If clicking on a link brings you to the wrong page of the comment thread, CLICK HERE to get to its current page.
UPDATE December 23, 2017: Please see the following post for the latest information: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2017/12/15/un-human-rights-complaint-quadruples-its-signatures/
UPDATE November 28, 2017:
Also, see MuzzledNoMore’s updated post, United Nations Human Rights Complaint: Seeking Advice and Additional Signatures
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UPDATE November 23, 2017:
UN Complaint Final July 29 2014 – updated links November 23 2017
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UPDATE JANUARY 10, 2017:
From MuzzledNoMore:
Just letting everybody know that we’re still waiting to hear from the UN about the status of our Complaint. With any luck we’ll have the matter taken care of within the next few months by the new Republican administration in Washington. Who knows? Maybe the UN is watching and waiting to see what happens as well. In any regard, the UN has informed us that it can take up to three years for a Complaint to reach the stage at which it will be considered or rejected.
If a “domestic” solution is possible, there will be no need for the UN to address the issue. When we filed the Complaint nearly two and a half years ago we could never have believed that repealing FATCA and switching to residence-based taxation would have made it to the 2016 Republican Party Platform. Now it remains to be seen if the party will follow through with its promises.
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UPDATE MAY 21, 2015:
Today we received official confirmation from the United Nations Human Rights Council that our Complaint has been received and is in the queue pending approval (or not) for admittance into one of the Working Groups. The next session of the Working Group on Communications is scheduled from 17 to 21 August 2015. Further information will be shared with us after that date.
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UPDATE NOVEMBER 6, 2014:
From MuzzledNoMore:
We have finally received confirmation that our Human Rights Complaint against the United States has been received by the United Nations. This is great news! But let’s not pop champagne corks just yet. There is no indication that the Complaint has been read or considered for acceptance into the complaints process in any way. That is all yet to come. But we have made a huge step forward! That deserves a few cheers all round … even without the bubbly!
UPDATE OCTOBER 27, 2014:
Permission has been given a university researcher to access to our UN Human Rights Complaint to analyze ethical assumptions on FATCA. That access will be used for academic purposes, content not to be released (as the UN has not yet acknowledged receipt of this UN Human Rights Complaint).
We view as a significant step that this document will be studied for moral dimensions and ethics. We continue to anticipate the time we will be able to publicly release contents of the Complaint, likely AFTER the next scheduled meeting to review such complaints, sometime in April 2015.
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UPDATE SEPTEMBER 10, 2014:
“JC” commented, and he’s right:
Whenever that text for the human rights complaint comes out that, I believe, will be a big help at raising awareness.
The text of the Human Rights Complaint will be published when we know the UN has received and considered it. There has been no confirmation that our submission was considered for the meeting in August (…our submission was sent just before the August meeting so, just by number of other submissions received before ours, our Human Rights Complaint may not have been considered in the time allotted). It looks like the next UN meeting to consider Human Rights Complaints is scheduled for April of 2015 — that Committee meets twice a year.
In the meantime, our fundraising must be pinned to its stand-alone legal claim and importance which absolutely addresses our human rights issues.
Donate Now: http://adcs-adsc.ca/
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August 7, 2014 UPDATE:
The Human Rights Complaint has been submitted. Thank you to those who worked on the document and made this happen. A very special thank you to all who came forward to put your names on this important document. We had a total of 41 signers, representing the countries of Canada, Germany, Japan, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Denmark, Estonia, Switzerland and Belgium.
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August 5, 2014 UPDATE:
Note: there is a confidentiality clause in the document that your name / nationality / country be kept confidential. My name and address will be the only one that might not be confidential. I wanted to share with you two notes waiting for me this morning:
Hi Carol,
I am very disappointed that more people did not come forward and sign this document, I do not understand why people are afraid to speak up for what they believe. People are so afraid of the bully acts of the USA, We must stand together, I am asking all people that the US government deem US citizens to step forward and stand up against the US and the Harper government for allowing FATCA into the Canadian banking system.
I am not on facebook or twitter. I give you permission to post this.
Disappointed
XXX
Hi Carol,
I am surprised that so few people have signed. This makes me uneasy. People must be frightened. Do you expect repercussions against the signers? At the moment I don’t have the strength to deal with any more troubles. Would you please put a hold on my name until I can evaluate your assessment of possible repercussions.
Thank you,
YYYY
I answered YYYY:
Absolutely. I can take your name off the list of signers if you are not comfortable with that — you must be OK with your decision. We will probably be sending the Complaint on Thursday, August 7th .
No, we don’t expect any repercussions against any of the signers. We will ask for confidentiality in one of the clauses.
As with everything else of this with this (persons on blogs, getting together for protest, etc.), people are afraid to step forward. The US weapon toward its people always is FEAR. That is what we see here. That is our biggest obstacle and what may defeat us in the end.
Dr. Stephen Kish, Chair of the Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty signs his name on behalf of the millions of *US Persons* Abroad who are afraid to sign.
Thanks, YYYY.
FEAR: the most effective tool the USA has at its disposal is at work in all we see regarding US Persons Abroad coming forward in unison to fight the good fight. If anything defeats us, it will be our FEAR.
As you all know, I fear too for my son’s name to be out there as it is my duty as a parent to protect his best interests. Because of my own fear, I went through all the complex back US tax filings through use of professionals in the US compliance industry. That was my choice as I could absolutely not do it myself and I so wanted this behind me, to stop the leak of my hard-earned retirement funds to be passed to the US IRS. I’m still in this game. I replied to a commenter at Isaac Brock yesterday and Stephen Kish picked part of what I said to update the ADCS-ADSC Charter Challenge post yesterday:
UPDATE August 5, 2014 (http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/06/01/its-time/)
Carol, an ADCS-ADSC Board Director, explains why she donated to this lawsuit:
The purpose of the lawsuit, to me, is to stop the obscene injustice of all of this, regain rights waived by the Canadian government’s implementation of the US FATCA IGA, thereby putting the financial institutions before individuals and families who are being criminalized!
I’m in for that just as I’m on this blog, hoping people learn from all of the stupid mistakes I made along the way — I don’t want others to make those same mistakes.
It’s about people getting their lives back, along with their dignity and their mental and physical health and to stop the the handing over to the US a good portion of what they’ve saved for their retirements.
It is about wanting Canada to remain a sovereign country, not taken over by the USA. It’s about what I think is right and not wanting to silently stand by and let this happen. It’s because I believe in free speech and don’t want to be shamed into not speaking out, at this point especially for other families who have a family member with some developmental disability or some other ‘mental incapacity’.
My update for now and my regards to all,
August 2, 2014 UPDATE:
Thank you very much for everyone who has corresponded to me at calgaryfouroneone@gmail.com to request the password and give permission for your signatures to be added. Your supportive emails are wonderful.
He is what we have for signers to the Human Rights Document:
18 – Canada
2 – UK
1 – Australia
1 – Belgium (US/Dutch Citizen)
1 – Denmark
1 – Germany
1 – Japan
1 – Switzerland
Note that one of the Canadian signers is Dr. Stephen Kish (Canadian, US)–signing personally, and on behalf of the “Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty” Board of Directors, and the millions of U.S. persons living abroad who are too frightened to sign this document.
Also waiting to hear back from 4 in Canada (one from Quebec) and one from New Zealand.
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July 30, 2014 UPDATE:
Here is the FINAL Human Rights Complaint, available to those that are considering signing. To access the password for this document, contact and request from calgaryfouroneone@gmail.com.
Each person sending a request will receive a copy from calgary411 “in Confidence” with the CLEAR understanding that it is NOT to be published. For anyone who wants to have another person read/sign the document, that other person also needs to obtain it through the Isaac Brock Society or Maple Sandbox channels. Signatures will only be accepted from those who have gotten the document through calgary411. This stipulation is necessary to keep some lid on the proliferation of this information.
We will announce when we know the timing for the agency committee looking at this document for review. We will update on this post any feedback from the agency as it is received.
This document is the collaboration of contributors to both blogs and took over a month to write, discuss and edit in consensus with a group of 15 who have vetted and approved it in its entirety. It stands as presented to them. Bloggers can have their say but there will be no further changes to the document. It is what the agency says that matters.
Sign if you are in agreement and can do so by providing to calgaryfouroneone@gmail.com your name and your nationality and/or country of residence. The Human Rights Complaint will be submitted electronically. Submitters’ names and nationalities will be typed onto the lines provided on page 1. No physical signature is required.
If you are not comfortable with the document, you do not have to sign.
TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE.
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Two dedicated individuals who participate at both the Isaac Brock Society and the Maple Sandbox blogs have prepared a comprehensive Human Rights Complaint that will be submitted on behalf of all *US Persons Abroad* the world over. Others offered suggestions on how that information should best be presented in the constraint of number of pages allowed for the Complaint. We appreciate the legal eye and suggestions for going forward with this Complaint from Professor Allison Christians.
The document now complete, I have been asked to post an announcement on their behalf. Unfortunately, because of their personal situations, they cannot lend their names to the document and this will be the end of Phase I, produced for all of us, with their great care.
I so appreciate the incredible work that has gone into this on behalf of all of us. Here is what they say:
A group of writers from the Isaac Brock Society and Maple Sandbox blogs has prepared a document that challenges citizenship-based taxation (CBT) as a violation of internationally recognized human rights. This document will be submitted as a formal complaint to a major international human rights organization within the next ten days.
Any readers who would like to support this effort by “co-signing” (having their names added to the list of those filing the complaint) should so indicate by sending an email to: calgaryfouroneone@gmail.com.
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The Canadian writers of the complaint hope to make this a truly international effort. Bloggers from all over the world are welcome to lend their names to this historic document. Signers do not have to be US Persons.****************
Signers should feel comfortable with using their own names (pseudonyms are unacceptable in this instance) and should provide their nationality and/or country of residence as well.
I think I will probably hold off on signing for now. As others have noted–it is hard to feel good about signing a document I am not able to read. Also, as I’ve discussed in the past, I tend to prefer that international complaints regarding human rights violations focus on the enforcement of CBT internationally–which both the US government and the Canadian government (among others), as collaborator, are guilty of. I believe the correct forum for challenging CBT itself–as opposed to its unworkable enforcement internationally–is domestically in the US.
That said–if I saw the document I might well feel quite comfortable signing it.
@calgary411: Thanks for your great efforts. I have sent you an email with related information. Surgite!
@Dash, perhaps as a US resident dual citizen enjoying direct benefits, you would be best placed to explain your opposition to CBT from that perspective, and to develop a petition with matching terms of reference.
An alternative would be to wait for the terms of this complaint to be published, and then to send letters of support for it to the body hearing the complaint, as well as to your Senator, Congressperson and your President.
@dash1729
CBT abuses its victims on a global basis. I agree with you that getting the US to end the “peculiar institution” of citizenship based taxation can only be accomplished inside the US. However, if a major international human rights organization like the UN or Council of Europe condemns CBT as an abuse (which I think they will) the organization’s member countries will be less willing to help the US enforce it. Moreover, the arguments within the US to bring an end CBT will be strengthened.
I believe launching coordinated legal challenges in as many jurisdictions and international organization bodies as possible is the best way to attack the problem. Up to now the US has faced virtually zero pushback, and like all bullies, the US will continue to beat up on its victims until it gets a few good slaps across the face. And those slaps need to come from as many places as possible, both inside and outside the US.
On a related topic, I hope the complaint mentions the fact that according to a recent US federal court decision, Americans abroad have no right to US constitutional protections. Therefore, there is now absolutely zero legal or moral arguments the US can make to justify levying an income tax on US persons living “outside the homeland” in order to pay for public goods and services consumed only by the citizens and residents living “inside the homeland.”
@Jim, @IBS Maybe we need a business track to this website. & to include how the US wants to negate the Canadian tax break on capital gains for selling a small businesses.
Why is this Human Rights Complaint important? This could be answered here. At the risk of being a few years behind the authors, I’ll provide some thoughts:
1) In terms of argument, convincing, and winning over others to the view that CBT is unjust, this complaint may be quite a significant lever in ‘unsettling’ a preconceived position on CBT – such as CBT is ok as those in the US should pay tax on “foreign” income – and causing persons to reconsider their position. This is exactly what good sales people try to do all the time with those who are reluctant buyers.
2) For decades American presidents and the U.S. have spoken out against the abuses of ‘human rights’ by other countries such as Russia, Iran, China in terms of Tibet, etc. Now to have a claim come back against the US and its abuse of human rights on its own citizens could gain extra attention and resonance and support the questioning of CBT and FATCA. It will be a new news story and it will attract a different set of journalists who may have difficulty in figuring out FATCA and anything to do with tax and tax forms.
One current news trend in the U.S. is – ill conceived US government regulations causing harm, such as Obamacare – and this may just fit in nicely with that of how FATCA amplifies the already unjust treatment of CBT on Americans abroad – and that it is all ill conceived.
3) May help bring greater legitimacy in Washington,Ottawa, London, Canberra, Wellington and other governments in terms of the wrongs of CBT, and their lack of looking out for the rights of their citizens and residents in the tax treaties. Especially so, if the human rights organisation(s) then also puts its name to the claim of human rights abuse.
@Dash1729. One objective is to get Washington to change their tax policy. Another is to get the Canadian government and others to change their tax treaty to actually prevent double taxation in a comprehensive way.
We might spell out some human rights abuses. Some areas I would like to draw attention to: Planning for the family in terms of saving for retirement, financial planning, and estate planing all are made much more complex and nearly impossible with CBT – with the best vehicles for this in either country getting negated by the other – kind of stopping such planning in its tracks.
Let’s take the case of if the American is the family bread winner (who has worked in the nonUS country for many years), then they suddenly die unexpectedly. Because the marital exemption does not apply to nonUS citizen then all the assets including family home, life insurance payout, pension gets assessed and with something like a $650k exemption everything else above this is to be taxed at 40% unless put into a QDOT trust with an American financial institution, then the surviving spouse may live off of the income (while filing US returns for the QDOT and paying any US tax every year) and have any principal disbursements get taxed at 40%, and then 40% tax on the value of the QDOT when the surviving spouse dies (one big problem here is that US financial institutions do not want to deal with US citizens abroad and one may think they would be less eager to deal with nonUS citizens).
According to the estate formulas debt on any assets is not a consideration – so there could be a forced sale of the family home to pay the tax and meet the requirements. Not very nice for the surviving spouse. Also, if a home is owned 50/50 then there is burden of proof that the nonbreadwinning spouse has contributed half of the investment, else the whole house may be considered owned by the deceased US person. More regulation and compliance! The family home could be put into a QDOT but then the surviving spouse would have to pay market rent out of the QDOT to live in the family home. Imagine the fees involved with all this, and a nice way to quadruple complex everything for the surviving spouse.
So in the case of a sudden death of the USP breadwinner all the assets meant to assist the surviving family, such as pension, life insurance, family home etc, get upended and ripped away. While if it happens to the nonUSP family next door all those safeguards come into play without having to deal with the IRS. What freedom!
May it be included in the human rights complaint the US cookie cutter tax agreements with other nations that very much have a narrow definition of “preventing taxation” that only applies for each little tax, so that the actual tax paid is no greater than the highest of each country, negating any/the best tax breaks of either country such as retirement accounts; and leaving open any new tax the US may dream up such as Obamacare tax on investments that the host country may not have and thus comes in on top of everything.
Thus these host nations have consented to the human rights abuse of their citizens and residents who happen to be USP.
There needs to be cookie cutter exclusions in these tax agreements for the family home, life insurance payouts, retirement funds, mutual funds, and generous exemptions for surviving spouse and family.
Should also be included in the Human Rights Complaint: the regulatory/compliance burden inflicted upon USP abroad – massive hours and expense – far more than if the USP just lives in the US. This compliance should also be considered a “tax.” There are lots of stories of those who spent many hours on compliance and have to spend considerable amounts on tax advice all to even show that they don’t owe anything to the US. The U.S. seems to assume that those USP living abroad are in themselves businesses with formidable accounting and tax advice resources at their disposal.
I have not fully developed this one yet: there is abuse to getting investment taxed based on the currency of another country (the US). One might have a loss in their own country but have to pay a gain in the US just based on currency fluctuations – and if they are really going to live in that overseas country long time this is unjust.
To the powers that be at IBS please consider the above. While you might not out the letter until it is delivered you might bring in some arguments here for comment. It would be beneficial for the bloggers to know why the complaint is important and some of the main themes. Or, maybe you have all this planned as well.
Overall a fantastic initiative!
@FromTheWilderness re: Americans abroad have no right to US constitutional protections. I believe that was quite narrow. That is not what is said in the Constitution as there is no distinction of where Americans may live. However, it is yet another instance of US government discrimination against Americans living abroad. It may be useful to claim the inalienable rights of Americans to liberty and the pursuit of happiness – and point out how this is unevenly applied compared to those living in the US and Abroad.
@JC
In case you didn’t see this:
http://www.thewestwire.com/constitutional-rights-dont-apply-overseas/
https://www.aclu.org/national-security/court-dismisses-aclu-suit-behalf-us-citizen-abused-fbi-abroad
Nigel Green compares FATCA to Communism
Perhaps this can be used for a business track, if not in the Human Rights Complaint, elsewhere:
@FromTheWilderness
violations of constitutional rights within matters of so-called “national security,” are exempt from judicial reconciliation. So “national security” reasons perhaps with particulars to the case.
@badger
Good point–perhaps those of us stateside need to put together some similar type of petition from the US perspective.
@All
Question for all of you: is the USA the only one guilty of a human rights abuse here or is the Canadian government also guilty? Does Harper’s behavior in facilitating FATCA in Canada rise to the level of a human rights abuse or will you hold your nose and give him a free ride when it comes to human rights challenges?
The US also tries to claim that the ICCPR does not require them to guarantee rights to citizens who are under their jurisdiction but outside of their territory.
http://www.refworld.org/publisher,HRC,,USA,47bbf3662,0.html
The UN Human Rights Committee has rebuked them for this position but never taken serious action
http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/gencomm/hrcom31.html
And of course, for US domestic law purposes this doesn’t matter anyway because Congress never passed any implementing legislation for the ICCPR.
@All
You see it seems to me that there is another abuse going on here that people haven’t talked about all that much. Because of the IGA, Canadians considered to be “US persons” will need to share much more information with the CRA than they previously would have–as the data will flow from FFI to CRA to IRS. I believe the data involved is much more than a typical Canadian-only citizen would have to share in filing a Canadian tax return. Even if the IRS ends up doing nothing how do you know the CRA won’t use this data to illegally harass Canadian citizens?
@Dash1729
Further, through FATCA (and the IGA) Canadians deemed “US Persons” (and any other “USP” found by any other FFI in any other country with an IGA or agreement with a specific FFI) will be required to share much more financial information with the IRS than any USP living inside the borders of the USA! Now there’s the rub!!!!!
@Dash1729
Badger, myself and other have brought this point up several times, and Professor Cockfield also brought it up when he testified before Canada’s Standing Committee on Finance, referring to it as “unprecedented”. My guess is that it will be included in the ADCS lawsuit.
@Dash1729
RE: is the USA the only one guilty of a human rights abuse here or is the Canadian government also guilty?
It depends on the nature of the claim. The claim will be about US CBT.
The Canadian-US tax treaty covers all aspects of taxation between the two countries, and it does not challenge CBT, or have exemptions for life insurance, retirement funds, the family home, estate, or any new taxes such as Obamacare on investments etc. – and the Canadian government signed this, then it does appear to me that the Canadian government has consented to US CBT and is complicit as well in any human rights violations.
@bubblebustin
Glad to hear this point is being addressed.
“…. then it does appear to me that the Canadian government has consented to US CBT and is complicit as well in any human rights violations.”
Every country that signed a tax treaty with the US containing a saving clause is guilty of complicity.
No doubt it could be arranged to sit and read the document on paper and sign it in the comfort of a home.
It isn’t possible to sign a paper that is not there.
I hope they get past those logistics and can do what is important.
Thank you, everyone, for your comments here and we ask for your patience. The group of writers is working on a way of sharing the document with prospective “signers” without falling afoul of any legal constraints regarding the submission. We respect all your concerns and are acting to accommodate them as best we can. A workable solution will be available in an update very soon.
In response to Mark Twain, the complaint will be submitted electronically. Submitters’ names and nationalities will be typed onto the lines provided on p. 1. No physical signature is required.
Today’s update to this post is complete with a link to the Human Rights Complaint PASSWORD-PROTECTED PDF. Instructions for accessing the password is in the post.
Thanks for your patience!
@Calgary411
Well done to you and the organizers for this update; I think this is a reasonable and appropriate way to deal with the concerns several of us expressed earlier on this thread, concerning the ability of potential signers to read what they might be signing before committing to doing so.
I don’t know if I want to see the “Final” draft until it is out. I am posting a lot lately, so don’t want to ‘spill the beans.’ Well it is “final” anyway. I did see this: “Open letter to Canadian Bankers Association RE: FATCA, November 2013 – under “Press Releases” on the sidebar to the right. I may say that I am very impressed with this in terms of the argument, research, and support for the arguments. I may only imagine that the “final” claim will be equally or more impressive. One little picky comment, is that if this came from a corporate entity then they would have their logo(s) as the top. IBS and MS don’t really have logos, yet there are certain fonts and colours as on the websites and a variation with these may be tried. It appears an IBS colour is a blue not red.
The open letter to CBA Re FATCA November 2013 doesn’t have a logo, but it’s not completely without “branding,” as the letter is on Brock-Sandbox letterhead, as used in other release/s, and the letterhead is the same font and colour (red) used on the Brock and Maple Sandbox business cards. To keep our names/urls in the reader’s eye, “isaacbrocksociety.ca – maplesandbox.ca” (same font, same colour) is centred in the footer of every page, except the first page, as that page contained the letterhead/url at top.
In addition to this human rights complaint submission, here’s another action to be aware of (it may have been posted before – – I don’t see a date on this petition):
https://www.abolishfatca.com/live/
Thank you, Schubert. As one of this blog’s most eloquent contributors your reading of the Complaint would be greatly valued. We’d love to be able to add your name to the submitters’ list. At the very least we would be delighted if you would mention this initiative to others. Thank you again for your understanding.