Consulate Report Directory (Brockers Describe their Consulate Meetings) and CLN Delivery Time Chart Part 2
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Wonder what really happens at the consulates? Find out in the Isaac Brock Society’s Consulate Report Directory, currently 279 pages of first-hand accounts of renunciation/relinquishment appointments, arranged by consulate location, along with further information and links to the required Dept of State forms and the Dept of State manuals used by the consulates in processing CLN applications, with an appendix containing a timeline chart (booking-meeting-CLN) as reported by consulate location.
The Directory is updated as consulate visit stories are posted on the website.
You can post here or elsewhere on the site (we’ll keep an eye out for them). Some comments may be excerpted or condensed slightly in the consulate reports. The original posts and comments remain on their threads are not edited.
Thanks to everyone for sharing your experiences…and keep ’em coming! It’s a new experience for everyone and your information is really helpful.
To change or delete your report in the Directory, you can post the change as a comment on this thread or e-mail Pacifica@isaacbrocksociety.ca
Click here for the Consulate Report Directory
Notes:
Consulates are listed alphabetically by country and the Directory’s table of contents links to each section (they don’t look like links, but they are.)
This thread is a continuation of Consulate Report Directory Part 1, which contains earlier discussion on this topic, 929 comments from its inception in March 2012 through February 2013.
To Book an Appointment and/or Request Information from your Local Consulate:
This post by Eric, Almost No US Citizenship Renunciation Appointments Left During 2016 in Dublin, contains a chart of links to the consulates’ website pages on renunciation/relinquishment, for info on booking appointments and/or requesting information at your location. (The title highlights Dublin, but the charts, article and discussion cover consulates around the world.)
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Completed renunciation in Calgary, Canada recently. I applied in January 2022, so about 14 months wait time. There was an email notifying of the appointment about 2 months in advance of appointment.
Foreword: Generally the experience was fine. I didn’t feel pressured by anyone to explain myself or my reasons in any great detail. When asked I gave a vague reason for why I was renouncing. I was basically a citizen by a technicality, I had never received any benefit from being a citizen, I never had need of it and just wanted to simplify my life. They accepted that answer with ease. The frustrating part was that the officer asked me why I was renouncing and said that it wasn’t a test but that they simply want to understand why people are renouncing and track the reasons. When I was told this I desperately wanted to explain in depth the issues that US citizens face when living outside of the US and try to bring awareness. But the worry of getting denied my CLN got the better of me and I gave the simple answer that I said above.
As far as the rest of my experience:
I arrived and smoothly got through security and up to the area where they process all US citizen related items. I was actually talking with the clerks before my scheduled appointment. All the staff were nice, they took my forms and verified my documents, took payment (still cost $2350 USD, which I was hoping would have been reduced by now but w/e). I paid in cash because I was paranoid of the credit card systems not working the day of. Then I was given the DS-4080 and 4081 forms to read over and ensure that I wanted to go through with this. Kind of a funny way to do it – make me pay then ask if I truly want to do it or not.
I did get a chuckle out of the line “Upon renouncing/relinquishing my U.S. nationality, I will no longer be able to transmit U.S. nationality to my children born subsequent to this act.” Uh, yeah that’s the idea.
Of course I had already done thorough research and didn’t take this decision lightly, so I was immediately ready to take the oath and sign the documents. I ended up waiting about an hour before my turn with the consular officer. He highlighted two specific notes on the forms. The first was to make sure that I was doing this willingly and not under duress. The second was to ensure that I was aware that I could still be taxed by the U.S if I received gifts or inheritances from US citizens and that I should seek tax advice before making any tax decisions. There was nothing else about that, no scare tactics, he was very friendly actually and seemed understanding. If I didn’t feel this was necessary, I wouldn’t do it. So it was nice to not be guilted by the staff.
I had to read the oath out loud to the officer – a bit awkward since we weren’t in a fully private room so everyone in the waiting area could hear that I was renouncing my citizenship. The officer said that the final decision will be made in Washington, but that it was essentially a formality at this point. I was told that it would be 4-6 weeks for my CLN to arrive. After that, we signed the documents, I received a receipt and walked out of there. Biggest sigh of relief as I walked out of the building. It’s been a long time coming.
I noticed 2 other people in the consulate that were there for renunciations. It took me 2 hours of total time to complete my appointment. If you do the math they could be doing 10-12 renunciations per day. Pretty insane that they aren’t more seriously asking why people are doing this.
I received my CLN about 6 weeks later. Woohoo!
Tips:
– Come prepared with all your documents and it will go smooth.
– They take your phone away from you in security, so don’t plan to look anything up while you’re in there. You need to have everything printed and at your fingertips.
– They tell you to bring in the DS-4081, but they ended up supplying this document with the official seal on it. I guess it’s good to have a back up in case their systems are having issues and they can’t print one?
They cannot deny you a renunciation/CLN unless they’re convinced you’re either acting under duress or don’t really understand what you’re doing. Good to hear it all went smoothly for you.
They can deny you if they think you’re avoiding taxation. And its difficult to explain concisely how the taxation effects my retirement planning and other financial aspects of my life without potentially raising that red flag for them.
Back on the late 70’s I went to the US consulate in Calgary to make sure I was no longer a US citizen by virtue of some expatriating acts (voting, working for a government branch). The fellow was flabbergasted. “Why don’t you want to be an American??? _Everybody_ wants to be an American. Everybody _should_ be an American!”
Thirty five years later I still had to renounce, but it was free at the time. I had no convincing documentation so it was complicated and took a very long time back and forth with Washington. I was on a first name basis with the clerk handling my file. When it was finally approved, she was almost as excited as I was.
@JRidge,
Congratulations! I’m glad it went smoothly (it usually does, but even then, I know from experience the relief (and joy) when you physically get that CLN in your hand). Thank you very much for your detailed report. I’ll add it to the Consulate Report Directory.
JRidge: Why jeopardize your goal just to make a point they are by now well aware of? A friend who renounced the same year I did, also in Canada. She simply said, “I am not in agreement with the policies of the US government.” Congratulations. For those who choose to take this step, it is a great relief to have it over and done.
@JRidge
Actually they cannot deny you if your reason is tax avoidance or evasion, as far as I know. They can only deny renunciation for reasons of suspected coercion or mental incompetence. If it is later deemed that a person renounced to avoid/evade US tax obligations, they could in theory be denied admission under the as-yet-unenforced Reed Amendment. That being said, it’s obviously silly to make a big statement about US taxes when you renounce. You’re buying a CLN, don’t mess things up. Consular officials know full well that “simplify my life” is everybody’s code phrase for “no more US tax obligations.”
The only thing said to me on the subject of taxes by the consular official was that past tax debts (or filing obligations in the case of scofflaws such as myself who never filed) did not magically go away. I was not reminded of any requirement to file Form 8854 or certify five years’ past compliance etc. (Which I never did.)
The fun thing about doing it in the open where everyone can hear you is that you can parrot the speech of the person who went before you, and give the exact same reason.
A comment from Richard (originally posted on a FATCA thread; moving it manually as the “move” function isn’t working properly:
“Richard says
February 13, 2024 at 8:29 pm
Well I finally did it. Today I renounced my U.S. citizenship at the U.S. consulate in Toronto. There’s some regret, but mostly relief. It took more than a year and a half to get the appointment plus $3144 CAD. A lot of money for me as an eighty year old pensioner, but It just had to be done.”
A comment from Portland (originally posted on a FATCA thread; moving it manually as the “move” function isn’t working properly:
“Portland says
February 13, 2024 at 10:08 pm
Well done. Should be a relief. Hope you dont feel the need to file anything else.
This site is awfully quiet these days”
A comment from Ron Henderson (originally posted on a FATCA thread; moving it manually as the “move” function isn’t working properly):
“Ron Henderson says
February 18, 2024 at 2.43 am
@Richard
Curious as to why you did it at this stage in your life? Where you concerned about US tax obligations for the executor of your will, or potential estate planning issues?”