Consulate Report Directory (Brockers Describe their Consulate Meetings) and CLN Delivery Time Chart            Part 2

1,560 thoughts on “Consulate Report Directory (Brockers Describe their Consulate Meetings) and CLN Delivery Time Chart            Part 2”

1. Conratulations to the 3 new CLN receipients. One in our family received theirs a month ago. 3 others waiting.

2. I need to contact someone or be contacted by someone about changing something on my statement about my visit to the consulate – it is in the report incorrectly.

   How do I do this?

3. @Nomad, I just sent you an e-mail. Also to change a consulate report, a person can post the change as a comment or e-mail me at pacifica@isaacbrocksociety.ca

4. My daughter, who renounced in early August in Halifax, now has a CLN Five month wait.

5. My daughter, who renounced in early August in Halifax, now has a CLN four month wait.

6. @CanuckDoc

   Congrats to your daughter!

7. @Canuck Doc
   Happy to hear you daughter is now officially not an American any more . Time for you to celebrate with here. I am waiting for my CLN and will do my happy dance when I get it.

8. I’ve been reading this treasure trove of everyone’s long walk to freedom..

   I am wondering: Does it not put you in legal jeopardy by saying you haven’t filed tax returns for many years? I know it makes the case for relinquishment but it seems to be putting people at risk by saying so. For example, the account from the person who relinquished in Israel this year said he told a government officer that he hadn’t filed since immigrating in 2002. That is a long time…

9. Like everything else, it depends on whether you knowingly didn’t file or whether, like most of us, you never knew you needed to. The IRS has realised this, which is why it introduced it’s various OVD programs so those of us who weren’t actually trying to evade tax could get ourselves compliant. And it doesn’t make any case for relinquishment. It is a factor in determining your status for possible relinquishment, but it’s only one of many factors to be considered if the case for relinquishment is unclear.

10. Mark E,

    That is the absurdity — the bulk of us are not so-called ‘tax evaders or even avoiders (which is legal)’. We just did not know — and the US took no steps to educate the diaspora until now, when it is looking in every nook and cranny for funding. There is no way we can come into compliance without letting the US know that many of us have not filed for many years: for me, since 1975 when I became a Canadian citizen (and at the same time being warned by the US Consulate that I would be relinquishing my US citizenship — that’s the way it was back then and it WAS a warning!) Laws changed, but I didn’t check into US tax law. I took them at their word and I’ve lived in my life in Canada as a Canadian and raised my children in the country they were born, never registering them with the US. Unfortunately, it is not a claim to US citizenship that my being their mother gives them. It is automatic that they are deemed US citizens — no choice of their own just a take-over of two baby Canadians by the US. This is NOT about US taxes actually owed; it is about penalties for not having filed US returns and FBARs or the fear of making an expensive filing mistake. The US penalties are outrageous but with FATCA plus US Citizenship-Based Taxation it equals money from our countries turned over to the US. The US tax law and accounting professionals are the ones who benefit, rather than the US coffers being replenished with tax proceeds from so-called ‘US Persons Abroad.’

11. @Mark E, Yes and no.

    Around 2002 or so, the IRS personally told me that filing wasn’t a big deal as long as one owes nothing. Similar was said again around 2011 and there are various documents confirming such. However, in 2012 I was strongly recommended by the IRS to have filed the past 5 years. 2 of those 5 years I had not filed due to online filing difficulties, so I late-filed those two years and that was that. Not having filed is not a problem if one has no tax due. If the US demands taxes for those years not filed, then, well, that could be a problem. If one has not filed and the IRS requests filing, then such could be a problem too if one does not respond quickly.

    So, the Israelis is problably fine if there is no tax due, but it would be good to inquire with the IRS if any past-year filing is requested.

12. Thanks for those replies. This is a really great forum, glad I found it. The real first-hand accounts of people who have relinquished, and the comments from everyone, really starts shifting the balance of information at least a little in our favor.

13. SwissPinoy—in any case, whatever your situation with the IRS, it does not affect the right to renounce/relinquish because relinquishing is purely a State dept thing, as far as I know. So they can come after you for back taxes (unless you don’t owe anything) after you renounce but um, you’re overseas already..

14. @Mark E
    I came to Canada with my husband in 1969. We were permanent residents up to 1993 when we became citizens. We knew we were not going back to the USA to live, ever. Our sons were born here in Canada. We filed US taxes up to and including 1993. In 1982 we were sent a $2000 plus us tax refund. I called IRS and sent back the cheque registered mail as we had earned no US income since 1969. I did the US joint US income taxes myself. They were not difficult to do. We never owed anything to the IRS because we made far below the taxable amount. My last US tax return filed was year 1993. I thought that was it. 4 years later in 1998 I am dealing with my younger son and husband fighting terminal cancers. I am a widow who retired early in 2005. Still, grieving but quietly, now I have the stress of FATCA going after my husband’s outside in all kinds of weathe all shifts job pension and my pension where I worked all kinds of shifts. We were not rich fat cat tax evaders, just middle class. We did not even own a house. I put a down payment on one when my husband died. This past summer I went the US counsel to request my CLN backdated to 1993. That is my story. I am so outraged with the US government I will never go back to even visit. Senators Levin and Schumer think of me as a traitor and do not want me back. So be it.

15. Got my CLN today! I feel FREE!! Free from the molestation of USA. My daughter said I should hang the expired passport like a stag-horn on the wall. FYI my second interview was in Vancouver Sept. 6, the CLN was approved by the State Dept in DC on Oct 9. It took another three months to get here (why so slow?). 4.5 months total.

16. @kermitzii

    That is such good news….I would frame it… I should check for me…I id mine in July.

17. Actually 3.5 months total and two months from DC to Van (I cannot count on my fingers after 4 pm or maybe I am too excited) — I was told it would take 5 months so it seems they are speeding things up. They also send that dreaded form 8854 with instructions. I thought the state dept had nothing to do with the IRS. I know I am not covered (no exit tax).

18. Congratulations to you, kermitzii. I can feel your excitement in Calgary.

    I think those 8854 instructions may be only a Vancouver US Consulate thing — maybe they want their last word still.

19. @Mark E, no your tax status doesn’t affect your ability to relinquish/renounce. You can do it either before or after dealing with any tax issues. I renounced this year and started doing the necessary back filing and will complete this in early 2014. The problems you may find if you haven’t done the necessary filing are: should you owe tax and visit the States you could be made to pay up on the spot, be refused entry or even arrested for tax evasion depending on how serious they consider the situation to be. Remember once you’ve relinquished/renounced a copy of your CLN is sent to the IRS so they can check your tax compliance status. As more and more banks sign up to FATCA they want to know their clients are tax compliant. They will want a copy of your CLN for their records and may also require further proof that you’re tax compliant, otherwise you may find your accounts being closed. This is what is happening here in Switzerland now; banks are sending out letters advising their American clients to enter the OVDP if they’re not already compliant and asking for proof that they’ve done so. Considering that many banks here dropped Amercian clients, just because they were American, I have no doubt that if someone can’t or won’t provide proof they’ll find their accounts closed immediately.

    @kermitzii, congratulatons! Vancouver’s really getting streamlined. Go out and celebrate.

20. @Swiss Pinoy/Mark E/Calgari/Medea Fleecestealer and others,
    I was at the Israeli Embassy several weeks ago,intending to relinquish/renounce.(I still don’t understand if there’s a difference).In the form to fill out is a question about taxes:I wrote:not knowing about citizen based taxes I have never filed,but they are being prepared.However,my gut feeling was:”better file before renouncing”.The consul coudn’t advise me either and suggested I postpone the step until I’m sure. Was that wise of me or not?My gut,intuition said:wait.

21. @J.N., If that’s what feels right for you, then yes. Each person does things in a different way as each has different wants/needs in relation to renunciation and sorting out the tax issues.

22. @J.N., I became tax-compliant prior to renouncing. It probably doesn’t make a difference, but it might look a bit better to renounce/relinquish as a “compliant” person. Such could possibly support one’s argument that it wasn’t for tax purposes, since one didn’t have any tax issues upon renouncing.

23. Thanks for the report on your 90 year old mother’s renunciation, WhatAmI. I am so, so sorry your mother had to go through this process and I do hope that her renunciation will be approved — I’m pretty confident it would be, but what do I know.

    It is true that this decision is to be of a person’s own free will, that they are not to have been talked into it by anyone.

    What would my developmentally-delayed son’s experience be like — I can only imagine!! As I would have to try to attempt to “teach” him all about what citizenship is and why he might or might not want to retain his ‘automatically gifted’ US citizenship, that surely would not be of his own free will — as he really would not understand it all.

    As a side note, I recently had a comment from someone at an US expat advocacy group, which I won’t name:

    My reply:

    This is my response on your comment, “Just guessing, but for example, arguably someone who can take public transportation and go to a job every day would be competent enough to understand the concept of renunciation.” I don’t know your background to ascertain the capability of a person with a developmental disability to fully understand the concept of citizenship, the reasons to keep such citizenship or to renounce that citizenship. And, why should any of these persons have to be put through this? My son is able to take public transportation and go to a job every day with a whole lot of support from agencies in his city, in his province, in his country – the country in which he was born: Canada. My son knows that Canada is where his family lives, the same place he lives here. My son knows nothing of the US except that he has some relatives there who he can no longer cross the border to visit.

    I reiterate, this is the US immigration/nationality lawyer advice I paid for and got:

    DOS persons he talked with on an informal basis have “sympathy” for such cases. However, the developmentally disabled person will have to have FULL understanding of what he’s doing; if any question of lack of comprehension and grasping meaning and importance of ramifications, they could NOT approve such a case. From DOS point of view, US citizenship is precious and they have therefore established fundamental requirements for “compelling reason”. Even though there is the risk that a person’s financial resources could run out before his/her life was over, they will never approve a renunciation for financial / economic reasons. DOS has NEVER had such a renunciation case approved due to “compelling circumstances”. Bottom line: “compelling reason” in their regulations is not helpful to my son’s case. I could sue – persons he talked with at DOS are SURE no one would ever win such a case as the courts view the discretionary action that DOS has would take precedence.

    Your assumption is similar to this that I asked my Canadian government representatives:

    Is this the understanding of all Canadian MP’s about the RDSP – that it is ‘hardly likely that anyone disabled, with those types of disability benefits and assets and income would even have $50,000 in savings (the amount our Canadian banks are to search for in account information to be handed over to the US IRS) and thus would not be affected by FATCA reporting? If that is the case, then the purpose of the RDSP is misrepresented in all I’ve read it to be.

    I signed up as the Holder of my son’s Registered Disability Savings Plan at the inception of this CANADIAN REGISTERED PLAN and have been making the maximum monthly payments to receive the Canadian grant and bond — this is for my son’s benefit should the Alberta Assured Income for Severely Handicapped go belly up for any reason. Actually, making this $125 monthly contribution has precedence before all of my other monthly expenses. That is the value that I put on using the RDSP, a Canadian savings vehicle; it gives me some peace of mind that there will be adequate funds for my son to be looked after — after I am no longer here. The greatest fear of parents of a child with a disability: that their child will not be looked after OK when they are gone.

    I hold the RDSP account for my son and the balance is a hair under $50,000 and growing — he will be the beneficiary at the earliest age 62. When I am gone and the sale of my house, my RRSP is what I will leave my two children, that ‘inheritance’ will deem my son no longer eligible to receive provincial AISH. I believe it is part of the responsibility I have for my son to see that his needs are met when I am gone, and a lot of that need comes under “financial.” He will have greater expenses and less income than will my able daughter.
    From the statement above, does this MP’s office and do other MPs maintain, then, that anyone with a disability must live in relative poverty, that their Parent, their Guardian, their Trustee should not responsibly take advantage of this Canadian Registered Disability Savings Plan, especially if a supposed ‘US Person’?

    I did get an apology that I was now better understood (and I wasn’t asking anything for my son BUT on behalf of all like my son). In reality ASSUMPTIONS ARE A DIME A DOZEN.

24. My 90-year-old mother renounced in Calgary on Thursday, December 12, 2013. Here is a report for the archive.

    A couple of issues that I don’t recall being mentioned in other reports. She is 90, and uses a walker or wheelchair. My brother dropped us off with the wheelchair at the front door and went to park. I was concerned about finding a pay phone afterwards to call him (pay phones seem rare these days) but there are two pay phones right in the lobby/hallway area outside the consulate security office on the main floor.

    The website says a helper is allowed in with elderly or disabled people. I figured I’d be allowed in, but I wasn’t sure what they would do about the wheelchair. Maybe they would transfer her to one of their own?

    They asked if she could walk at all, like, 50 steps or just 5, for example? She can’t go far (broke a hip some years ago) so they said they would have to phone upstairs for special permission, etc. Once approved, we went up to the 10th floor through the second round of airport-like security. They swabbed all over the wheelchair with a little strip and inserted it into an analysis machine, much like airports do with your laptop keyboard.

    We had arrived a little over an hour early. Once upstairs they put us straight into one of the cubicles with the thick glass window, so her interview started about 35 minutes before our scheduled time. It’s a good thing that I was allowed with her, since she couldn’t hear a word the interviewer said (until the question below). As it was, I leaned my ear to the slot under the window to hear better.

    They were all very nice, and rather than sending her from the interview wicket to the cashier wicket to pay the $450 and move back again, we got to stay in one place and they shuttled their staff back and forth from their side.

    The interviewer was very nice, but then towards the end of the interview the guy’s tone suddenly changed and in a much louder and stern voice with furled brows he said “TELL ME WHY YOU WANT TO RENOUNCE!”. It was totally unexpected. I’m sure we both recoiled back in our chairs.

    Many people ask on the IBS website whether they should make the “optional” statement about their reason for renunciation. There has been of course many different opinions. We indicated “No” on the questionnaire that the Calgary consulate sends out. Yet, he asked anyway. I wanted to question why he asked when she indicated “No”, but I didn’t. I wonder now if it’s a trick question, to ferret out people who might have something to hide? Or maybe it’s a poorly-worded question that simply means to ask if you want to make a written statement as opposed to verbal statement?

    The sudden sternness of the question visibly upset my my mother, who was nervous enough as it was. She started out with the level of nervousness that she would have in an appointment with a bank manager, or insurance or pension administrator, which is already noticeable. My mother clammed up for what seemed like an eternity before she could speak again.

    I assume it was standard procedure when he asked me to leave so he could talk to her in private. He asked her if she was renouncing under her own free will or if she was being coerced by anybody, etc. I hope he didn’t misinterpret her reaction to the startling tone of the question about her reason for renouncing.

    After our experience, I will recommend to my friends and family going to the Calgary office to say “Yes” and put it in writing, and just repeat what you’ve written if asked verbally.

    In case there are people here on IBS who believe that although relinquishment claims are decided in Washington DC, renunciations are a done deal once performed in the consulate. Not so. At the beginning of the interview, they made it very clear that renunciations, although eventually dated from the date of the interview, are not decided until reviewed by the DoS in Washington. They also later pointed to a paragraph on one of the signed statements that repeated this fact.

    Now we get to wait 3 to 4 months to hear the results.

25. @WhatAmI
    Congratulations to your mother. And you are a great child for helping her. I would have been startled as well. I am 75 percent deaf, and loud speech startles me.
    Now have a nice holiday and go out and celebrate..

    @Calgary411
    I feel your concern for your son and you are always on guard for him and protective. You are a great mother. It is so good you are so articulate that you can politely explain your son’s disabilities and get the one who is critical to understand and apologize. You are a wonderful defender. You are St Christina’s earth rep.