Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Ask your questions about Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship and Certificates of Loss of Nationality.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well. See Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part One
and yes it’s good to send tracked, both my tax returns and form 8854 were sent tracked. and i know they were received. also a copy of that tracking confirmation and the form 8854 and the CLN is on file with my tax solicitor. I spoke to a tax solicitor here before renouncing re the 2 million asset test. just wanted to make sure I was under. i wasn’t one of those that was way under but was under in my calculations, just wanted confirmation, the Brexit exchange rate gave me a bigger margin which helped.
Yes, always send any IRS related stuff via registered post/tracking. That way you have a record of delivery – if they then lose it, it’s not your problem. I followed mine by both Swiss Post and USPS and made printed copies of both tracking systems data when the stuff was delivered.
Thanks for the info about renunciation year filing of 1040 and 1040NR when there is no income to report for either period.
Re the filing of 8854, this may be of some use:
https://hodgen.com/you-cant-file-form-8854-via-fedex-or-ups/
followed by
https://hodgen.com/filing-form-8854-by-fedex-a-success-story/
From second post:
“The moral of the story in my prior blog post was that there is no official way to file Form 8854 via FedEx or UPS. Unofficial ways exist, of course. This is an example. Another example is personal hand delivery — that would work, too.”
Totally stupid that there is no official way to file 8854 via UPS or Fedex, but there you have it.
Tracked International mail worked for me, from the UK.
Though I did have to ring Royal Mail to contact the US Postal Service and ask them what was going on, when it kept going round and round Philadelphia and not getting delivered.
@tdott
Thanks for those links! I hadn’t realized (yet) that getting tracking for the 8854 might be problematic.
@WestCoaster, I guess it depends on how you do it. Doesn’t seem to be possible with UPS or Fedex – iirc sometime back it was said that the IRS no longer signs for such deliveries. Posting via your local post service should be okay, providing USPS know where they have to deliver it to. For mine, I see they made a delivery attempt at 10.16am and then it was logged as delivered at 11.11am. Don’t know if there was a problem or simply the delivery person didn’t find time to log it until a bit later.
@WestCoaster
If your postal service has some sort of registered mail service that will work fine.
I did what Iota did, sent it international tracked through Royal Mail. it arrived with no issues.
the problem with using the courier service is that couriers only deliver to a street address and there is no official street address in the instructions for the form 8854.
@tdott thanks as well for that link, I actually did what phil hodgen described in the first link, sent my final tax return by courier because there is an official street address for that and yes it was signed for.
And the waiting begins.
I just sent all my forms and questionnaire to request an appointment for my CLN. After I pressed “send” I actually felt sad which surprised me. Whenever I thought about it I never felt any emotion. (I did grow up in the U.S. so that is obviously a factor.)
I’ll keep you guys up to date! I think I will have to wait 4 to 5 months for an actual appointment.
@valentina
It’s sad because it’s a waste of a perfectly good citizen. For many, that sadness has turned to anger even after they renounce. That’s one of my apprehensions about renouncing, that I might actually get angrier than I already am. They might find me a pile of smouldering ash one day.
Sorry, I can’t bring myself to congratulate people for renouncing, but I wish you luck and hope you feel better after you do.
@Medea Fleecestealer
“Doesn’t seem to be possible with UPS or Fedex – iirc sometime back it was said that the IRS no longer signs for such deliveries. Posting via your local post service should be okay, providing USPS know where they have to deliver it to.”
In that case, I will likely send it via Canada Post but with tracking. I guess no signature, if they no longer sign!
@iota
“Though I did have to ring Royal Mail to contact the US Postal Service and ask them what was going on, when it kept going round and round Philadelphia and not getting delivered.”
So strange, since you’d think it would be a well-known delivery address. Honestly, it’s like they look for ways to make the process more stressful for us! Anyway, glad to hear you were able to used tracked international mail successfully. I’ll use the Canadian equivalent.
@valentina
Many of us feel mixed emotions when booking that appointment, but clearly you’ve given the matter a lot of thought, so hopefully you’ll find the relief outweighs the sadness when all is said and done. Tip: Don’t be like me and leave it to the last minute to figure out how to fill out the 8854!
@Bubblebustin –
“It’s sad because it’s a waste of a perfectly good citizen.” – Absolutely.
I don’t think I’ve gotten angrier since renouncing – but I have become much more vocal. Before renouncing I was more focused on dealing with my own situation. Afterwards I was able to focus my anger at the system into more productive avenues. I think this has been a good outlet for my anger and frustration, and a healthy way of putting it to use.
@UK Rose
“If your postal service has some sort of registered mail service that will work fine.
I did what Iota did, sent it international tracked through Royal Mail.”
Yes, that’s what I’ll do. I’m going to do a little dance once the papers are done and dusted, as in completed and successfully delivered. Did you use the following address for Philadelphia?
Dept of the Treasury
Internal Revenue Service
2970 Market Street
Philadelphia, PA 19104
USA
@iota
Did you use the above address?
@UK Rose
By the way, I realize that you said you used an address you got it from Phil’s site so it’s probably that one, but I thought I’d double-check! The last thing I want to do is send the 8854 to an address that’s no longer valid.
@Karen
I’m glad you feel that way. I guess it’s easy to become active when you’ve had to pay the ultimate price, that is your citizenship, because of this injustice. I just can’t predict how I’ll feel, especially if it could be worse. That’s why I fight – but it won’t be forever. I won’t burden my loved ones with this curse when I am no longer able to look after my own affairs.
Thoughts on renouncing:
Letting go of anything has never been easy for me. Never having succumbed to the allure of the last refuge of a scoundrel, patriotism was not an issue. But on an emotional level, having US citizenship as well as UK and Canadian was very ego-boosting. Realising and accepting that I had to renounce, and actually doing it, was similar to reaching that stage in life when you understand you are pretty ordinary and give up the hopes you once had of reaching the top, e.g. the CEO, super-rich, a powerful politician, a celebrity. On the plus side, accepting that some things cannot be changed does bring a new peace of mind. And it feels good that one’s family is no longer exposed to US problems. Your mileage may vary.
@Bubblebustin
I really don’t want to find you reduced to a pile of smouldering ash! It’s imperative to protect your emotional well being and state of mind first!
And I completely understand that you can’t congratulate anyone for renouncing but I am glad to have you and everyone else on this forum! It’s a lifesaver support wise – from an informational, intellectual, and emotional point of view!
@WestCoaster – I just hope the 8854 is not too complicated to fill out! My situation is not complicated at all. Thanks for the head up!
Thank you and I agree with you about Brock.
It should be a national treasure, but they’d find some way yo tax us on it 🙂
@WestCoaster, the address in the 8854 form instructions is:
Department of the Treasury
Internal Revenue Service
Philadelphia, PA 19255-0049
So it’s no wonder Fedex/UPS can’t/won’t deliver as it gives no street/number as part of the address. I used the above with no problems though so you should be fine using your local postal service’s tracking system.
Guess it just goes to show how efficient normal postal services can be over the fancier, more expensive services like UPS/Fedex. Obviously if you’re very late in getting the documentation off then using a courier service and the DoT address with the street/number in it would be the way to go.
@Westcoaster:
“Did you use the above address?”
I sent the 8854 to the address the 8854 instructions said to send it, because I wanted to be able to prove that I had sent it to the address stated in the instructions and had been notified of delivery by the USPS. That’s all that matters – fine with me if the dog ate it or it got thrown in the bin. 🙂
West coaster. The address in the 8854 instructions only includes the Zip code. It is
Department of the Treasury
Internal Revenue Service
Philadelphia, PA 19255-004
I know Phil says not to use Fedex or UPS for Philly but in fact there is a street address that FEdex and UPS can use.
Philadelphia-
Internal Revenue Submission Processing Center
11601 Roosevelt Blvd.
Philadelphia, PA 19154
Correction
Zip code for Philadelphia mailing address 19255-0049
Please do NOT rely on the street address I posted. It may be outdated. Mea Culpa.
@Iota, Pretty sure she claimed for the full amount for the standard deduction, though pro rata would have still nullified all taxation. I was p*ssed with the IRS’s refusal but at the end of the day it was only $172. I was more relieved just to know that the IRS had received and was processing this final tax return.
Plus the fact that my accountant felt sort of bad and never invoiced me for the final paper work, which I was expecting to be around £2000. I was her minnow client. 🙂
@mona – I was just curious if they would allow a pro rata claim for the standard deduction, as that would be logical. But of course logic is not their thing, they do as they please.
“Plus the fact that my accountant felt sort of bad and never invoiced me for the final paper work, which I was expecting to be around £2000. I was her minnow client. :)”
That’s nice. And rare. 🙂
I think we all can say, with regards to 1st-world, plenty of money in it’s coffers & that the USA is leading the world in it’s corruption/manipulation of the people/press & especially, the lower-rung of them?
The scales have tipped– not towards the greedy, but towards the (ought to be diagnosed but cannot due to their infliction) narcissists. Mentally-ill people writing laws.
These people would gut their kids, grandkids, adored pets— IF they could & IF it would give them more fuel of adoration or power/wealth. Au is arse-kissing Chump, even as he exposes his own folly!!!
How do we combat THIS? I know I’m correct, & I’m in agony of the bleak future for my two children. I’ve already told them, “don’t have children”, as I’m so sick about what they’d be forced to live through….. 🙁