Banking Issues
Please provide information or ask questions about Banking issues in this comment stream.
I will create sub-topic threads as the situation arises, keeping a copy of the comment that starts a legnthy specific discussion on the Banking Issues thread, so the Banking Issues thread will remain the main source for banking information and dicsusion. But sub-topic threads should help people easily find (or avoid, if it doesn’t interest them) detailed information and conversation on specific matters.
Sub-topic Threads:
Problems with Banks After Renunciation
@ Ron Henderson,
Thank you. The child who files has disclosed his US citizenship to his employer, because it is a significant factor for his job. Therefore, the FI that holds his pension (presently his biggest asset) knows. This is but one more “disclosure trap”.
@Duchesse
Your child who files has only two choices, realistically: continue filing forever, or renounce. If they are wealthy enough that renunciation would incur an exit tax, they could
avoidevade that by not filing Form 8854 after renouncing.I was wondering how one could open up a bank account in France or Switzerland with a US birthplace. I have citizenship in France (EU) Switzerland USA and Canada.
I have heard most banks won’t allow US born clients to get bank account. I am under the radar for IRS so don’t want to disclose any info to them. I noticed that only place of birth is on EU passport but not country so maybe pretend the place is in Canada?
Banks in Canada don’t ask for ID with birthplace.
The problem is often that a place of birth is on the ID card required in order to open the account. There are still some banks and financial institutions that won’t have Americans but plenty that will, so basic banking should not be an issue.
If my US place of birth also happened to be a place in Canada and I have A Canadian passport, I know what I would do.
Incidentally, I would not worry even if I was on the IRS radar, what are they going to do when they have pretty much zero information and no ability to enforce a damned thing?
The idiot Yanks, after causing global mayhem and hundreds of billions in costs have just realised they have created a massive database of complete crap on other nations residents and citizens who likely don’t owe, can’t be made to file or pay and in which real US tax evaders can just lay low, a needle in a truly massive US made haystack.
So they have not allocated any budget to processing it.
As John Richardson frequently says, you could not make this up because nobody would believe it.
Its such a silly situation we are in. I was less than 1 when I left USA and never went back lived worked or studied there so its absurd that I should fill out income tax forms for them. But the canadian passport clearly has country of birth on it but not the EU passport which surprised me.
I guess if there is no country of birth on the id card then you could tell the bank anything. My understanding is that very few banks would deal with US place of birth people in France and likely elsewhere in Europe.
@Johnny
The practical solution to avoiding FATCA reporting and opening a bank account: use whatever combination of IDs works to convince banks that you were born in Canada, then fail to disclose your US citizenship when asked.
The bombproof solution to the same problem: spend $2,350 to renounce US citizenship, then show your CLN to any bank that asks; not that you do not need to be caught up on US tax filings first, you can simply renounce and continue ignoring the IRS.
Any bank recommendations for Belgium?
I’ve just been frozen by a bank here (unfrozen until June 1 after I gave them a piece of my mind) because I didn’t give up my SSN (which I have, and will reluctantly have to give up, perhaps with a typo).
One lesson had learned for myself, but had forgotten when I started my company (LLC) : always have several banks. Now my company is stuck at one bank and when they froze everything I was helpless. That’s never going to happen to me again.
I realize all banks are basically greedy businesses, but they don’t all act the same in all circumstances; thus my advice is have several accounts.
Any experience with the Federal Credit Union as a bank to open a US account ?
Thanks and cheers to all
If you need a basic, purely online US dollar account with a US routing number, use Wise.
Has anyone renounced and then informed their bank that they are no longer a US person? How should I go about doing that? I just got my CLN and want to make sure the bank stops sending any of my info to the IRS!
@JRidge
I would call the bank first, it’s possible you can do this all over the phone, or at very least if they want to see your CLN they’ll let you know where to send a copy or if you need to appear in person somewhere.
I never dealt with this because I never disclosed US citizenship to any financial institutions. Around 2015 I noticed that any time I dealt with the bank they would want to “update our customer records” and snuck that question into the mix. I glanced at the monitor and it looked like they’d just added some data fields to the standard customer profile. It would be a simple matter now of going in and unchecking a box that had previously been checked. How long it would take for that to work its way through the system to stop FATCA reporting is another question, but really not that big a deal. By 2026 you would be able to ask CRA if any of your 2024 data was improperly shared.
Hi, I am a dual USA (passport holder) and Australian (passport holder ) citizen. Not entitled to SocSec due to just 2 years worked .in the USA. Been in Australia for over 50 years. Been working for NSW Health, Au, as an RN for 45 years.
Recently became compliant with Filing to IRS. I have a Super Annuation acct . Married to a UK citizen . Zero assets in the USA. Ive been “advised ” to consider Renouncing so that I don’t have to continue lodging to the IRS. Auckland NZ could be where I renounce (they have short waitlist). However, i may want to spend my retirement in the USA as an Aussie….but would need a Green Card. Also, I could “fail” the renouncement interview if they sense Im avoiding the tedious, costly, yearly IRS filing. Capital gains tax (on Sydney house) is my biggest fear !
@ Lou,
The renunciation appointment is not a probing interview. At most embassies/consulates (not sure if at all of them), you send in your forms in advance, and if they have any questions, they’ll ask you to clarify. They generally don’t have any.
It’s a person’s right to renounce, so all the vice-consul at the interview has to ascertain is that the person is competent, acting voluntarily, and that they understand the consequences of renunciation. Competence and voluntariness are presumed, unless a person’s statements or behaviour indicate otherwise. No one reporting here has reported that happening. Consequences are listed in form DS-4081, Statement of Understanding of Consequences, which is generally filled out and sent in in advance and always signed at the embassy/consulate. http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/department-of-state-forms-and-procedure-manuals-for-renouncingrelinquishing/
Regarding tax, the ability to renounce and the validity of one’s CLN is not dependent on tax compliance. One should by law, comply with the tax filing requirement, but some people choose not to and, to date, none have reported here having heard anything from IRS (can’t predict the future, of course, but so far, since 2011, no problems). This might be important, though, if you apply for a green card — I don’t know anything about that (hope someone else can weigh in on it). You are in the system, as you’ve filed US tax recently, but to date it seems IRS hasn’t been following up post-renunciation, although the they are notified of each CLN issued. Overseas collection, if the person is unwilling to comply, is a major hassle for them, so they tend to go after big fish who have the $$$ to make it worth it and ignore the minnows (just my observations as a layperson).
By law, one should file the 8854 and doing so clearly wraps things up with IRS, but some people’s fact sets are such that they feel it pretty irrelevant and they feel it would complicate their life more to do so, so they don’t. When it comes to filing, I always suggest a person read up, think about it/mull it over, and make the decision they feel most comfortable with. In either scenario, the CLN remains valid and the citizenship itself is terminated.
I made an information sheet with links to sources, entitled Interactions Between the Dept of State and the Internal Revenue Service. http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/renunciationrelinquishment-interactions-between-department-of-state-and-the-internal-revenue-service/
Also, you can read about people’s renunciation experiences in the Consulate Report Directory. http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/consulate2/
It’s not at all clear what you mean. I imagine that if you want to retire to the US, it would be advantageous to keep your US citizenship. Have you thought this through. I assume you haven’t lived there for 50 years! It wont be the same place as when you left. Medical expenses alone could potentially cripple you financially.
If you were to renounce, there is no chance you could ‘fail’ the interview. My wife and son both renounced with no questions asked. ( The consuls know full well what’s going on). It’s a shame you became compliant if you renounce. You could have ignored all tax filing BS.
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