To be honest, 
I wasn’t sure if I was making the best decision. Some people advised against renouncing US citizenship while others recommended it. Yet, after unsuccessfully warning American politicians, I elected mission safety and handed in the blue passport.
To the left is a picture of my buddies and myself on the right, loading a ship to bring us to Somalia.
Now, it is official. I could hardly believe it when I read it, but it is true. Renouncing US citizenship saved the mortgage for our primary residence. Two days ago, the provider of my mortgage stated the following in press:
“In the mean time, we have distanced ourselves from almost all of our American customers. Currently, the bank has 5 investment accounts and 39 bank accounts belonging to US citizens. The only thing in the path of reducing that down to zero is that we haven’t been able to contact the clients yet.”
Source
To the right is a picture of my grandfather who fought for America during WWII.
There is no guarantee that I would have been able to refinance my mortgage with any other service as a US citizen and neither the US Veterans Administration nor the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development are willing or able to assist Americans living outside of US jurisdiction.
Unfortunately, the Office of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity (FHEO) does not have jurisdiction to handle complaints outside of the United States.
STATUTE – It is the policy of the United States to provide, within constitutional limitations, for fair housing throughout the United States.
Sec. 802. [42 U.S.C. 3602] Definitions
(g) “State” means any of the several States, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or any of the territories and possessions of the United States.
FHEO administratively enforces federal statutes, executive orders and regulations designed to afford all persons an equal opportunity to live in housing of their choice and to participate in HUD-assisted programs and activities without regard to race, color, national origin, sex, religion, familial status (families with children under 18), disability, or age.
Source
I volunteered to fight for America in the US Army, yet which American politician fought to save the home of an American veteran living abroad? I could care less about banking secrecy as long as the innocent are protected and I’m all for combatting money laundering. Yet, America needs to do much more to ensure that its policies do not cause harm to innocent Americans living overseas in violation of US federal laws prohibiting national origin discrimination.
Federal law prohibits housing discrimination based on your race, color, national origin, religion, sex, familial status, or disability.
Source
A residency-based tax system would prevent national origin discrimination against Americans for having a mortgage on their primary home or local checking account, and fighting for such would not violate US federal laws. Maybe it is time to fight for America and Americans like how my family and myself have done so.
@Tortured,
It sounds like the initial shock has warn off for you Tortured. I am glad you are starting to feel more optimistic!
@Tortured, when I began to fill out 8854, the form seemed stupid and I got tempted to stop filling it out to attach a note to it explaining why I did not do so. Yet, since my total slave worth is negative, since my wife owns half of me and I own all the debt, I filled out the darn form and sent it in. Now, if they want 30% of my negative value, then they’ll have to send me a check for $18000!
Why not try taking the middle road? Renounce and then send them back the form explaining why you did not fill it out. Most Americans are generally good people, so either they will understand the situation and let you off the hook, or your statement will fall into the hands of some expat-hater who will fight for drones to be sent in your direction. If they let you off the hook, then you’d do a great service for Americans living abroad, proving that maybe the US government is possibly not all that bad as the current media is displaying it to be. If, on the other hand, they respond with threats and scares, then simply live your life as a happy Canadian who never goes anywhere near the American border. Honestly, with all the stuff going on right now, I’d rather avoid America as much as possible regardless of what it thinks of my 8854.
Calgary411 –
Those expatriating in 2013 will have to wait until the new and improved / updated 2013 form is available at the end of 2013. You will not be able to use the 2012 version of the IRS Form 8854.
usxcanada is a great fan of the COUNTEREXAMPLE, and here relates direct knowledge of an instance of a person (1) who relinquished [yes, that is not “renounced”] and received CLN early in a tax year (2) who scribble-redesignated that existing year’s 8854 in order to file right away (3) who rapidly within that same year had name appear in the inscrutable quarterly listing of the Federal Register.
Please note the embedded second counterexample: a relinquisher on the quarterly list. So that thing is not just for renouncers, as Brock folklore so loves to suppose.
Those who obsessively seek the perfections and certainties of United States law and process are doomed forevermore to stumble over contradictions to any principle they think they may have discerned.
An infinity of devils dance on the point of a pin, especially a long sharp hatpin repeatedly inserted into a waxen voodoo doll of Uncle Sam.
Sauve qui peut!
Thanks, usx.
Ok, for what its worth, I just sent this article to the Ways and Means Committee, ACA and the Coalition for Tax Competition. No response yet from Rand Paul if he got it, or from Bailey.
@usx, how did you relinquish? I wish that I could have saved the $450.
What upsets me is that the US government tries to reach outside its boundaries and violate the sovereignty of other nations to PENALIZE and does not extend its own constitutional and legal PROTECTIONS to those that might be affected in contravention of its own laws.
@Swisspinoy This is an excellent post. I would suggest that you organize with Petros to list it in the sidebar.
WhiteKat
“so deciding to say ‘screw off’ to the USA was not an easy one. But it feels like the right one, the moral one, and for now a relatively safe one. ”
Bravo!. Lawyers with US privileges are not permitted to tell you not to file even if not filing is the right decision. That’s why each of us has to decide for him/herself. Consulting 1, 2, 3 or more US lawyers will only confuse. Canadian lawyers should be more objective and should tell us that the US cannot collect taxes or penalties from Canadian citizens.
SwissPinoy – “Direct knowledge of an instance” is not a roundabout way of saying the instance was me. It was not me. My agony has been far more extended and costly, and included the $450 head tax. So we’re in the same club. And bashed by the same club. That particular route to relinquishment fell under one of the standard criteria that are available to so few.
“Sauve qui peut!”
Could not have put it better…..
Very grateful to have found this blog. I am an American, who has lived in the UK for over 15 years. My husband is British, and both our children were born in the UK. I have not gotten them US passports, or reported their birth to the US, because of the tax burden it would place on them. Will they be required to renounce US citizenship at some point? Very grateful for any advice on this.
@Tiller: Your children, provided you did not register their births abroad at a US consulate, are not part of the United States information grid, at least not as US persons for tax purposes. Renouncing in their cases would put them on the radar, and since the US doesn’t know of them as US citizens, this seems to me worse than simply staying off the grid. Don’t you think it would be better for them to simply live as UK citizens with no ties to the United States? If the US doesn’t know they are citizens, and they never claim citizenship or try to get a US passport, then they are simply UK citizens, and they should travel only on a UK passport upon arriving at an age of majority.
Question: Have they ever traveled to the US on their UK passports?
Only if, at some point in their lives, they decide to apply for the citizenship in the first place. If one day they ask you about American citizenship, then you can explain your reasoning. If they want to take up their citizenship once they are adults, then that is their decision.
Otherwise, ignore it.
Of course, if you renounce, then the matter becomes mute I believe as you would no longer be American and therefore any right to US citizenship would be annulled.
@Petros
Thank you for your reply. I have no intention of registering my children with the US, or getting them a Social Security Number. They travel in and out of the US on their British Passports, although when they were babies and I carried them through passport control in Arizona, I would get a hard time from the officer checking my passport. One time I was sent, with my 10 month old daughter, out of the American Citizens’ line, and told I had to go through the foreign passport control. Such bullies. Most of my American friends here, have gotten their UK born children US passports, without questioning the impact this will have on them later in life. I think I have made the right decision for my children. This government grows more frightening by the day.
@ Medea Fleecestealer
Thanks for this. I am seriously considering renouncing my citizenship. Something I never thought I would even consider.
@tiller…
I am not the expert, as I don’t keep up with all the rules. However, I seem to recall that for children, such as yours, relinquishment before the age of 18 1/2 is the easiest option to clear their American citizenship hassles, if desired, without any tax complications. I am sure someone here will correct me if I am wrong.
I do see a lot of questions and answers in this regard over on the Ask your question thread. I am sure I have seen similar questions discussed there. I don’t pay that close of attention to the details as it is not something I am planning to do, or do I have children in that category. Just thought I might suggest that you might get a more nuanced answer by those in similar situation there. Of course, it may ad TMI and confuse. Just wanted to suggest that option. It certainly sounds like they are NOT on the U.S.information grid as Petros says, so doing nothing might be the best answer.
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/renunciation/
@tiller, no I never thought I would either. But I did in March this year.
Although Just Me’s comments are valid, frankly as they are not on the US’s radar then just forget they have any connection to America. As far as the Americans are concerned citizenship-wise they don’t exist so I’d keep it that way. Until the US wakes up and adopts residencey-based taxation if you can avoid being noticed, it’s going to be the best thing all round as far as avoiding tax complications go. The costs of filing are only going to go up and up, you’re pretty much stuck with e-filing everything now or face penalty payments if you still use paper and if the UK banks decide to get as touchy about US citizenship as the Swiss ones have been, well you’ll struggle to find/keep a bank account. Leave well enough alone, they’re British born and raised and that’s how they’ll see themselves in the future.
@tiller, I hear you! I never thought about renouncing until last year when I renounced after about 4 months after thinking about it for the first time. Technically speaking, one shouldn’t have to renounce, but the US wants to make a big deal out of the whole darn thing for all the wrong reasons.
Anyways, I just sat down to scan for an article which talks about the criteria used for finding US person suspects. Well, I didn’t find it yet, but came across another article which is maybe just as interesting:
If, a big if, the US can be “trusted”, then it is best for kids to renounce before the age of 18.5 if they wish to not be more annoyed with American hassles. Otherwise, as mentioned, it could make sense to stay off their radar, but such risks that banks or whatever, will suspect US citizenship due to parents or one of many other reasons. As such, I don’t know what to recommend.
@tiller, also, the last US passport holder in our local family has suggested renouncing in a decade if the situation does not improve.
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