Woofy pulled this off the Canadian Banker’s Association website:
I am not a U.S. person. What does FATCA mean for me?
The majority of Canadians are not U.S. persons and, in most cases, FATCA will have little impact. If you have an existing account and there is an indication that you may be a U.S. person, or if you are opening a new account, your financial institution may ask you to provide additional information or documentation to demonstrate that you are not a U.S. person.
If you choose not to provide this additional documentation upon request, at a minimum, your financial institution may be required to withhold a tax of 30% on U.S. source payments that you receive and send this money to the IRS.
This is really just a game. The CBA should just tell the IRS to take their regulations and shove it. How can people prove that they are not US persons for tax purposes? Imagine the following scenarios:
Scenario One
Banker: Were you born in the USA?
Client: Yes, but I am not a US person.
Banker: Prove it!
Client: Here is my CLN.
Case settled: Possession of a Certificate of Loss of Nationality is the proof positive that one is not US person.
Scenario Two
Banker: Were you born in the USA?
Client: No.
Banker: Prove it!
Client: Here is my birth certificate that shows that I was born in Country X which is not the United States.
Banker: Well, that proves nothing, only that you were born in Country X. We will need to see the original form birth certificates of both your parents and your grandparents.
Client: But I’ve been a Country Xer since birth–why do I have to do this?
Banker: We don’t make the rules, we just follow them.
Client: My grandparents passed away a long time ago; I guess that means I can’t prove that I’m not an American.
Case settled: Client is a recalcitrant account holder because of a stubborn unwillingness to prove that he/she is not descended from the Americans going back two generations.
Scenario Three
Banker: Were you born in the USA?
Client: No.
Banker: Prove it!
Client: Here is my birth certificate that shows that I was born in Country X which is not the United States. Here are also my parents and grandparents original birth certificates, proving that no one in my family has been American for the last three generations.
Banker: That’s great! Now please prove that you are not a holder of a Green Card. And also please prove that neither your parents nor your grandparents were naturalized US citizens.
Client: But I’ve never worked or even lived in the US. Also, my parents and grandparents lived in Country X all their lives–they never became Americans.
Banker: Can you prove that?
Client: How do I prove that?
Banker: Well, that’s up to you.
Client: Your bank sucks.
Banker: We don’t make the rules, we just follow them.
Case settled: Client is a recalcitrant account holder because of a stubborn unwillingness to prove that he/she has never held a Green Card and that his parents and grandparents had not become naturalized citizens.
Scenario Four
Banker: Were you born in the USA?
Client: Yes, but I am not a US person.
Banker: Prove it!
Client: Here is my CLN.
Banker: Now prove that you haven’t become a Green Card holder after your relinquishment.
Client: I can’t do that!
Case settled: The account holder is recalcitrant because the possession of a CLN is no proof that one is not US person because a former US citizen may be a holder of a valid Green Card. (N.B.: I actually knew a former US citizen who was a Green Card holder).
Please forgive me if this whole affair reminds me of another attempt to round up people of a certain ethnicity. The vast majority of Canadians won’t be able prove that their parents and grandparents are not Americans nor that they are not holders of Green Cards. Perhaps, the absence of “the property of the USA” tush tattoo would convince the CBA. But then the banks will have to become like the TSA.
@ mettleman
That’s pretty much where I stand too except the certificate I hold is a Canadian birth certificate (born to Canadian parents). Year after year when my soon NOT-to-be American husband sent in those 1040’s from our permanent home in Canada we included a note which said that I am Canadian and was formerly a US resident alien (dates included). I had been told my green card was no longer valid, null & void, expired, whatever, and a whole new application would have to be made in order to live in the USA again. That meant to me, at least, that I was (and still am) a non-resident of the USA and most certainly not a US citizen. The IRS never said prove that “formerly” part so we thought we had done our due diligence. Somewhere in the muck there must be some blame to assign to the IRS because year after year they failed to warn me that my “exit” from my temporary US residence was executed incorrectly. (I didn’t know I-407s existed until 2 years ago.) One thing’s for sure, I never was an American and I never would have even considered becoming one.
https://bancdelasteroideb612.wordpress.com/2014/01/05/we-used-to-sell-us-citizenship-now-we-sell-non-citizenship-to-us-says-black-marketeer/
A solution can be purchased