Please Note: The US State Department under John Kerry, who served in Viet Nam, is now charging $2350 to receive any CLN whether one has relinquished or renounced. So if you are coming to this only now, you are SOL when it comes to getting a free CLN.
See also Relinquishing your US citizenship in Germany
Those of us who have participated in the Expat Forum have seen that one of the first things that many many newbies say is, “I am going to renounce my US citizenship as soon as I have my Canadian citizenship.” Now, I want to suggest that one should never renounce their citizenship if they can relinquish it instead. Months ago I wrote a post on this subject, which I provide below.
But first, some explanations: Renouncing is one of seven ways to lose your citizenship. It requires swearing an oath in front of an official of the US government and it now has a $450 fee attached to it. Relinquishing does not require a US government official, for it is one of several acts that a US citizen can perform that can result in a loss of citizenship, provided the person intends to lose it. Then, the former citizen must only inform the State Department, not so as to validate the relinquishing act, but to make sure that the US government understands what your intent was when you performed it.
It has become clear that there are several advantages to relinquishing over renouncing:
(1) Relinquishment takes the act of losing your citizenship out of the hands of the US government. This has two benefits. (a) There should be no fee because it doesn’t require a US government official–it doesn’t take place in a US Consulate–you only go to the consulate to inform them of a fait accompli, and it only takes one visit, unlike renunciation which usually take two visits. (b) This saves you $450, or it should, because you are not requiring the services of the Consulate–you are there only to inform them of your intention when you committed a potentially expatriating act such as making a pledge to a foreign power.
(2) Relinquishment is usually a positive act which cannot be confused with an expatriation to avoid taxes. You do it so that you can take part in foreign government or to vote in the country you live in, not so that you can avoid US taxes.
(3) Relinquishment is not a renunciation of your citizenship, so much as a positive act vis-a-vis your new home and country. It is not a repudiation of your country but an acknowledgement that dual citizenship is an unworkable absurdity. Thus, relinquishment comes with less stigma, potentially.
Finally, a caveat is in order. Don’t do one thing and say another. That is don’t relinquish your citizenship then travel on US passport, pay tax in the US, register your children born abroad as US citizens, or take up a residence or a job in the USA, except as one holding a legitimate permit to reside or work in the US as an alien. If a person does any of these things, the State Department may not accept your relinquishment. Those who desire to lose their citizenship but who have done such things after the relinquishing act, may need to renounce their citizenship after all.
So without further ado, here is my original post, “Renunciation of US citizenship: On avoiding the new $450 renunciation fee (update 2), which explains in greater detail, what would constitute a relinquishing act:
Renunciation of US citizenship: On avoiding the new $450 renunciation fee (update 2)
I’ve been pretty upset that it would cost me $450 to renounce my citizenship now that the US consulate in Toronto has instituted a fee. But today I was looking at the various government websites: Consider this website from the US state department and its explanation of how to renounce US citizenship:
Section 349(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1481) governs how a U.S. citizen shall lose U.S. nationality. Section 349(a) states:
A person who is a national of the United States whether, by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality:(5) making a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state, in such form as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State; or(6) making in the United States a formal written renunciation of nationality in such form as may be prescribed by, and before such officer as may be designated by, the Attorney General, whenever the United States shall be in a state of war and the Attorney General shall approve such renunciation as not contrary to the interests of national defense.
Now perhaps it would interest readers to know that this government website is not telling the whole story: The U.S.C. 1481 lists several other ways that a natural born US citizen may lose their citizenship. Here is the full text (emphasis mine):
§ 1481. Loss of nationality by native-born or naturalized citizen; voluntary action; burden of proof; presumptions
(a) A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality—
(1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application or upon an application filed by a duly authorized agent, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or(2) taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or(3) entering, or serving in, the armed forces of a foreign state if
(A) such armed forces are engaged in hostilities against the United States, or(B) such persons serve as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer; or(4)
(A) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years if he has or acquires the nationality of such foreign state; or(B) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years for which office, post, or employment an oath, affirmation, or declaration of allegiance is required; or(5) making a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state, in such form as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State; or(6) making in the United States a formal written renunciation of nationality in such form as may be prescribed by, and before such officer as may be designated by, the Attorney General, whenever the United States shall be in a state of war and the Attorney General shall approve such renunciation as not contrary to the interests of national defense; or(7) committing any act of treason against, or attempting by force to overthrow, or bearing arms against, the United States, violating or conspiring to violate any of the provisions of section 2383 of title 18, or willfully performing any act in violation of section 2385 of title 18, or violating section 2384 of title 18 by engaging in a conspiracy to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, if and when he is convicted thereof by a court martial or by a court of competent jurisdiction.(b) Whenever the loss of United States nationality is put in issue in any action or proceeding commenced on or after September 26, 1961 under, or by virtue of, the provisions of this chapter or any other Act, the burden shall be upon the person or party claiming that such loss occurred, to establish such claim by a preponderance of the evidence. Any person who commits or performs, or who has committed or performed, any act of expatriation under the provisions of this chapter or any other Act shall be presumed to have done so voluntarily, but such presumption may be rebutted upon a showing, by a preponderance of the evidence, that the act or acts committed or performed were not done voluntarily.
I swear or affirm that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to her Majesty Queen of Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfill my duties a Canadian Citizen.
An individual who has performed any of the acts made potentially expatriating by statute who wishes to lose U.S. citizenship may do so by affirming in writing to a U.S. consular officer that the act was performed with an intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship. Of course, a person always has the option of seeking to formally renounce U.S. citizenship abroad in accordance with Section 349 (a) (5) INA.
Update 2: Today a consular officer called me from the US consulate in Toronto. She confirmed what I’ve said in this post, that relinquishing US citizenship and renouncing US citizenship are two different processes that are treated in a different manner by the consulate (including the fee structure).
so does this put you outside the US tax system, like renouncing does?
@Julius, indeed. The US tax system targets US person=US residents and US citizens and green card holders. Once you are no longer a citizen, you are no longer a US person by law. However, the IRS thinks that it can continue to tax you until you expatriate for tax purposes. Please read the posts on the side bar regarding which date (before 2004, before 1994/5) as to which rules could potentially apply to your case.
It is also possible just to ignore the IRS. The rules may not be enforceable if you have no assets in the United States and you live in country which will not collect for the IRS taxes from its own citizens (e.g., Canada). One reason that the banks are going to try to illegally enforce FATCA in Canada is because they view themselves to be under the jurisdiction of the United States because they have banking assets in the United States. One way to be free of this kind of tyranny then, is to dispose of US based assets, such as Apple and that condo in Florida. Smarter is to have never invested in the US in the first place.
Question about relinquishing: Most financial institutions will not open an account for a US citizen. By renouncing, one gets (eventually!) a Certificate of Lost Nationality (CLN). Assume one has not lived in or visited the US for several years. If relinquishing instead of renouncing, how does one provide proof to financial institutions in other countries that he/she is no longer a citizen of the US?
Relinquishing also gets you a CLN.
Who provides the CLN? I already renounced and I’ve been waiting over four months for my CLN.
I renounced in Paraguay but I live in Panama. I asked for a copy of the CLN, which they gave me, signed by the head honcho there and with their official seal. However, I’m waiting for the one from the state dept. with their “official” seal in the upper right hand corner. I’m tired of waiting, and I might also “relinquish.”
By the way, I renounced on April 12th and my name did not appear on this list:
https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2013/08/09/2013-19224/quarterly-publication-of-individuals-who-have-chosen-to-expatriate-as-required-by-section-6039g – said to be for the second quarter.
Claire,
My understanding is that if you have already renounced, then you have also relinquished. To renounce US citizenship is to relinquish it.
So I guess I’ll just have to continue WAITING for my official CLN…after paying $450 and relinquishing my US passport over 4 months ago.
For those who only relinquished, who provided the CLN?
@ Claire,
At this point, I’d e-mail the consulate where I renounced for a head’s up on it. You’re in the Western Hemisphere Zone. It’s unfortunately quite common for CLNs in the WH to tend to take several months to arrive.
BTW, this is a chart where Brockers have reported their timelines from consulate meeting to receipt of CLN, arranged by consulate location. http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/US-RELINQUISHMENT-RENUNCIATION.m28.pdf
You can’t relinquish if you’ve already renounced — That is if you’ve renounced you don’t have a US citizienship to relinquish any more. The act of renouncing is actually an act of relinquishment. The terminology is confusing. S. 349(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act lists 7 ways in which a person can relinquish their US citizenship — number 5 is renunciation.
You are right – I no longer have anything to relinquish. Duh, I should have thought about that!
I have emailed the consulate a couple of times, the second time a week or so ago. They are really helpful and are checking on it – still again. But there’s really nothing they can do to expedite it.
@ Claire,
All CLNs are processed by the same office in DC regardless of if they’re based on a renunciation or a different method of relinquishment.
So apparently no matter which method you use, you have to WAIT until they get around to it.
Just saw this article: A record number of Americans are giving up their U.S. citizenship. The Wall Street Journal reports that 1,130 Americans renounced their citizenship in the second quarter of 2013, more than did so in all of 2012. (I wonder how many other names besides mine don’t appear on the list for the 2nd quarter. Missing names probably indicates there are a lot more than 1,130 who renounced in the 2nd quarter.)
@Pacifica777
Just noticed a typo in that CHART link… #12 Vancouver 2nd Appt should be 2013.04? not 2012.04 as that would be out of time sync…(it’s not me by the way, as I am not on the list, just something I noticed)
I was keeping tabs on #18 schedule as his Calgary appointment was a month after mine…so we will see who gets processed first?
Mine was requested Feb 4, 2013 at Calgary for April 10, 2013 Relinquishment Appointment…no word yet…
@ Benedict Arnold,
Thanks for catching that!
It seems the Canadian CLNs are still coming in to each consulate in batches, and the Western Hemisphere zone, though its gottten faster (some people in Canada were waiting a year back in 2011-12), still seems to have a noticeably slower turnaround than the other zones. It seems to be several months now. I really hope you get yours soon.
@Pacifica777
I did an analysis of the data sheet you provided and came to an opinion that RELINQUISHMENTS for persons dating back into the 70’s (not “current date” relinquishments) were taking 6 months on average (only 1 exception of 3 1/2 months – Calgary #13) whereas RENOUNCEMENTS were now dropping to the 2 month area…
I extracted all the (60-80’s) Relinquishments from the rest to come to this conclusion…
My name says it all. In regard to relinquishment, I quoted http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html to a certain consulate and they apparently can’t read. The law says (1) OR (2) OR (3) etc. The embassy I am dealing with has written that I must do both (1) (apply for foreign citizenship, which I’ve done) AND (2) take an oath (which cannot be done until I’m a citizen and therefore released; so that’s impossible.) They say I must renounce. I am furious. Does anyone know if relinquishment can be done solely by mail, perhaps with notarized papers? Is a personal visit to a consulate necessary? Please let me know if there are any who will do this by mail. I have a letter from the country here that I can become a citizen once I am released from U.S. citizenship. This country does not allow dual citizenship.The letter is proof that I have applied for, and received a promissory note of, new citizenship.
@nail-spittin’ mad: same Catch-22 here in Hong Kong: Immigration Department demands proof of loss of former citizenship before making you a citizen, but U.S. interprets “obtaining naturalization” in 8 USC § 1481(a)(1) to require that you’ve already been made a citizen of another country before they’ll agree it’s a relinquishing act, so the consulate tells us we have to renounce not relinquish.
This is utterly pointless discrimination against people who naturalise in certain countries, and if we were talking about anything else besides giving up citizenship I doubt it would survive even a rational basis review. But the simple fact is, the State Department has got us over a barrel and they know it: you can either pay the $450 now to renounce, or you can fight it all the way to the DC Circuit Court (since the DC District Court just rules whatever they feel like with no regard for the law) and you might get a CLN two years and six figures of legal fees later, or you might be back at square one. State know that nearly everyone’s #1 priority is to get out as soon as possible and get on with their lives, and folks like Kenneth Fox who are geared up for a legal fight will show up once every two decades at best.
So like petty tyrants they take the one last chance they can get to jerk us around. (Okay technically not the last chance for me, since if I ever want to see my mother again I’ll have to apply for a visa.)
Would you feel comfortable letting us know which country it is? Someone here may have had first-hand experience there.
Some countries that do not allow dual citizenship have some sort of workaround in order that the person does not have to be stateless in the interim – eg, they let the person naturalise but they must within a year produce official documentation that they have renounced their former citizenship or if their former citizenship expired upon their naturalisation. In the latter, I’m wondering if naturalising with intent (INA, s. 349(a)(1)) would be considered automatic expiration of the former citizenship. If that were the case that would be great — but if it’s dicey could be a costly protracted legal battle.
But anyway, maybe someone who naturalised in your country will be able to help with your question.
Unfortunately for all CLN applications, renounce or relinquish, you have to appear at a consulate to sign the Dept of State forms in the presence of a consular officer (you used to be able to do relinquishment ones by mail in the 1970s).
Does anyone know what questions they ask you during the renounciation interview?
Is this a full-on interrogation? Will a lawyer be needed?
Hi Jim,
Every consulate is different but generally the questions are not difficult or designed to trick you. Read some of the experiences people have had by going to this thread (located upper right of the page) …
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/consulate2/
Click on “Click here for the Consulate Report Directory” which is a pdf file.
@Jim,
It’s a pretty straightforward low-key and short interview not an interrogation. Generally you’ll meet with a clerk for 5 or 10 minutes to hand in your documents, wait a while in the waiting area, and then meet with a vice consul for about 10 minutes or so (who has reviewed your forms before meeting with you). They don’t ask much because they’ve seen your forms, so they tend to only ask if they need clarification on something, or they may ask if you understand the consequences (the consequences are spelled out on a form you sign (DS-4081), so they may simply ask if you’ve read the form). You don’t need a lawyer.
You can read several dozen people’s experiences in the Consulate Report Directory. Also in the Directory are links to the Department of State forms used for renunciation. Some consulates use form DS-4079 for renunciations, some don’t. When you book your appointment, most consulates reply in an e-mail with links to the required Dept of State forms (some use a very short locally-prepared questionnaire in lieu of the 4079) and a list of what personal documents you need to bring to your appointment.
I was born in Canada. My parents are U.S. citizens, and therefore, so am I. I have never lived in the U.S., but I have an expired U.S. passport and SIN. Will I be able to relinquish citizenship, or do I have to renounce? Thanks fin advance. for your thoughts.
If a person RELINQUISHES his/her US Citizenship, rather than renounce it…two questions….what is the situation in relation to travelling to/visiting the US in the future? Can the person still obtain US Social Security for which he/she qualified while working/living in the US before moving to another country and obtaining citizenship in that country?
@Janeen
You’ll need a visa or a visa waiver (see ESTA online, $14, valid 2 years) to visit the US.
Yes, in most countries you can still obtain U.S. Social Security.
Taxation depends on your country. (see http://www.ssa.gov/international).
Both answers are the same regardless of whether you renounce or relinquish.
@ Janeen,
Requirements for entering the US are the same whether the expatriation is done by renunciation or relinquishment.
It’s my understanding that you retain the Social Security benefits you’ve qualified for, independent of your citizenship status, but I don’t know much at all about social security. Rev. Susi has mentioned her social security in some other comments, here’s one, and probably she or someone else will comment here more definitively on that.
Janeen, yes you retain your Social Security benefits. If you live in a country with a tax treaty w/USG, you might be able to transfer the credits even. For example, I have SS benefits coming at retirement b/c of my time working there and apparently, I can transfer them to the CPP program in Canada. There is info on the IRS website, I think, and probably on the SS website too.