I find very little news exciting. Yesterday I shared on Facebook at Citizenship Taxation a Washington Times article reporting that the GOP controlled house was starting impeachment proceedings on IRS Commissioner John Koskinen–this was to say that I hold no idiosyncratic view that the IRS is a criminal organization. Of course I am completely blasé when criminals have turf wars and I am not about to get my hopes up that anything will change: when the war is over, no matter who wins, sociopaths will still be in charge.
Today, my next door neighbour sends me a link to Washington Examiner article which deals with this quarters uptick in reported renunciations. The article embeds a Bloomberg News video which I find all too typical. FATCA cracks down on US tax dodgers who are hiding their assets in foreign banks and they are renouncing because they can no longer “hide their assets overseas outside the Internal Revenue Service”. <sarcasm>Yeah, that’s was what I was doing–I was hiding my assets from the IRS </sarcasm>. The problem is that no one bothers even to do the slightest research into who the renunciants actually are and why they do it. They make assumptions, which if they had even a tiniest intellectual curiosity, they would realize that their sweeping characterizations of people like me and other renunciants are demagogical. But this is the behaviour of sociopaths. Sure if in 2010 they said something like this, they could be excused for their ignorance. But we have informed the US media why we are renouncing and they don’t give damn.
The woman in the red dress asks, “Given all the problems that we have in this country, should we be worried about what 776 people are doing?” Answer, “No we shouldn’t. The problem isn’t people moving overseas; the problem is capital moving overseas.” So the only thing that matters is not people’s lives but money–and more specifically, money moving overseas where it can’t be taxed, and if it can’t be taxed, then people who vote for government entitlements will feel deprived. It doesn’t matter to them who these 776 people are or what drives them to renounce. It only matter to what degree it affects “me, myself and I” (their top three favorite people). This is narcissistic sociopathy at its finest, and it is the US national disease.
While taking our non-USA vacation in August, I met an American woman and shared about it at Citizenship Taxation:
We met a Homelander in Athens a couple of weeks ago, and the conversation was going well until I mentioned the case of accidental Americans living in Canada.
She said that she didn’t like it when people had their babies across the border just so they could be Americans when her Dutch husband had to go the legal route. She said further, that if you are an accidental American caught up in FATCA problems, it is your own damn fault for not keeping abreast of the tax rules. Also, it was your parents’ fault for not keeping track of your citizenship obligations.
I am learning to hate the Homelanders.
Within an hour of starting a conversation with this woman, she had proved herself to be only concerned about herself and her problems and was neither curious nor sympathetic with the concerns of accidental Americans whose lives are being destroyed by the laws that her government is shoving down our throats around the world. She too was afflicted with the national disease of the USA.
If we’re going to give a government human characteristics, I see the US government suffering from bi-polar disorder more than anything else.
“Bipolar Disorder
Mood disorders are conditions that cause people to feel intense, prolonged emotions that negatively affect their mental well-being, physical health, relationships and behaviour. In addition to feelings of depression, someone with bipolar disorder also has episodes of mania. Symptoms of mania may include extreme optimism, euphoria and feelings of grandeur; rapid, racing thoughts and hyperactivity; a decreased need for sleep; increased irritability; impulsiveness and possibly reckless behaviour.”
https://www.cmha.ca/mental-health/understanding-mental-illness/bipolar-disorder/
@Bubblebustin
Perhaps you could explain why you think that and explore examples of bi-polar behaviour.
I am not simply assigning to government human characteristic, I am giving concrete examples of how sociopaths are actually running the government, the media, etc. If enough people display the sociopathic behaviour, I feel justified in designating it the National disease.
I’ll play, but I’m no shrink. What’s the cure?
@Bubblebustin, You got me thinking that the “cure” is the subject of the next post.
But I warn you, I am not optimistic.
Sociopaths, those who lead the country, with a people who for the most part have been programed to think they are and have been very exceptional in all of their and the world’s history. Many of us who have chosen to move away and permanently reside abroad, citizens and taxpayers of other countries, didn’t know what we didn’t know until we were out of the environment part of our human development having grown up and been educated (very poorly as we knew nothing of US CBT or the very altered history of that country) while in the USA.
“The problem isn’t people moving overseas; the problem is capital moving overseas.”
Gosh, I didn’t realize the couple hundred bucks I removed from the US when I moved to Canada 40+ years ago is now having a profound negative effect on the US economy. (Admittedly those were ~1970 dollars and the number in present day dollars might even top US$1000!)
Obviously the problem is one of perspective. I have a problem with any of my entirely Canadian accumulated capital moving “overseas”, i.e. into the US Treasury. If I could simply return those few dollars I that I apparently so grievously removed from the US economy all those years ago and in exchange get them out of my life for good I would consider it a bargain.
When you consider that they are so busy fighting each other down there to the point they actually kill people on a regular basis it isn’t surprising that some of that rage winds up being directed at expats who have escaped the madness for good.
I’m not optimistic, either.
@Petros, Humans by their very nature are narcissistic, some more or less than others. US persons living outside USA, happen to be victims of other narcissists currently, but truth is on average we are just as narcissistic as the ‘homelanders’ and our fellow Canadians (or Australians or whatever your home citizenship happens to be). Witness the refusal of some Brockers to support an out for ‘non-meaningfuls’ because of their fear that that would make their cause (fight for CBT) weaker. We are all selfish, narcissistic creatures who easily see it in others, but rarely see it in ourselves. Regarding a cure, there is none. Human civilization will run its course. Too bad it is taking so long as we are the most destructive being to have ever lived on this planet.
@Maz57
Ed Lazear is playing a bit of a shell game, tying the renunciations into the corporate taxation issue. I suspect however that he’s not all that unsympathetic as he says he supports territorial taxation. I find it a big injustice though, that he’s ignored the fact that these numbers are entirely made up of flesh and blood citizens being forced to renounce their citizenships, not corporations.
@ACanadianLivingInCanada, thanks for your comment.
Yes, narcissism exist everywhere. But the narcissists in Central African Republic, Switzerland, Germany, Cuba, Peru, Australia, or whatever other country are of little concern to us. I am greatly bothered by American sociopaths for a few reasons: (1) They have the most control over the world banking system and can print or otherwise create the world’s reserve currency, and they are using this as a weapon; (2) The USA has the most powerful military and a very large nuclear arsenal; (3) The USA is forcing everyone in the world to prove that they are not US persons in order to have a domestic bank account which the US has defined as “foreign” because it is outside the jurisdiction of the USA; (4) Americans believe that they are the most exceptional, most enlightened, most benevolent people in the world–a beacon on a hill.
These things mean that we do no wrong to focus on how the American society is sociopathic, while not neglecting to see sociopathic behaviour elsewhere.
One of these D.C. Pukes says something with no basis in fact, the next one believes it even though there are no real facts to back it up. Our problem is not the people who want to live in Canada. Our problem is the Marxists who inhabit the offices of the U.S. Government. You could elect a total new house and senate but the unelected fourth unconstitutional Branch of government, the civil service, that stays no matter the party in power. 95% are Marxist and will be the power that brings down the nation, unless we get their power taken away.
They write the regulations, enforce them and put anyone in jail who doesn’t comply. The IRS is chief among these bureaus and unless there is a wooden stake driven thru their heart and buried at high tide by the seashore, we will never be free again.
“These things mean that we do no wrong to focus on how the American society is sociopathic, while not neglecting to see sociopathic behaviour elsewhere. ”
Knock yourself out. Just don’t think that somehow, cause we are not on top of the world, that we are any less sociopathic at our core. We just don’t have the opportunity to show it to the degree that the US does. For example, Canada can’t tell the world to hand over information about Canadians living outside Canada, but apparently we have no problem throwing our own fellow citizens under the bus to save our butts. The first we have no power to do, the second we have the power to do. Its not that we are less sociopathic by nature, just that we are less powerful.
@Petros
It would be good if someone would research renunciants, but it would be very hard to get a representative sample. It’s not like there’s an organization called U.S. Renunciants Abroad to make distributing a survey easy.
Maybe these are just signs of the decline of a civilisation. Michael Moore has made a few films ( I will always remember his words “You are trying to make money off of sick people!!??”) which show abhorrent behaviour and “Inside Job” showed a trend that revealed corruption too. There are people who are trying to voice these opinions but their voices are being drowned out. On the whole I would say that corruption has been on the rise along with the tendency to create an unbridled capitalistic regime since McCarthy got rid of the “commies” and with this, many social benefits for those less fortunate. I am always amazed when Americans tell me they are volunteering to help here and there. Here in Europe we don`t have people volunteering- not because they are heartless, but because the government has created agencies to deal with these situations.
I think the interesting thing to examine is this: why are the governments of Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Switzerland considered less corrupt than any others in the world? What are they doing differently to have people in power who are actually representing their citizens to their satisfaction? Because somehow, these governments – imho – have not been bought. How did this NOT happen?
@Bubblebustin. Yes, the video wandered off topic by conflating individual and corporate taxes. The big corporations avoid US tax on their foreign profits simply by not repatriating the cash (a practice which is not only legal. but is a perfectly logical result of the US tax code). Corporations have no need to “renounce” in order to avoid US tax on non-US profits.
Expats, on the other hand, have no choice but renunciation to avoid exposure to US tax on their non-US (i.e., home country) income. And as we all know only too well, it is not so much the actual tax (I believe only about 6% of expats actually owe anything) but the ridiculous reporting and control that goes along with it. I’ll bet those big companies aren’t being told what they can and can’t invest in overseas.
So the headline is misleading and basically out to lunch; most people aren’t renouncing over taxes because most don’t owe any tax. People are renouncing because they are sick and tired of being punished simply because they are expats. A modern day US government trait seems to be that the more something obviously doesn’t work, the more resources they pour into trying to make it work. CBT didn’t work before FATCA and it won’t work post FATCA, either.
I’m not optimistic they will switch to territorial taxation in our lifetimes. They operate on blind ideology down there, not common sense.
@Publius wrote: “It would be good if someone would research renunciants, but it would be very hard to get a representative sample. It’s not like there’s an organization called U.S. Renunciants Abroad to make distributing a survey easy.”
I know a fair number of people who have given up their US citizenship and a few I have even coached–as one who gone before and had understood the rules. I have also talked to dozens who have been either too afraid to renounce or could not because they wished to retain their right to access the USA. I think I have a good sense of the people on the list who are not famous, like Jet Li (my personal favourite), Tina Turner, Eduardo Saverin and Superman.
One could suggest that a laws should carve out significant exceptions so that it doesn’t create so many victims. But the fact of the matter is that the sociopaths in DC find it easier to call us myths or tax cheats. So either we do not exist or we deserve what we get. Either way, we cannot win because the sociopaths do not give damn about us. They have no empathy for their victims.
@Petros. “Either way, we cannot win because the sociopaths do not give damn about us. They have no empathy for their victims.”
That is clearly the bottom line and that is why there has been no progress nor is any likely towards fixing this injustice.
The basic fact that the US government and homelanders do not care even minutely about expats is the underlying assumption that anyone who is trying to decide what to do personally about their US tax situation must take into account when planning their course of action. Pay our “fair share” my ass. There is absolutely nothing owing to those who would knowingly and willing destroy us financially.
“It would be good if someone would research renunciants, but it would be very hard to get a representative sample.”
Too bad the Federal Register’s Honour Roll doesn’t list this crucial information.
‘This quarter’s renunciants:
1. J. Doe, total US tax owed for the past 5 years $0.00
2. M. Roe, total US tax owed for the past 5 years $0.00
…
627. S. Quo, total US tax owed for the past 5 years $0.00
628. R. Moe, total US tax owed for the past 5 years $311.29, penalties $85,000
629. Q. Doe, total US tax owed for the past 5 years $0.00
…
1,364. N. Loe, total US tax owed for the past 5 years $0.00
1,365. X. Poe, total US tax owed for the past 5 years $3,831,240.97, penalties $86,000
1,366. U. Noe, total US tax owed for the past 5 years $0.00
…
1,781. Z. Zoe, total US tax owed for the past 5 years $0.00’
Maybe the same fraction of homelanders would stop putting us all in the same boat.
“I hold no idiosyncratic view that the IRS is a criminal organization.”
Victims of Monica Hernandez do. Well we don’t start out that way, but we learn gradually.
@maz “the more something obviously doesn’t work, the more resources they pour into trying to make it work.”
In this case, vast resources of foreign governments and banks go down the same drain too.
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Re;
““The problem isn’t people moving overseas; the problem is capital moving overseas.” ”
Yeah. When I fled the US as a toddler, and moved my capital ‘overseas’ to Canada, I guess I should have registered the US origin contents of my US citizen nappy with FINCEN and filled a 1040 with it.
You didn’t have to file a 1040 because your income was low, but you had to make your mark on a FINCEN form. Born this year, put a mark on a FINCEN form next year, no nappy needed.
@Norman Diamond
Yes, that’s the problem: the government agencies could put together the data but they don’t do it. If the numbers really were bad, if it was all newly-minted Harvard MBAs or experienced venture capitalists heading out to Singapore, I am sure that someone would be publicizing that, either the government or the Republicans. It seems like its been a long time since anyone remotely notable was in the public spotlight as a renunciant. In the absence of real data, the way people see renunciants is just a big Rohrschach test.
@Maz57
They always mix up the two! I think it is because individuals and corporations are both U.S. persons, but while all people may be equal some U.S. persons are definitely more equal than others in the U.S. tax code.
@Shovel
And more trees die to produce the paper that gets wasted trying to rationalize it. Its defenders see citizenship taxation as the solution, without considering carefully enough what the problem really was or is.
@Petros
I am sure that you know lots of decent people who have renounced. It is just coming up with the kind of data that are strong enough to get a really stubborn person to rethink their strongly held position.