110 thoughts on “FATCA Fact Finding Forum video link”

1. *Awsome, thanks for this…Happy Christmas if you celebrate…

2. Peter W. Dunn speaks out against FATCA at a FATCA Fact Finding Forum in Toronto. http://bit.ly/WLIjVI The other Dunn, not @PeteThePlanner

   https://twitter.com/FATCA_Fallout/status/283316127315148800

3. Well done.  Thank goodness for Red Tories!

4. *A special well done to the videographer. 10 X better than most .

5. Thanks for posting, Petros.  Thanks for videoing and getting this up, Deckard.  Looks like great work so far. 

   I don’t have time today or tomorrow but will start transcribing Parts 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.  Pacifica, do you want to start on 6, 7, 8, 9?

   Thanks again — now go enjoy the holidays with our family.  Cheers!

6. Hi Calgary, I just did #1 already as soon as I saw it was posted.  But I’ll skip ahead to 6-9.  I’m interested to hear a few towards the end in particular, so that would work out great for me.

   Thanks, Deckard. The sound is great!  Thanks for posting, Petros.  I’m really looking forward to hearing this — wish I could have been there.

   Thanks and happy holidays!

7. Here is the transcript of the Opening Remarks by the Honourable Sinclair Stevens.  This is Part 1 of 9 of the Toronto FATCA Fact Finding Forum.  I couldn’t wait to give it at least a bit of a listen as soon as I saw the video posted.  Calgary and I will be posting the remaining parts pretty soon.  But now it’s time to swing into Christmas mode!  Happy holidays!

8. Hi everyone!  I really appreciate your thanks, and I sincerely hope you enjoy this little cadeau from cold and snowy Ottawa.  My only wish is that you share this link with as many people as possible so we can quickly begin to build on a very successful day in Toronto.

   But now it’s Christmas Eve, and time for all of us to celebrate and enjoy the warmth and comfort of family and friends.  You too are now part of my circle of friends and I wish all of us only the best for the holidays and the New Year.

   Cheers!

9. Oh my, thanks all round to everyone at the forum, the videographer and the transcribers. We celebrate on Christmas Eve (something from my Mother’s Norwegian heritage) so I’ll have to wait to dig into these Brock goodies later. Right now I have a bird in the oven to take care of.

   MERRY CHRISTMAS @ ALL!

10. @all THE BIRD IN THE OVEN IS CALLED ***FATCA***  MAY ALL PEOPLE ON THIS EARTH WHO CHERISH DEMOCRACY SAY  ***STOP***   Eat your bird.   Eat the imperialism of the US.   What goes in must come out. 

    Long live democracy.

11. I will chime in and say that I found this 9 part YouTube presentation extremely informative and enlightening.

    It was also nice to put a face to Peter Dunn after talking to him many times on the phone…(again, a very good presentation Peter).

    Did anyone else besides me get the idea that, under the current bullet points of determining if one is considered a ‘US Person’ for FATCA reporting purposes….it seems to me that if one relinquishes or renounces there US citizenship that they may still be considered a US Person for reporting as they satisfy one of the questions regarding birth in the United States….or am I interpreting this correctly?…..incorrectly??

12. @mach73,

    “Did anyone else besides me get the idea that, under the current bullet
    points of determining if one is considered a ‘US Person’ for FATCA
    reporting purposes….it seems to me that if one relinquishes or renounces
    there US citizenship that they may still be considered a US Person for
    reporting as they satisfy one of the questions regarding birth in the
    United States….or am I interpreting this correctly?…..incorrectly??”

    It seems clear that if FATCA is implemented, you will spend the rest of your life needing to prove that you are not a U.S. Person.

13. David, in everything that I’ve seen so far regarding the FATCA, there is always an additional clause stating “unless they can produce a CLN”.

    However, someone mentioned on here that TD Waterhouse offshore in Luxemburg will not open an account for ANYONE who has had any US ties: past, present, or future.

    I should probably test this out before I renounce: go back to the same Swiss banks that rejected me because I was born in the US and this time tell them that I have a CLN.

    At least on here, the ex-US Citizens that live in Switzerland report to have no problems with Swiss banks after they renounce. “Swissies” (meant to be affectionate), feel free to negate or confirm whatever I’m saying.

    I still can’t figure out why the Canadian Dollar is referred to as the Loonie!

14. Hi Geez, it’s because the one dollar coin has a loon on it — BTW the two-dollar coin (I forget what’s on it) is called a toonie.

15. DQ. Once you renounce or relinquish , you are no longer a US cit. Period. Whether you fill out the departure forms or not is up to you.

16. *Summer of 2011, while crossing the US-Canada border, the US guard commented  that my Canadian passport said I was born in the US. At the time I tought nothing of his comment.

    Later in 2011, reading about FATCA, etc, I began to understand and haven’t crossed the border since then.

    I came to Canada in ’67. I had paid into US social security but never had a US passport. I paid US taxes for 1967 and have not submitted since. Didn’t know I was supposed to since I didn’t live or work or have investments there.

    In ’73 I became a Canadian citizen and assumed that in taking the oath to the queen I was giving up US citizenship. I certainly had no use for it. My life and career were here.

    So, does the US think I am a US citizen? As for the compliance process, I have been told it would cost maybe fifteen thousand dollars for accountants and lawyers. Travel to the US would be nice, but not at that price.

    Any info on my situation would be helpful. Thanks.

17. @Ward N. Mowry

    Welcome.   You came to the right blog to find answers to your questions. You will find some of the members answering these types of question on this “Ask your question” thread, although they might see it here.  

    Since it is Xmas back there, some may be taking a break. While waiting you could start reading many of the comments going back to page one.  In fact, I will link you to page one if you prefer.  In that reading, you will find many asking the same questions as you, and there are some excellent expert Canadians who can assist you.  

    Hope this helps

18. Hi Ward,

    Sounds like you relinquished your US citizenship according to s. 349(1)(a) of the Immigration and Nationalities Act in 1973 and are no longer a US citizen.  But the US won’t recognise this fact until you apply for a Certificate of Loss of Nationality.   

    Prior to 1986, the presumption was that you intended to lose your US citizenship when you naturalised in another country.  Then, at that time, State Dept reversed the presumption.  Much more recently, like around 2011, people started to hear that they needed a CLN – almost no one ever even heard of this document before then.

    At any rate, from what you’ve written, it sounds like you naturalised voluntarily, with the intention of terminating your US citizenship, and that your conduct since that date has been consistent with having relinquished US citizenship, which are the criteria for obtaining a CLN based on the date of your naturalisation.

    People in the situation similar to yours can apply for and receive a CLN which is backdated to the date of their loss of citizenship. Many of us have. Other people in the situation have chosen to stay under the radar.

    Of course, if you apply for a CLN, that puts you on the radar. So, as far as IRS, is it necessary to be in tax compliance if your citizenship ended prior to 1995?  The experts are mixed on if this applies retroactively or not.  So is the Brock community. It seems that most, but not all, of the long-ago relinquishers consider that this law does not apply to people who relinquished pre-1995. It’s pretty much a general consensus — however, no one can be sure, so it comes down to a personal decision. You can read quite a bit about that here.

    Here’s some more Brock threads relating to this. 

    Did you relinquish before February 6, 1995?

    Please read this post if your actual expatriation date is before 2004

    Consulate Report Directory

    Relinquishment and Renunciation:  What is the Difference?  Is there a Difference?

19. *when you became Canadian, you gave up US citizenship. The border guy was reminding you that ,if you wish, you could reaquire  U s citizenship.  Clearly that is not something you should do. You have no obligation to fill out any tax forms to the US 

20. Re-post from Ask your FATCA Question Thread.

    In Preparing For FATCA, American Government Relations Specialist Tells Jamaican Firms: Stop Wasting Your Money

    A senior government-relations specialist in the United States (US) has declared that Jamaican financial institutions should “stop wasting their money” trying to revamp their operations in preparation for the implementation of the new American tax law, the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA).

    The advice from James Jatras, who also manages the US-based websiterepealfatca.com, comes in the wake of a report in the US that the Treasury Department will miss the January 1, 2013, deadline it had set to publish the final regulations that will govern the new legislation.

    This is the second missed deadline for the publication of the final regulations and analysts say it raises doubts as to whether the new law, designed to track American tax-dodgers worldwide, will be in place by June next year.

    STOP PUSHING NEGOTIATION

    “Stop paying accountants and tax lawyers lots of money to become compliant with rules that don’t even exist yet. Why do you spend money complying with rules that don’t even exist, rules that may never even take effect?” Jatras questioned.

    According to him, the delay is an indication that the US is finding it increasingly difficult to convince other countries to sign reciprocal inter-governmental agreements and said financial institutions in Jamaica and the rest of the Caribbean should stop pushing their governments to negotiate a deal with Washington.

    “This is exactly what Washington wants … . Washington knows they cannot enforce FATCA unless your country and other countries agree to put the shackles on themselves,” he said.

    But it appears Jatras’ advice has come too late for some local financial institutions which, according to Earl Jarrett, the general manager of Jamaica National Building Society (JNBS), have already spent “a lot of money” to engage the services of accountants and attorneys “to help get ready for FATCA”.

21. I was most impressed with the videos posted of the FATCA fact-finding meeting. The arguments were compelling and the collective knowledge of the group probably far exceeds the understanding of many in the Canadian Government. Thanks for excellent speeches and discussions!!! Governments around the world should see these videos.

    I thought that it would be useful to bring to the attention of this thread a comment that I made in another thread which analyses the Canada-US tax treaty, the US-Swiss tax treaty, and the Swiss Federal Constitution with respect to approval of treaties that threaten constitutional protections:  http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/11/13/jim-jatras-stop-an-impending-massive-handover-of-canadian-sovereignty-to-the-united-states/#comment-122171

22. I just had an interesting idea.  Looking at the Swiss IGA announcement, and noting that FATCA requires reporting income on accounts held abroad.  What if one has a current account that bears no interest?  Not to capitulate, but could this be a stop-gap measure that banks could offer people while all of the eventual civil-rights litigation is going on?

23. @ Pacifica 777  I became a naturalized Canadian citizen in 1982 with the intent of losing my US citizenship. Since then I have voted in every Canadian election, lived and worked in Canada, carried a Canadian passport, have been a dues-paying member of a Canadian political party, and supported Canadian charities. Since 1982 I have not voted in any US election or participated in any of the other obove ways in US life.

    With your understanding of the situation, should it be straight-forward for me to obtain a CLN?

    Thank you!

24. @Northern Shrike,

    It sounds very straight-forward to me.  Actually sounds a lot like my situation.  

    The consulates seem to understand our situation as long-ago relinquishers very clearly, and really do not appear to be trying to trap people in unwanted already-relinquished citizenship or play games with this (but read the Consulate Report Directory to make sure your local consulate is AOK, if not go elsewhere).

    Incidentally on the 4079, for the question “Do you vote [in Canada]?”  I not only ticked “yes,” but wrote that I’d voted in every election, have been a member of the party for 30 years, etc.  Figured I’d give them the clearest possible picture that I could.   I hadn’t thought of this, but you could also mention supporting charities under question 12(c) your social ties or (e) other ties to Canada.

25. Thanks for that, Pacifica.

    I’m just getting started. I’ll work on Part 4 of 9 today as that is the only one I’ve been able to download from YouTube today (and couldn’t get any yesterday). For consistency, I’ll just email a Word document to you and have you incorporate into a main document(s) that you can post. I’ll, then, do Parts 2, 3, 4 and 5.

    Thanks again for all your hard work in getting these recorded and on YouTube, Deckard.