Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Ask your questions about Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship and Certificates of Loss of Nationality.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well. See Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part One
No, it’s those resident before the cutoff date. It could be the date Article 50 was triggered or the date of EU exit or anywhere in between.
Those who arrive after the cutoff date and before EU exit will be able to stay until exit day and then will have a “grace period” in which to apply “in accordance with the new rules applying to EU citizens, which are yet to be determined.”
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/safeguarding-the-position-of-eu-citizens-in-the-uk-and-uk-nationals-in-the-eu/the-united-kingdoms-exit-from-the-european-union-safeguarding-the-position-of-eu-citizens-living-in-the-uk-and-uk-nationals-living-in-the-eu#eu-citizens-who-arrive-after-the-specified-date
@plaxy
I know the UK originally proposed this, but the EU refused to accept the cut off date being anything other than the last day the UK remained in the EU. I expect it is still being argued as they still haven’t arrived at any decision re EU citizens rights. What a mess.
Yes I agree nothing is definite. And the way negotiations are going, it may be quite a long time yet before anything definite is agreed.
“What a mess.”
Yep.
@plaxy
I think the argument made by the EU was that the UK could not retroactively remove EU citizens rights that had already been granted to them under EU law. The UK are still officially in the EU and EU citizens still had those rights of free movement plus the right to remain up until the exit date. .
It may end up being decided in court. Which court? Who knows.
EU citizens who aren’t already in the UK can’t rely on being allowed to stay post-Brexit. Even those who arrived after the triggering of Article 50 can’t be certain. It’s a gamble. Which is probably not what Helen and her son need, just now.
Status of EU Nationals in the UK – email alerts
https://gov.smartwebportal.co.uk/homeoffice/public/webform.asp?id=67&id2=627DF7&active=True
@plaxy
It may be an interim solution ( if the UK has the school she needs) until she finds out if she can return to the US.
I hope her original question doesn’t get lost after our long thread shift!
How in the world can there be no suitable school near you? Good grief….
Not surprising at all. Schools suitable for a child with complex difficulties can be hard to find.
Hello, Helen.
I would suggest that your path to getting to the U.S. school(s) you want for your son’s special needs will be one very slow, both for your reinstatement of US citizenship, significant cost of relocation for you and your son and finding a quick placement that the city and the state you wish to move will deem *appropriate* for your son’s special needs. I would do the extensive research for schools from where you are and remain realistic about the time it may take.
These links may be a start to some good information for you:
http://www.parentcenterhub.org/moving/
http://www.parentcenterhub.org/lg1/ (Questions Often Asked by Parents about Special Education Services, Apr 3, 2017)
https://www.greatschools.org/gk/articles/special-education-faq/
https://ldaamerica.org/resources/professional-organizations/ (a starting point to finding the realistic route to appropriate placement) Also perhaps, https://www.masters-in-special-education.com/50-great-websites-for-parents-of-children-with-special-needs/
https://www.european-agency.org/country-information/slovakia/national-overview/identification-of-special-educational-needs
https://www.state.gov/documents/organization/176076.pdf
I wish you every success in your stressful situation to find educational help your son requires.
@Jane
Sadly, schools in Europe do seem to lag well behind US/Canada in terms of how they address special-needs students. I don’t know all that much about this, but my guess is that it has something to do with the streaming of the school systems. If a child with a learning disability misses the gate at age 10 or whenever, they just go into the vocational stream, where they are not expected to work at the same level as those bound for university.
@Bear33 and that whole thread
We know what US law says about US citizens entering with US passports. We also know that it is rarely enforced against Canadians. Many of us here have used and continue to use Canadian passports with US birthplaces, and are rarely questioned. (It happened to me once in 20 years, when I was already in a bit of an argument about why a short business trip for meetings should require a visa.)
However, I’m not clear on what the real-world situation is for EU citizens and others who need the ESTA waiver. I suspect that plenty of Europeans with US birthplace are still entering without US passports, but I don’t know for certain. Might be worth gathering some data, for those who have this problem.
In Bear33’s case, if he/she doesn’t wish to pursue the relinquishment angle, he/she can still get a US passport. The application form allows you to enter all zeroes if you don’t have a SSN. The risk of any consequences from exposure to the IRS is, I think, very low.
@nononymous.
EU citizens have to answer questions on the ESTA as to where they were born, who their parents are, what other citizenships they have, what other citizenships they have had in the past.
I don’t think Bear33 stated that he has any interest in visiting the US, he wanted to confirm legally he is not a US Citizen.
@Helen, I’ve been having a bit of a Google and haven’t found anything particular about a successful reinstatment of citzenship after renouncing. It’s made pretty clear that it’s an irrevocable decision and while you may be able to appeal on the basis of coercion by another, you’d have to provide some sort of proof of that to a Federal judge, they’re not just going to take your word for it. My guess is that you would also need an immigration lawyer to plead your case and that could be very expensive if the process drags on for any length of time.
Lee Harvey Oswald managed to get his citizenship reinstated after becoming a Russian, but I guess there was a reason for that….
Elizabeth Taylor got her US citizenship reinstated but then she was to marry US Senator Warner.
Did Taylor have her US citizenship reinstated? Or did she just naturalize? She had a sponsor handy.
I have searched this website but couldn’t find an account of successful reistatement. Someone else might have better luck.
Liz was born in the UK to US parents.
https://tax-expatriation.com/2014/03/14/famous-americans-who-renounced-u-s-citizenship-elizabeth-taylor/
Yes. Then she renounced. Then she regained US citizenship, but perhaps by naturalizing rather than successfully appealing the determination of loss of US citizenship.
More info of relinquishers who who regained.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_United_States_citizens_who_relinquished_their_nationality
Lee Harvey Oswald’s attempt to renounce was not approved. Over-lengthy account at https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/appendix-15.html#attempts
Heidi – “More info of relinquishers who who regained.”
None of them seem to have regained US citizenship as the result of an appeal following an approved renunciation. Or am I just not spotting it?
@plaxy
Liz did, she wasn’t approved when she first crossed out a line, but was later approved when she re did it.
There is controversy over the validity of LHO renunciation… they would say that wouldn’t they.
Why readmit someone who had moved to Russia in the 60,s and married a Russian.
Have you seen the Oliver Stone movie, JFK?
Heidi –
Yes, Taylor’s first attempt failed, her second attempt succeeded, then she became a US citizen again.
Oswald – could be. At any rate, he apparently didn’t get reinstated as a result of a successful appeal. No, I haven’t seen the movie. Life’s way too short to be wasted. 🙂
I’m just trying to find cases that might help Helen. So far, no luck.
All of them appear to have been rather special or influential cases . It’s not a very long list.
And none seem to be comparable to Helen’s case.
No, it’s just a list of ‘famous’ people. But it proves it’s possible. But I suspect Helen will have to prove coercion.
It’s a great movie, makes a nice change to Brock. 🙂