Consulate Report Directory (Brockers Describe their Consulate Meetings) and CLN Delivery Time Chart Part 2
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Wonder what really happens at the consulates? Find out in the Isaac Brock Society’s Consulate Report Directory, currently 279 pages of first-hand accounts of renunciation/relinquishment appointments, arranged by consulate location, along with further information and links to the required Dept of State forms and the Dept of State manuals used by the consulates in processing CLN applications, with an appendix containing a timeline chart (booking-meeting-CLN) as reported by consulate location.
The Directory is updated as consulate visit stories are posted on the website.
You can post here or elsewhere on the site (we’ll keep an eye out for them). Some comments may be excerpted or condensed slightly in the consulate reports. The original posts and comments remain on their threads are not edited.
Thanks to everyone for sharing your experiences…and keep ’em coming! It’s a new experience for everyone and your information is really helpful.
To change or delete your report in the Directory, you can post the change as a comment on this thread or e-mail Pacifica@isaacbrocksociety.ca
Click here for the Consulate Report Directory
Notes:
Consulates are listed alphabetically by country and the Directory’s table of contents links to each section (they don’t look like links, but they are.)
This thread is a continuation of Consulate Report Directory Part 1, which contains earlier discussion on this topic, 929 comments from its inception in March 2012 through February 2013.
To Book an Appointment and/or Request Information from your Local Consulate:
This post by Eric, Almost No US Citizenship Renunciation Appointments Left During 2016 in Dublin, contains a chart of links to the consulates’ website pages on renunciation/relinquishment, for info on booking appointments and/or requesting information at your location. (The title highlights Dublin, but the charts, article and discussion cover consulates around the world.)
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@BenPloni, don’t you? I’m very sure the negotiators are saying that the US will be happy to reciprocate once the IGA is signed; it’s part of their spin to get countries to sign up. But we know that they won’t have to because US law always gives them a get-out.
@bc_doc – were you tax compliant before you went for CLN or are you hoping to avoid that by getting your back-dated CLN?
@nolongerauscitizen: I came to Canada for graduate studies in the early 90s. I’ve never filed since I left the US. Yes, I will avoid filing by using a 2001 relinquishment date (date I took Canadian citizenship). If the relinquishment date isn’t approved, I will run my US passport through a cross-cut shredder and call it a day.
@BC_Doc, shredding your US passport won’t make any difference if you have an American birthplace. If/When the Canadian banks get around to checking your American status, unless you can produce a CLN to show you’ve renounced/relinquished you are Amercian until the day you die. Chopping up the blue book means nothing in that respect, although it may make you feel better to do so. Believe me, if it was that easy to rid ourselves of American status, many more people would have done it. But as far as the American and Canadian governments and the Canadian banks are concerned no CLN means your bank info will be reported and you may have problems with your bank for being wilfully non-compliant with your US tax filing.
If you can’t relinquish, renounce and file what’s needed and then be done with it. Or take a chance, don’t file and never visit the States again. The Canadian government has said it won’t collect penalties so you should be safe from that, but if the Canadian banks do as the Swiss ones have been doing and demand prove of US tax compliancy you could find accounts blocked/closed if you can’t provide said evidence.
@MedeaFleecestealer, after looking at the IGA agreements without passion. It does not matter in the end if you have a CLN.
The IGA is worded with the word “UNLESS” which makes reporting mandatory unless the bank on its own decision decides to ask for a CLN.
Take a look at the Canada IGA, read it slowly. But on a bankster hat and think like a compliance maverick.
A bank MUST report an “unambiguous place of birth” UNLESS it decides to go through the three questions ultimately asking for a CLN or why you do not have one.
I relinquished pre FATCA and was just starting to think about getting a CLN post FATCA. But to be honest, the way we have been dealt with, I wonder if its worth the effort because my information will still be handed over.
@Undocumented Emigrant, I have to disagree. Once you have a CLN you can be pro-active and send your bank a copy whether they ask for it or not. Once they have your CLN there should be no need for them to report your details. If they do, sue them for all they’re worth.
I don’t know what, if any, penalties the IGA says Canadian banks face if their customers aren’t deemed US tax compliant. But if there are penalties then any ex-US citizen they can cross off their list will be a win win for you both.
@MedeaFleecestealer– I’m not sure how the banks would check my status/determine that I was born in the US/previously American? I am a Canadian living in Canada. I look Canadian, sound like a Canadian, dress Canadian and speak both of Canada’s official languages. My bank has no idea where I’m from other than a small town in B.C.
I am seeking my CLN based on a previous relinquishing act in order to eliminate any financial risk. Once I receive it, I will have finalized a clean divorce from the US– nothing owed, just some hurt feelings about being forced out the door. Renouncing isn’t an option for me. This would be like volunteering for the nightmare divorce– give the ex the house, the car, the kids, the cash.
Now I have my CLN I’ve gone to my bank to put it in their records so my good Aussie bank won’t send my information off to the evil empire. To my surprise they were not totally astonished that I brought in a CLN, and had heard of FATCA although they weren’t up on the details. “I hear they’re trying to track everyone down”, the teller said. I guess even in Australia word is getting out.
They still didn’t really know what to do with it though, they wouldn’t take a copy but did put a note on the account that I am no longer a US citizen and had documentation. They said it was all they could do.
I have a savings account at another bank, however that one was opened using only my drivers license as ID, and I wasn’t asked anything about birthplace or citizenship. So I figured I’d be just as well off not giving them any ideas. 🙂
@BC_Doc, it just depends if they have any way of knowing you were American, i.e. did you use your American passport when opening the account or give an American birthplace as part of the info you provided. My Swiss banks knew because when I originally moved to the country I used my American passport to enter so was shown on my Swiss permit as being American and the banks always make a copy of permit/passport when opening accounts for non-Swiss clients.
Some of you might be interested to see these:
http://www.filedropper.com/bnpletters
@MediaFleacestealer: my local bank only knows that I moved to town from Quebec. If need be, I could carry on living beneath the radar. My plan, however, is to get the backdated CLN and be done. After two decades plus north of the 45th parallel, Canada is home. I support the notion of universal health care and affordable education. I like how Canada’s military role is limited to peace keeping. I don’t want a cent of my taxes going to pay for US military misadventures. I will never file taxes there so renouncing isn’t an option.
Ultimately, I believe the FATCA IGA will be tossed by the Supreme Court of Canada as a serial offender of Charter rights.
I am sorry to hear about the crap you went through with your local Swiss bank. This must have been terribly stressful.
I think we’ve officially gone off topic!
To all Brockers with Bank agendas:The moment I had my CLN I contacted the Swiss bank which had last year sent me the letter,letting me know I couldn’t keep my account as a US person.That letter from them was also the moment I realized I had no option but to renounce.The bank needed my CLN as proof I was no longer a US person,a copy of which I sent them immediately.The bank in return sent me papers to fill out and send back.And last week I was notified by phone that now all is ok.”They made my day” !There comes the OMG moment when we have no option.When no bank can afford to keep us if we are US persons.
If only it were always that easy. When I got my CLN I opened a new account at bank B as an Israeli citizen (only). When I attempted to have my US person status removed from my account a bank B I was refused. The account officer and the Manager both asserted that you can never become a non US person if you were born in the US despite what the CLN says.
I have appealed this with a complaint to the Bank Of Israel which is Israel’s equivalent of the Federal Reserve and which regulates banks. They have acknowledged receipt of my complaint but I have no idea how it will go from here. In the mean time I’m closing out my business at bank B and will close the accounts there as soon as possible.
Correction to my previous post, The bank I’m having a problem with is bank A which I opened an account with several years ago before I got my CLN but after the date I relinquished citizenship.
@Yitzi, “The account officer and the Manager both asserted that you can never become a non US person if you were born in the US despite what the CLN says.”
That is the problem because the way these IGA agreements are written!!
Shortly after your post, I called a telephone service center here in Europe to ask about account opening and was given information that was along your experience.
Moral of the story, if a bank thinks you are already non-US, let sleeping dogs lay!! Handing over a CLN to a bank that does not think you are US anyway is asking for trouble.
@George
You are 100% correct. To clarify I was attempting to change my status to non US Person at a bank that already had me in the status of a US Person.
The way Israeli identification works the TZ or national ID card states where you were born even if it were Israel. This document or a foreign passport is required to open an account.
@all
In my local vicinity no-one had even thought of how to deal with indisputably ex-US people – so everything is going to be reported if the one of the 6 symptoms of US-infection is indicated.
Basically, just because you have a CLN – it does NOT actually prove you exited the evil empire correctly does it? It’s too much to expect the banks to understand which CLN date confers a ‘proper exit’ status and which needed/needs an 8854 – especially as who needs what, appears to be a bit fuzzy in some cases.
I can only imagine the efficiency (or panic) of Swiss banks made them reach out – or maybe as early adopters, they made it up as they went along – but don’t assume the empire won’t learn and return later…
Even if you have renounced correctly – at least here – there will be no legal right to sue the bank, because governments will have changed the laws to make their action legal.
To be clear – I am thrilled about the prospect. I hope Canada will lead the charge in the right direction, you have force of numbers on your side.
@bc_doc – love the imagery!
@bc_doc are you planning to on completing the 2011 version form 8854 or just take get the CLN and run?
BTW not meaning to rain on anybody’s parade with my previous comments – I just don’t trust the SOBs
@Yitzi are you able to say which bank gave you the problem? Just curious as I worked for an Israeli bank until a few months ago.
@shunatra, may I suggest that when anyone talks of financial institions they use initials. Just sayin..
@ shunrata
Bank Discount was the problem bank. My daughter was at HaPoalim prior to getting her CLN and HaPoalim has a whole procedure for these cases, a couple of forms were completed, sent in for approval, returned approved about a week later and she is now only Israeli at HaPolim.
Myself, I had no problems opening an Israeli account at HaPolim with my CLN.
@nolongerauscitizen: I’ll take the CLN and run. As I’ll be out the door effective 2001, later forms/rules/regulations would be ex post facto and thus shouldn’t apply. I’m all for keeping it simple and avoiding bureaucrat designed make-work projects! Cheers, BC_Doc
Bc doc when I took my oath of allegience it was a family affair with lots of
Pictures. You should make a photo album of your unoath to the usa
@Yitzi
Interesting you should have the problem with Discount.
When I worked at Leumi they asked all to sign a W-8 Ben (declaration of non-US citizenship) and wouldn’t accept it with a US birthplace unless CLN was produced.
@nolongerauscitizen
But do they need to know how you exited? They just need to know if you are a US citizen or not as of July 1, 2014 which is when they have to give over the info. They’re not responsible for whether you left a debt to the IRS or not.
@shunrata, take a look at the IGA and read it slowly on the part of unambiguous place of birth. You have to read it several times before you get it.
Basically, a bank MUST report if there is a US place of birth. However, at the banks election and solely at the banks election, they can decide to cure that defect with a CLN but they are NOT required to cure that defect!!
The USA has gotten countries worldwide to report on anyone born in the USA irregardless if they have a CLN!!!!!
Thats the problem you guys have found in Israel and I got a verbal confirmation of that in London!