Northernstar emailed Justin Trudeau in July 2013 regarding her concerns about FATCA. Today she received the following email in response:
Thank you for taking the time to write to me with your concerns regarding the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA).
Despite its good intentions, the unfortunate consequence of FATCA is that Americans who hold dual citizenship still fall under its authority, and it requires access to their financial information through their banks. As a result of FATCA, there has been a surge in US citizenship renunciations over the past few years, and this trend continues to grow.
I share your concerns about personal privacy, an issue that is increasingly important to all Canadians. The Conservative government’s efforts to protect the personal privacy of Canadians have been inadequate. The implications of having Canadian banks report directly to a foreign government agency are troublesome. The Liberal Party of Canada will continue to press the government on this issue, and demand a closer examination of FATCA’s effects.
Thank you once again for writing to me and taking the time to share your concerns with me. It is through such exchanges of ideas and opinions that I can best represent not only my constituents, but all Canadians.
Justin P. J. Trudeau
Member of Parliament for Papineau
Leader of the Liberal Party of Canada
Offline, a friend of Isaac Brock Society says:
It is one thing for the USA to say to individuals across the planet: if you have status under our law you must follow all of our laws no matter where you are. It is another thing entirely for Canada as a nation to voluntarily, with no compensation except the conditional promise of removal of a threat of economic sanctions, assist the United States in globally rounding people up to force them to comply with its patently untenable and unjustifiable position. Such assistance fundamentally conflicts with a universally recognized (and far more just) jurisdictional claim based on actual residence, which Canada practices along with the rest of the world.
Oh brother! He’s telling US their has been a surge in U.S. renunciations. Sort of a backward way there of saying “If you want out of it, renounce. I just tweeted him that Eritrea wasn’t allowed to get away with that here.
Everyone of you who is excited about Justin Trudeau, does he seem particularly intelligent to you? Basically he’s saying that citizens of Canada who are resident of Canada fall under the authority of the United States if they happen to have dual citizenship, as defined by the United States and administered by its neanderthal bureaucracy.
Why have a prime minister at all then? Why don’t we just simply have Obama appoint the governor general of Canada, and give to him all the keys to the Dominion?
I think this question is above his pay grade. At very least, the Prime Minister hasn’t said anything stupid.
Duals fall under US authority? The sad truth is nearly all citizens of the world now fall under “US Authority”. This is because when the US tells most world governments to jump, they ask “how high?”. NZ can’t seem to hand over its sovereignty to the US fast enough. FATCA, TPPA, illegal FBI raids on NZ soil backed by the NZ government, off shore drilling, fracking and mining of our pristine country handed over to US corps, the list grows. I can’t wait to get my CLN in hand, but at the rate things are going it seems we’ll all be considered “US Persons” anyway. Oh well 🙁
What a useless response. He obviously doesn’t believe in the sovereignty of the country that he wants to lead. The fact that you may have citizens residing in another country does not give your laws application in the other country of residence. What a lightweight this guy is. He isn’t very deep intellectually.
I put this on another post but here is my reply to him. It is a second. The first was an very emotional one..
Dear Mr. Trudeau
I wish to also add this to my reply to your email I sent to you last July. Allison Christians gave me permission to use some of her words. My words are the last paragraph.
“It is one thing for the USA to say to individuals across the planet: if you have status under our law you must follow all of our laws no matter where you are. It is another thing entirely for Canada as a nation to voluntarily, with no compensation except the conditional promise of removal of a threat of economic sanctions, assist the United States in globally rounding people up to force them to comply with its patently untenable and unjustifiable position. Such assistance fundamentally conflicts with a universally recognized (and far more just) jurisdictional claim based on actual residence, which Canada practices along with the rest of the world.
And remember that many people in Canada have dual citizenship…There are many dual citizenship Canadians from countries all over the world. What will you do when China wants the same thing the USA wants Canada to do for their citizens? or Russia or North Korea, or Syria, or Eritrea? “
@Petros, I find it hard to believe that either Marc Garneau or Martha Hall-Findlay would have written anything so mind-mindbogglingly stupid.
To reiterate: I am not an American who holds dual citizenship, I am a CANADIAN who holds dual citizenship (for now).
Brother Justin should go to Colorado and smoke some legal stuff. That email is total non-sense and devalues Canadian citizenship and equality in return for legal discrimination.
Is that the society you want to live in? Canada might as well become the 51st state as they say.
i just sent the below to justin…..not that it will change much but it sure made me feel good hitting the send button
I read with much dismay your comments on the issac brock society website (http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/01/29/thank-you-elizabeth-may-justin-trudeau-listen-up/ ) and (http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/01/29/jt-says-duals-fall-under-usa-authority/comment-page-1/#comment-1048704 )
Justin I took out my canadian citizenship in 1980. I have a certificate that says “Certificate of Canadian Citizenship” on it. I have lived, worked and paid taxes here since 1980.
Does my being born in America make me any less a canadian than someone born here? Is the gov’t of Canada not going to protect my rights as a canadian because I am a “dual” citizen?
Can you please explain to me how “Despite its good intentions, the unfortunate consequence of FATCA is that Americans who hold dual citizenship still fall under its authority” Canada can let another country come and force canadian companies to give up information on canadian citizens simply based on their nationality.
What happened to or when did our charter of rights get changed to allow discrimination against one nationality? I must have been asleep at that 6 p.m. news report then.
The 2015 election year for me has come down to a one issue election. I and as many people who I know that are affected by this fatca thing will be voting for the party that has enough balls to stand up to the bully to the south and say enough is enough. You are not getting any information on any canadian citizen period case closed.
I am a canadian citizen and I expect when I am on canadian soil to be protected to the fullest extent under the charter of rights of Canada and not have those rights undermined by a foreign gov’t nor to have my financial institution discriminate against me due to national origin.
quote Liberal MP Ralph Goodale’s words back to Justin. Goodale is the Deputy Leader.
‘Fighting The “Long Arm” Of The U.S. Tax-Man
Posted on October 11, 2011
“….There may be one topic upon which all Members of Parliament in all political parties can agree – i.e., the United States should not try to enforce its tax laws against law-abiding Canadians!…………………..
people receiving these threats are often former UScitizens or dual citizens or the children of former American citizens. ……… They have abided by all relevant Canadian laws and naturally assumed that was both sufficient and appropriate.
……….. we have elaborate treaties with other countries, including the United States, on taxation issues.
……..Maybe it’s because the US is in such bad economic shape that it’s trying to grab every nickel of offshore revenue it can find. …. so they seem to be groping for money outside their borders to ease their horrendous deficits.
…….But the Americans go way too far when they start harassing Canadians, even to the point of asking Canadian banks to seize assets like RRSPs to compensate theUSfor the alleged tax liabilities of certain customers…….
“….”Our government must stand shoulder-to-shoulder with innocent citizens and taxpayers – to inform and assist them in fending-off abusive American tax enforcement proceedings.”
I took your suggestion and did this as my 3rd reply
Hope he gets to it before the budget day.
I’ll put a comment at this thread as well — my earlier today email to JT.
Speaking of reciprocity, etc., I’ve just gotten a few things off my chest: a compilation of comments at Brock — in answer to my now daily email from the Liberal Party (since getting my free ticket for the Justin Trudeau ‘meet and greet’ that ‘disgusted’ and I attended last Wednesday:
Friends; I am shaking my head in disbelief. Here are some things to blast back to him;
The Master Nationality Act;
“Commonly known as the “Master Nationality Rule”, the practical effect of this
Article is that where a person is a national of, for example, two States (A and B), and
is in the territory of State A, then State B has no right to claim that person as its
national or to intervene on that person’s behalf. ”
US State Department 7 Fam 080
“When a U.S. citizen is in the other country of their dual nationality, that country has a predominant claim on the person.”
AND the clincher;
“It is a generally recognized rule, often regarded as a rule of international law,
that when a person who is a dual national is residing in either of the countries
of nationality, the person owes paramount allegiance to that country, and that
country has the right to assert its claim without interference from the other
Remember your US Nationality is “clinging nationality” because of the impediments placed which makes it difficult to renounce in violation of the Expatriation Act 1868.
You are not a Dual US/Canada.
You are a Canadian Citizen who happens to have “clinging nationality” with the US. I have noticed now in multiple pubs this term of clinging nationality where it is difficult or impossible to get rid of a nationality.
Notice that Trudeau says:
That’s a Model 2 agreement. In all likelihood, Canada is negotiating a Model 1 agreement (banks report to Canadian government, CG reports to USG), like the vast majority of FATCA signatories to date. Does this mean he is fine with a Model 1 IGA? Or, does it mean that he’s clueless about the different types of agreements? Or, something else?
Excuse my language, but WTF?
People, these politicians have lost the plot.
Why did the US come up with IGA in the first place? They came up with it because FATCA is ILLEGAL in most countries.
Privacy and a whole host of other laws have to be shredded because of demands.
If FATCA is so good and legal, screw any IGA agreements and see what happens. An IGA should be unnecessary.
@tdott or @all perhaps a dumb question but in response to
“In all likelihood, Canada is negotiating a Model 1 agreement (banks report to Canadian government, CG reports to USG), ” if this were the case why can we not just tell the banks we are canadian, show our “certificate of canadian citizenship” and be assured we will not be discriminated against for national origin under the charter of rights?
or is this argument making this issue to simple???
What a brainless asshole!
What this means is that good old Justin thinks that the citizens of a nation are the property of that nation no matter where they may be in the world.
Let the word go out to all Canadians that Justin Trudeau believes that Canadian citizens are the property of the Government of Canada!
I would be curious to know whether he personally wrote that moronic letter or whether it was written by some other member of the Liberal party.
Justin has demonstrated that his primary value is “entertainment value”. Good thing his father is not alive to see this!
I’ll say it again.
What a brainless asshole!
@mettleman, in my country when you open a financial account you are asked what is your citizenship.
I answer that question based on the passport that I used to enter the country.
If someone answers US, then there is the next question as to immigration status showing you have the legal right to be here.
Legally, I can only be in my homeland because of my non-US status. IF I stated USA, my passport does not have an official recognition. In essence as a US person I would be an illegal alien. So the only thing I can be is my chosen nationality.
There is no such thing as being a hybrid grafted citizen. You are one or the other, you can only exercise a single citizenship at any point in time.
JT ” the unfortunate consequence of FATCA is that Americans who hold dual citizenship still fall under its authority”
A Canadian Citizen who has “clinging nationality” with the USA who is resident in Canada does not fall under US authority per international law which is the agreed position by the US State Department in its Counselor manual. Links above
A Canadian Citizen who has “clinging nationality” with the USA who is resident in Canada who ventures south of the border does fall under US authority per international law and Canada has no right to defend that US Person.
A Canadian Citizen who has “clinging nationality” with the USA who is resident in Canada who is in a third country for whatever reason is a Canadian Citizen per international law and does not fall under US Authority;
Within a third State, a person having more than one nationality shall be treated as if
he had only one. Without prejudice to the application of its law in matters of personal
status and of any conventions in force, a third State shall, of the nationalities which
any such person possesses, recognise exclusively in its territory either the nationality
of the country in which he is habitually and principally resident, or the nationality of
the country with which in the circumstances he appears to be in fact most closely
all i have is a canadian passport. my last trip in november to the states i was told to go to the post office and obtain an american one. of course i did no such thing and went to the beach instead.
i have been a canadian citizen since 1980 and have not resided nor worked in the us of a since 1989.
if anyone askes me what my nationality is “canadian” comes out of my mouth with out a moments hesitiation.
what i was asking in my above question was … if the gov’t of canada is asking me what my citizenship is to provide that answer to the american gov’t and i tell the canadian gov’t i am a canadian citizen do not the charter of rights protect us from being discriminated against being asked what my nationality is? this question is in no way shape of form palitable when it is asked of me by my bank but it is even less palitable when it is asked of my by my gov’t.
I believe the Charter applies to both non-governmental entities (e.g. banks) and to the government. So, regardless of whether it’s the government or the bank violating the Charter, it’s still a Charter violation (assuming Peter Hogg is correct in his assessment).
And I imagine that if FATCA were to go into effect as envisioned by the US, it won’t be as straightforward as saying you’re Canadian and leaving it at that. You may possibly be asked if you’re a US citizen or person (assuming this turns out to not be a Charter violation). I have no idea what the penalty, if any, would be for lying.
I’m not sure if this answers your question.
From his quick change of subject at the Okotoks ‘meet and greet’ that I attended with ‘disgusted’, http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/01/23/mps-ted-hsu-and-scott-brison-with-q121-and-q127-understand-fatca-but-does-the-leader-of-the-liberal-party-justin-trudeau/, I’ll second that, USCitizenAbroad.
please note that the Canadian Constition does not protect property right which would have made a Supreme Court challeng stronger
“Another key difference is that the Fifth and Fourteenth US Amendments add the right to property, and the Canadian Bill adds the right to “enjoyment of property.” The fact that section 7 excludes a right contained in its sister laws is taken as significant, and thus rights to property are not even read into the rights to liberty and security of the person.
There have been calls for section 7 to protect property. In 1981 the Progressive Conservative Party suggested that section 7 be extended to protect the “enjoyment of property.” Some provincial governments, including that of Prince Edward Island, as well as the New Democratic Party, opposed the change. The NDP thought that if property rights were enshrined in the Charter, other economic rights should be added. In September 1982, after the Charter had been enacted, the government of British Columbia approved of an unsuccessful amendment to section 7 that would protect property rights. See Unsuccessful attempts to amend the Canadian Constitution for more information.”
Jean Chretian close ally of Trudeau signed the 1995 US Canada tax agreement that allowed US to tax US person in Canada even though the IRS will not collect from Canadian citizen. There are some long term Canadian resident, who have problems because of this. I believe that Petros said he would not have even completed a US tax return if this law was not passed. Can you confirm this fact Petros?
Pierre Trudeau strongly opposed Meech Lake Agreement, but I never saw anything out of him regarding the 1995 tax treaty. I rather have Meech Lake and no 1995 US tax treaty.
@tdott thanks and it is what i thought
it would (quite possibly) a violation of the charter of rights…yet to be proven in court to ask the question.
the intersting thing is what could the possible penalty be for lying? penalizing me and not allowing me to return ever to the states….great i don’t really want to ever vist there again…not now anyways.
i am a canadian citizen and i certainly the gov’t of canadan protects all of its citizens equally under the law or at least until the charter of rights is dismantled……..