understand, Ms. Eshoo? That somehow being enthralled by Mr. Obama’s oratory, in a congress filled with Democrats, you could go ahead and pass any law Mr. Obama wanted, Human Rights be damned? This congress, known as “The Brutal One-Eleventh” for the laws you whipped through, undertook the passage of these laws in utter disregard for the rights of American citizens at home or anywhere.
J. leaves behind a Swedish wife and two beautiful Swedish children. It leaves behind individuals all over the United States and Europe grieving for a beautiful person essentially murdered by an act ill-considered by congress and signed into law by a feckless Obama. The stigma of FATCA is one which you and your fellow Democrats – Pelosi, Reid and Obama – will bear forever.
Millions of people around the globe are regretting that Mr. Obama ever came into office. The world burns while feckless Obama dithers. I am regretting this monster infinitely more than anyone with the loss of my son.
Sincerely, and in immense grief,
xxxxxxx, father to J
APPENDICES
A. Principles. Under the US Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor it says the following:
“Promoting freedom and democracy and protecting human rights around the world are central to U.S. foreign policy. The values captured in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and in other global and regional commitments are consistent with the values upon which the United States was founded centuries ago. The United States supports those persons who long to live in freedom and under democratic governments that protect universally accepted human rights. The United States uses a wide range of tools to advance a freedom agenda, including bilateral diplomacy, multilateral engagement, foreign assistance, reporting and public outreach, and economic sanctions. The United States is committed to working with democratic partners, international and regional organizations, non-governmental organizations, and engaged citizens to support those seeking freedom.”
B. Articles. PREAMBLE TO THE UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS
“Whereas recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world,
Whereas disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in barbarous acts which have outraged the conscience of mankind, and the advent of a world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and belief and freedom from fear and want has been proclaimed as the highest aspiration of the common people,
Whereas it is essential, if man is not to be compelled to have recourse, as a last resort, to rebellion against tyranny and oppression, that human rights should be protected by the rule of law,
Whereas it is essential to promote the development of friendly relations between nations,
Whereas the peoples of the United Nations have in the Charter reaffirmed their faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person and in the equal rights of men and women and have determined to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,
Whereas Member States have pledged themselves to achieve, in co-operation with the United Nations, the promotion of universal respect for and observance of human rights and fundamental freedoms,
Whereas a common understanding of these rights and freedoms is of the greatest importance for the full realization of this pledge,
Now, Therefore THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY proclaims THIS UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS as a common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations, to the end that every individual and every organ of society, keeping this Declaration constantly in mind, shall strive by teaching and education to promote respect for these rights and freedoms and by progressive measures, national and international, to secure their universal and effective recognition and observance, both among the peoples of Member States themselves and among the peoples of territories under their jurisdiction.”
Article 1.
• All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Article 2.
• Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.
Article 3.
• Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.
Article 4.
• No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.
Article 5.
• No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.
Article 6.
• Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.
Article 7.
• All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.
Article 8.
• Everyone has the right to an effective remedy by the competent national tribunals for acts violating the fundamental rights granted him by the constitution or by law.
Article 9.
• No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.
Article 10.
• Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.
Article 11.
• (1) Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.
• (2) No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.
Article 12.
• No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.
Article 13.
• (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.
• (2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.
Article 14.
• (1) Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.
• (2) This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.
Article 15.
• (1) Everyone has the right to a nationality.
• (2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.
Article 16.
• (1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
• (2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.
• (3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.
Article 17.
• (1) Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.
• (2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.
Article 18.
• Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.
Article 19.
• Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.
Article 20.
• (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.
• (2) No one may be compelled to belong to an association.
Article 21.
• (1) Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.
• (2) Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country.
• (3) The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.
Article 22.
• Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.
Article 23.
• (1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.
• (2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.
• (3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.
• (4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.
Article 24.
• Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.
Article 25.
• (1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
• (2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.
Article 26.
• (1) Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.
• (2) Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for the maintenance of peace.
• (3) Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.
Article 27.
• (1) Everyone has the right to freely to participate in the cultural life of the community,
to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits.
• (2) Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any
scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.
Article 28.
Everyone is entitled to a social and international order in which the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration can be fully realized.
Article 29.
• (1) Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible.
• (2) In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society.
• (3) These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.
Article 30.
• Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.
This thread continues on a new post:
A #FATCA Related Suicide
If clicking on a link brings you to the wrong place in the comment stream, click on this link. (It may bring you to the page before the current one, but it’s closer.)
https://twitter.com/JahMekAWail/status/695984295739981825
@Neill,
I read today that 1/2 of Americans have less than $10,000 in savings, so when those people think about how the other half lives, they might well mean anyone who has to fill out an FBAR!
@Embee
Probably wouldn’t be realistic, but I would like to see every financing measure passed on its own merits, not just bolted to something really popular. A little birdie told me that FATCA would have probably passed based on the sheer public support, but looking at the record Congress really didn’t go over FATCA much on the floor and the way that Levin described it doesn’t actually match the bill’s text.
Regardless of the specifics of this case, I think that we all can agree that FATCA/CBT is putting people under way too much pressure. I find that sports that require lots of attention (ice skating and windsurfing) are helpful because there is no way you can think about FATCA while doing them or you fall over really fast.
Correlation may not equal causation; but I think that there is a strong argument to be made for a hypothesis that there is a very strong association or correlation between the fear, anxiety, depression and anger experienced by us, and the past years of the deliberate campaign of fear and threats waged by the US government, IRS and Treasury and directed towards those with what they continue to define as ‘foreign’ ‘offshore’ accounts – in which they continue to include the local legal (and often entirely post-tax) assets belonging to people living entirely outside the US with no US economic connection.
Unemployment and economic crises are recognized as factors or determinants of mental health and suicide;for example see for ex. “… It is well known that mental health problems are related to deprivation, poverty, inequality and other social and economic determinants of health. Economic crises are therefore times of high risk to the mental well-being of the population and of the people affected and their families….” from; ‘Impact of economic
crises on mental health’ WHO report – The Regional Office for Europe of the World Health Organization http://www.euro.who.int/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/134999/e94837.pdf .
Why would this financial crisis created by FBARs and FATCA and US extraterritorial CBT not qualify as a significant negatively impacting factor even though it is confined to individuals and their families defined as ‘UStaxablepersons’ ‘abroad’, rather than more traditionally defined sectors of society such as economic classes?
The use of threats and fear to foster compliance and to deter people from non-compliance are regularly written about in tax journals. For example, search for the word ‘fear’ in resources like this one; ‘Tax Compliance and Tax Morale: A Theoretical and Empirical Analysis’ Benno Torgler, Edward Elgar Publishing, Jan 1, 2007 https://books.google.ca/books?id=xFYijxMKjqAC&lpg=PA83&ots=T3LpMu3Hq1&dq=tax%20journals%20AND%20use%20of%20fear%20AND%20compliance&pg=PA69#v=onepage&q=fear&f=false
The Taxpayer Advocate has tried to advocate for a different approach, and urged the IRS to; “…identify challenges to the IRS’s administration of a humane, effective, and efficient tax system as it implements programs to address the tax gap…”.. ( see ‘Minding the Gap: A Ten-Step Program for Better Tax Compliance ‘ January 2009 20 Stan.L.& Pol’y Rev. 7 by Nina E. Olson, National Taxpayer Advocate before the U.S. Internal Revenue Service at https://journals.law.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/stanford-law-policy-review/print/2009/01/olson_20_stan._l._poly_rev._7.pdf ). The IRS has not taken her advice (ex. see http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/01/09/nina-olson-releases-the-2012-national-tax-advocate-report-to-congress/ despite her efforts in subsequent reports such as http://www.taxpayeradvocate.irs.gov/2013-Annual-Report/downloads/INTERNATIONAL-TAXPAYER-SERVICE-The-IRS-Is-Taking-Important-Steps-to-Improve-International-Taxpayer-Service-Initiatives.pdf, more at http://www.taxpayeradvocate.irs.gov/reports ).
Strong correlation cannot not be dismissed just because it does not meet the threshold of proven scientific causation. Often causation cannot be sufficiently studied or proven. But that does not mean that there is not a significant and debilitating event occurring which significantly harms people and their families – for example; see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/behindtheheadlines/news/2015-02-11-unemployment-and-job-insecurity-linked-to-increased-risk-of-suicide/ or income as a determinant of health ex. https://ontario.cmha.ca/mental-health/services-and-support/income/ . What threatens our income, our savings, our sense of self and our family wellbeing has the potential to threaten our mental and physical wellbeing.
No-one is studying our situation, so we have a hypothesis, but no way to produce had data to support what we see as a strong correlation. No research is being conducted into what we experience/d and most of the coverage in the media is not even accurate and factual. The US government and our own home governments are trying as hard as they can to keep the whole situation invisible – or generating propaganda to deny that there is any issue at all (see statements by the Mythster Stack and commentary http://tax-expatriation.com/2014/01/22/how-much-myth-versus-reality-is-in-the-treasurys-claim-myth-vs-fatca-the-truth-about-treasurys-effort-to-combat-offshore-tax-evasion/ . We have had to try and counter the Mythster as best we can; ex. http://we-are-not-a-myth.tumblr.com/ http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/presentations-and-submissions-on-fatcacbt/ .
The IRS used in the past years, and still uses threats to frighten people into the OVD programs – see particularly series of statements by IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman about the OVD as the ‘last, best chance’ ( ex. Statement by IRS Commissioner Douglas H. Shulman IR-2011-14, October 26, 2009), and to try and keep them from filing forward prospectively (still entirely legal) and from backfiling in ‘quiet’ disclosures (still entirely legal). Before the first version of the Streamlined program that took effect in Sept. 2012, there was no other avenue being offered up by the IRS in order for people to correct honest mistakes or “come into compliance” once they learned about FBAR, 3520/As, PFICs, etc. And anyone who had entered the various iterations of the OVD programs (2009, 2011, etc.) faced an expensive, perilous and uphill battle even if they owed zero US tax. The IRS tried to block people from opting out of the early OVD by threats of massive fines even higher than those in the programs (see FAQ 35 abuse ex. https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B0SLTNWD-Z3YNTUxYTI5M2YtODYyMi00NzljLTk3YmMtOGYxMjBkZmMyMzZl ).
The comments of the IRS Taxpayer Advocate in her reports to Congress, and in other public statements that I quoted above are evidence that the fear factor is and was very real, and was used as a deliberate tactic on the part of the IRS. Olson has said;
http://www.taxanalysts.com/www/features.nsf/Articles/FD2860D17810639485257D6B0052AC9C?OpenDocument
The threats and fear campaigns were publicly and repeatedly declared a ‘success’ by the IRS – who issued statements about how their OVD programs had driven ‘tax cheats’ to ‘come forward’ and cough up substantial sums of money – but neglecting to note that it was NOT US tax owed, but FBAR and OVD penalties that made up the bulk of the revenues. They also neglected to acknowledge that ‘minnows’ paid far more proportionately in penalties than did those with higher incomes – a result that only really came to public light after investigation by the Taxpayer Advocate (“…… Olson observed that a similar disproportionality emerged in recent IRS offshore voluntary disclosure initiatives, when the highest proportionate fines fell on the smallest accounts. In 2009 the median unreported balance for the smallest accounts was $44,000, she said. The lowest-balance account holders paid an FBAR penalty almost six times the actual tax due, she said. Yet the top 10 percent, with a median unreported balance of $7 million, paid a penalty roughly half the amount of tax owed, she said. “Again, that comes back to that proportionality issue,” Olson said. “So you’re really looking at this and thinking, why are we doing this to folks? Why are we tormenting them in this way?” October 8, 2014 ‘FATCA ‘Tormenting’ Taxpayers, Olson Says’ by William Hoffman
http://www.taxanalysts.com/www/features.nsf/Articles/FD2860D17810639485257D6B0052AC9C?OpenDocument ).
I can attest that the more I found out after my OMG moment, the more complex it became, and the more all avenues to rectify the situation appeared to be deliberately blocked by the IRS. It appeared that they did NOT really want people to comply – and compliance was extremely difficult and expensive to achieve. US tax and tax law professionals were asking for retainers of 10,000. up front – and aprox. 2,000. per filing year to bring people up to date. OVD programs were exponentially more expensive because the IRS dragged them out for years – and came with a built in penalty. I and many others experienced anxiety, stress, inability to sleep, depression, and other symptoms that were directly attributable to this situation, and which were prolonged because no real resolution was in sight, came with unacceptable ccosts, or was filled with uncertainty and risk.
This situation carries a heightened risk of threat to wellbeing; ex. triggering anxiety, depression, and other mental and physical conditions,physical suicide and the threat posed by the US government’s FBAR/FATCA and associated extraterritorial campaigns – particularly when it comes as a complete and utter shock, and when so much is at stake.
The references to us as ‘tax cheats’, the treatment of us as criminals who must report our local legal accounts to a Financial CRIMES ENFORCEMENT Network (and accounts of our non-US employers, family, business associates, estates, etc. in some circumstances) assails our core vision of ourselves, our worth, integrity and financial stability and that of our family, businesses (ex. ordinary individual Canadian medical practices as ‘offshore foreign corporations’) and threatens our ordinary banking (to receive wages, hold mortgages, save for disability, retirement and education).
None of this is news to the IRS nor should it come as a surprise when US government actions have been flagged as likely to result in significant harm and a contributor to people re/acting in unpredictable ways.
@Neill
Same here and I was extremely distraught over the whole thing. Absolutely sick.
@Heidi
Yes- we don`t know this man and even if a lot of people have been extremely distraught over the persecution by FATCA- how many have actually committed suicide? If FATCA actually caused people to kill themselves we would hear of many more cases. People look for solutions and usually don`t chose to kill themselves.
I am not on the opposite side, people. I am a victim too. Otherwise I wouldn’t be here. What I am saying here is that one cannot prove that this man didn’t have another underlying mental disorder to push him over the brink. If this were not so, then many more would be killing themselves. To say “I was at the brink of suicide” and to actually kill yourself is that very factor that makes the difference between somebody who is mentally unstable and somebody who isn’t. If one wants to use this case as an argument against FATCA then I think people will say exactly what I have been saying because I know what the medical field would say. Can FATCA push people who are emotionally unstable over the brink? Yes- THAT could be a decisive factor, as JapanT pointed out previously.
I told a TAS agent about the experiences and online and in person expressions of depression, despair, anxiety, and reports by some expats of thoughts of suicide – and flagged the particular role of the FBAR threats as a factor, years ago after my OMG moment. The TAS was also told via SAMS. The IRS has known about this heightened situation of stress and fear and anxiety and depression amongst those ‘abroad’ burdened with the FBAR curse for a long time.
Yes, it’s a tragedy that this man didn’t look for others who were experiencing what he was going through. It would have been easy to find others, had he wanted to. Perhaps that’s the difference for those who go down that dark path of depression that might lead to taking one’s life – that the situation is so hopeless that you are unable to reach out to others.
I consider myself blessed to have all of you. On the other hand, I might have been extremely elated to have reached out and NOT found anyone – it might have meant that it was all in my head. I would have much preferred knowing I was delusional over being angry AF every day.
@NativeCanadian
Could your wife be persuaded to participate here at Brock, or one of the Facebook groups, such as those for accidentals?
@George,
>I think I know the answer if you were asked would you do it again.
I don’t want to tell others what to do.
During the whole process I wished I had never entered the program. What they did to us was pretty terrible. I had said to many people we should never have entered it.
Situations change though. Now the streamlined program may be great for many people. The fines are small but you don’t get closure. The balance penalty on streamlined could be bigger but maybe not unless your tax compliant.
When we became citizens we had to say we had paid all taxes owned. Since what caused our problems was a realization we hadn’t paid all they thought we owed we likely couldn’t have become citizens without doing something. Remember I can’t really escape the IRS so citizenship is kind of forced on me.
I should never have been so quick to contact the tax pros and do what they told me. OVDP was an absolute mistake for me. Streamlined would have been better but it didn’t exist. Then again we paid a huge amount of back taxes with PFIC so streamlined might not have protected me enough.
At least with OVDP they can’t do anything to me for those years and before. I am tax compliant going back forever as a consequence of that.
Obviously all of this would change if I didn’t live in the US.
Never, ever trust the IRS. They will screw you given the chance.
Never let the tax pros get you into a complex program where they control your costs etc. Don’t assume they know whats best to do.
@ Publius
I know it was wishful thinking to expect mandatory reading of all legislation but legislators consistently fail to take seriously the gravity and possible consequences of the legislation they pass. They need to improve their game or get booted out.
@ badger
Your comment … knowledgable, comprehensive, accurate … simply awesome. This is the sort of thought I would like congresspersons to put into their work as legislators.
As for a suggestion for a title?
How about something about “collateral damage”?
@Publius,
Stats are frightening. It seems most Americans can’t scrape together $3k for an emergency. The culture of consumption is terrible.
@Polly, correlation is significant even if it is not causation.
I am speaking generally when I say that I don’t think that an underlying mental health condition explains outcomes sufficiently when ordinary people are exposed to extraordinary pressures. This situation came out of the blue for many. The worst stressors are those which are unpredictable and seem out of our control.
I felt immediate relief after my ordeal was over. I found important support here, and information that helped me chart my path out of the quicksand – but only at enormous personal, familial and financial costs. And I owed zero US tax, and make so little that the compliance costs ate up more than I made in a year. The cost and the stress really harmed me and my family too. This was an unforeseen and unusual life event – which most non-US people around me didn’t know anything about and were not affected by.
Ironically, even my doctor – a US person abroad – didn’t know anything about it.
After reading the comments here I think I’d just shorten the title of this post to “Perhaps …”.
Perhaps if members of congress had actually read and properly analyzed the H.I.R.E. act they would not have passed it with FATCA included. Problem prevented.
Perhaps if all the governments being bullied into FATCA submission had replied instead with a collective NO then FATCA would have been a NO GO. Problem prevented.
Perhaps if the IRS had not been so relentless and unempathetic in its pursuit of the non-compliant then workable pathways to compliance would have been created. Problem prevented.
Perhaps if J had found the support available at Brock and the Sandbox he would have chosen to fight instead of the dreadful “solution” he chose. Problem prevented.
Perhaps …
@bubblebustin, I’m not sure about;
“….. It would have been easy to find others, had he wanted to….”.
It is much easier to find others now who are affected – via IBS, etc. but early on, that wasn’t the case.
And even when I’ve met other USPs in person, most were in denial, many refused to believe it or me. One who became compliant and experienced the complexity of it and the fear, did an abrupt about face and in the end, for whatever reason, chose not to renounce – and won’t talk about it anymore – though extraterritorial US CBT will be left as an unexploded jeopardy hanging over their family when they go.
Some others as far as I know have done nothing to prepare to even minimize their growing financial and thus their US tax complexity and exposure – though one is now moving temporarily to the US for a spouse’s work, they have never acknowledged the peril – and basically acted like I was paranoid. They cannot return to being a USP dual under the radar because they have a US passport and are now going right into the lions den.
Even those close to me stopped being willing to learn or talk about it way before it was all over for me – leaving me very alone to educate myself, and to face it over a period of years. Kept saying; its over now, its over now, way before it ever really was, and even now, due to statute of limitations, in theory it isn’t over – though practically speaking it most likely is.
Being alone with this was the very worst thing. It was like being a leper. And when those close to you minimize or deny the reality, that is even worse than the invisibility in public. It also was a very real strain on my family. And my US relatives had never heard of FBAR, much less appreciate the IRS view of my ordinary Canadian savings like my TFSA, etc.
I give IBS full credit – it was only because my spouse attended that very first session in TO that they acknowledged that it wasn’t all in my head. I couldn’t go – had to work – to help pay however little I could contribute to the compliance costs. Petros and the rest of the presenters – bless Allison Christians! – helped to make this real for a non-USP Canadian and helped give credence to my fears and stress.
That is one of the reasons I am still here though no longer a USP. I owe a debt of gratitude and want to help and spare others. And get justice done.
I can’t think of a title for this post that doesn’t have language too obscene for printing on IBS. US tax and FBAR requirements for expats creates extraordinary pressures for many innocent people. And it is unprecedented. No one had experienced this particular type of injustice before FATCA. We are in new territory as far as the USA extending it’s laws extraterritorially. Some are able to deal with difficult situations better than others. Then there are those with relatively simple financial situations and others who have more financial complexity with regard to US tax and penalties.
This unfortunate man who committed suicide likely felt trapped and saw no way out. If only he had fully realized that all the fault for this belonged to the US government, financial bureaucracy and IRS. He was simply an innocent victim who needed to find hope.
Sorry I can’t be a Canadian witness because I seriously went to the doctor’s in tears telling him I was having a nervous breakdown. He prescribed two different anxiety pills and tranquilizers to take (documented in his records) and my family would be willing to describe all the tears and desperation for 6 months after my OMG moment. It was a life changing moment for me and I am still a “different” person than who I was before ….
@badger
There’s nothing in this man’s story that he even tried to reach out to others like him. I’m just speculating that perhaps that’s the difference between those who despair to the point of suicide and those who don’t. I don’t mean to blame the victim here, because there’s no doubt that this situation is the direct cause of unbearable mental anguish (anger, I’ve been told is a manifestation of fear – and I’m full of it). Do I suffer from depression over this? Probably, at least to some degree. I guess at this point I prefer to rip someone else’s head off, rather than explore the unthinkable. I suppose in all of this, that’s something to be grateful for.
AND….I think the reason I felt so desperate and empty inside is the profound sense of betrayal by someone or something that should be protecting you not trying to ruin you. The title should be similar to what they write on cigarette packs….BEWARE!! US citizenship is dangerous to your health and well-being!!
Reaching out to others is a definite plus with a situation like FATCA. Without IBS, ADCS and Maple Sandbox, the journey would have been a lot more difficult. John Richardson’s info session was a life saver for me.
Lots of discussion here. Lots of pain here. Lots of anger here. Lots of empathy here. Lots of understanding here. By here I mean at the Isaac Brock Society blog .
This post was also posted at a number of Facebook groups (Examples: AmericanExpatriates: 6 comments, AARO 3 comments, CitizenshipTaxation 3 comments, and probably more. One of the comments includes the following comment from a Homelander urging the world to NOT blame Obama and suggesting that the suicide was a greater form of evil that FATCA:
Little discussion on the Facebook sites. Little pain there. Little anger there. Little empathy there. Little understanding there. By there I mean at the Facebook sites.
It’s clear that the people at IBS have been far more damaged and are far more enlightened than the people on those Facebook sites (which formed far after Isaac Brock).
So, why is that?
Many of the people at IBS attempted to comply with these U.S. laws. They lost their life savings coming into compliance. They had their assets and their lives stolen from them by (1) their mindset that “doing the right thing” equated to “doing the lawful thing” and (2) the “Form people” who guided them to financial ruin. By so doing, those people here provided the education, the experience and in many ways the reasons why things like the “Streamlined Program” (and I am not advocating that either) even exist. In other words, your experiences and willingness to share and assist those who came later, have:
1. Created conditions so that the people on those later Facebook groups don’t have to deal with the threats from the IRS and the warnings from the compliance people. You were alone and they have you (but they obviously neither appreciate nor understand that).
2. Created a large amount of information and advice so that those having their OMG moment can now go to the “Form people” and assess the advice they are receiving. Believe me, the average IBS person knows more than the average professional “Form Person”.
Those of you have been at this since the beginning should be proud of the work you have done. The ONLY serious opposition to FATCA (ADCS lawsuit) is largely supported by this blog. Think of all the “lurkers” who have stopped here to realize they aren’t alone and to get some advice (even if the advice is that there is no “black and white” right answer. The generosity of the few on this blog have provided comfort and education to the many in the wilderness .
To put it another way: the conditions that allow for the complacency on the Facebook groups (meaning better knowledge and understanding) exist because and ONLY because of the people on this blog.
Many of the people here have been so dramatically affected because they “came of age” during the dramatic conditions of the summer of 2011. Remember Trish’s post: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2015/11/24/never-forget-what-happened-in-2011/ where she reminds us of the origins of the anger. It is important that the conduct of the Obama administration is NEVER forgotten .
As painful as this is, it is important to note that those who paid penalties were the ones who “signed up” for the penalty programs. To be sure, it was on the advice of the “Form People”, but entry into compliance was voluntary. Those who haven’t complied are in a far better position than those of you who did comply. That simple fact adds to the pain. But, there it is. I am not aware of single person who has failed to come into U.S. tax compliance who has had any problems in their life. Will FATCA change that? Who knows? But remember that you did what you did because there was no IBS. There was no trusted source of information or a community where you could get help. As some of you have repeated time and time again (@Neil) you would not have done the compliance thing a second time. You did the best you could with the information that had at the time. That’s what you must remember. Entering OVDI or some other method of costly compliance (although life altering) was not a bad decision (you did the best you could at the time). It was a decision that just turned out to not have worked out well. It was a good decision with a bad result. For Americans abroad, compliance is so punitive that it’s hard to see how non-compliance could be worse. For those who entered the programs, I strongly suspect that this experience has completely changed you for life. You will never again equate law and morality.
An interesting exercise might be to consider how this experience has changed you. I bet that in some ways that you are a far better human being than you were before.
A personal observation/ : The posters at IBS include some of the finest human beings that I have ever met ( if I have met you I mean you ) and not met ( @Geroge you (and others) are an incredible human being). You have demonstrated tremendous character and courage.
Speaking of character :
To do a “take” an old ad for Mastercard:
“Character is priceless. For everything else there is Mastercard!”
It’s impossible for any person who has not experienced it to understand it. They never will because they never can. Cut them some slack.
We do not know whether or not J tried to find others and we do not at all whether there have been other suicides or not. We know of this one because his father has reached out and is willing to be vulnerable to additional pain, and so forth. But suicide has a huge stigma, people have a blind spot and explain it away as mental illness, also a stigma. Some (many?) people would do their best to keep it a secret, away from public view.
We cannot make this fit nicely into a box so that we feel better about it.
@2terrified2sleep
Title should say US person… not US Citizenship… we are all in the same sinking boat
@PatCanadian
If it wasn’t for all the web sites u mentioned… I would think I am the only one in this situation…
@badger
I appreciate u are still posting your viewpoint… same as when WhiteKat posts… I don’t care when there are tense opinions… it makes me view things in a different way… we are all in the same boat… with the bird waving at the US… when being a US person was something no one gave a second thought to other then… boy u are luck…. now its… it sucks to be u… everyone tries to hide that shame… no one talks about US person… I know other US persons in my town… they rather tell people they have STDs then admit they are US persons
USCA,
One more time … and how many times have I … thank you for your words of wisdom.
And, I will again, too, say that it is the people of such principle to fight for what they believe in that I have met here (and on a wonderful short trip to Toronto awhile back now) who I have more respect for than just about any in my life of many decades.
The ways it has changed me are significant. I do, one day, want to have the energy to get back to giving back in my own community, in my own country (as a Canadian who is a Canadian, no matter my country of birth). One thing I can no longer do is tolerate the small talk of daily life. I also lost the appreciation of the *ha-ha* of many ordinary things in life. I want those small human qualities back. Looking back, I cannot see much I would do differently in this whole fight, despite the things I might have chosen to do differently in my own personal situation had I known what I do now – through that old hindsight phenomenon.
And, yes, 2t2s, I agree that one of the worst parts is the betrayal we feel — on many fronts — the loss of simple trust.
Thanks to every one of you here for your support through the years! Thanks, Petros, for this platform.
Thank you, 2terrified2sleep. There must be plenty of others just like you here in Canada. Witnesses from Canada are so needed as an integral part of the Canadian litigation, standing alongside our plaintiffs, Gwen and Ginny. They will be given moral support here at Brock and at Sandbox.
I believe most who follow your comment here at Brock will know your strength, George. Thank you, over and over, for your wise contributions and suggestions for the rest of us. Knowing what your path has been in all this has helped many, I know in my gut. I’m so glad you are part of this motley crew! I agree with you — if it were not for IBS, where would each of us be?
@bubblebustin, re;
“..I guess at this point I prefer to rip someone else’s head off, rather than explore the unthinkable. ..”
Me too – and channeling it into the lawsuit and associated efforts here.
And I think that the situation also caused many to fear even saying anything to anyone – in case their confidant should also think that they were ‘tax cheats’ and criminals – since what the US government is doing – now with Canadian and other government collusion is so unthinkable, the reaction amongst the uninformed and unaffected is to blame the victim.
Many of us were and are anonymous, etc. for fear of unwanted attention, exposure and ill informed judgements by those with power to harm us (Banksters, IRS, etc). Our Canadian MPs referred to us as ‘Americans abiding in Canada’, to deny their fiduciary and governmental duty to us as legal Canadian residents and citizens. Some of our fellow Canadians and homeland USPs said we should have known, brought it on ourselves, it wasn’t a big deal, don’t let the door hit you on the way out, etc. That discourages people from reaching out. Particularly if your spouse, family and friends have already reacted badly or with barely concealed disbelief, criticism or lack of interest/understanding – or are simply tired out on the issue.
I’m thinking also about how much people like Markpinetree suffered, and the comments by others who I no longer see here online.
People are reluctant to reach out to other people about a great many problems and sufferings, not only this type – though this is a very unique issue – and as Pacifica pointed out, unlike commonly understood ones like fires, accidents, and other acts of fate or nature. Pacifica, you really explained it so well “… think this is causing suicides, nervous breakdowns and clinical depressions in persons, where other life problems have not done so, because it’s unprecedented and, by its nature, the victims of this are isolated….”.. http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2016/02/06/perhaps-after-reading-this-you-could-suggest-a-title-for-this-post/comment-page-2/#comment-7173577
IBS, Maple Sandbox, JustMe , Lisa, ij, and others told the stories that let us know we were not alone and not paranoid. The online contact helped us form the face to face alliances and relationships that were critical to sharing and amassing critical information and strategies and experiences; helping us to save ourselves as well as helping others and opposing the ongoing injustices as best we can. We never could have gotten this far without each other and the remarkable talents and efforts pooled here.
By the way, you could even prove that the IRS has been willful about the impact of this since at least 2009 because we know exactly when JustMe wrote to him:
First Letter to Commissioner Douglas Shulman-October 18, 2009
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/02/04/letters-to-shulman-or-a-case-study-of-ovdp-communication-attempts-with-the-irs/
And the IRS knows because the TAS knows – from taxpayer contacts, the SAMS submissions https://www.irs.gov/Advocate/Systemic-Advocacy-Management-System-SAMS (now kind of hidden and hard to find via the TAS site) http://www.taxpayeradvocate.irs.gov/about/who-we-are , assisting with OVD cases and probably other avenues like Olson’s information requests to the IRS Commissioners which she used to alert Congress and the problems that the IRS would prefer to hide ex. http://www.taxpayeradvocate.irs.gov/news/taxpayer-advocate-warns-of-pay-to-play-i-r-s-system-the-new-york-times?category=TAS%20in%20the%20News http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/07/business/taxpayer-advocate-warns-of-pay-to-play-irs-system.html?_r=1 .
What is the penalty for a government agency that knowingly harms people so severely and so cavalierly? Especially the ‘benign’ taxpayers that Nina Olson has written about?