Many responses, but only a few have tried to answer this question:
What do you speculate is the percentage of Canadian citizens, resident in Canada, who are deemed by the United States to be U.S. citizens who:
— have NO meaningful relationship with the United States (e.g., no passport [unless demanded by U.S. border guard], no U.S. voting, no IRS filing, consider themselves only to be Canadians and not Americans) and do not want to be an American)
Most readers won’t speculate, but Portland (below) speculates that that percentage is around 85%, a very large percentage.
Is that percentage likely to be correct? No? 5% is a better estimate?
Remember, I am not a legal expert and this has not been tested with the DOS. I suspect it would be quite a battle and may not succeed.
If what I infer is correct, he has already relinquished and there was/is no requirement for a CLN for a relinquishment to occur. In Canada you can self certify and if there are no banking problems or significant U.S. connections, self certification might be fine.
If I was going to proceed with this I would get a legal opinion that in his situation he did relinquishment naquis have and has the proper documentation.
Since he has no connections with the U.S. he will not do anything but good to know if something changes.
I think that sounds good. What a mess, eh?
Do know where this belongs but worthy of mention. The conservative party of Canada ,in one of their preelection resolutions for their platform voted against birthright citzenship today.
@John
Do you have a link or source for your statement
“John says
August 25, 2018 at 1:10 am
Certifice of Registration of Birth Abroad
To the person whom this certificate of has been issued is hereby issued is hereby warned that he will cease to be a Canadian citizen at the age of twenty-four years unless he has “Place of Domicile” in Canada at that age, or has before attaining age twenty-four and after attaining age twenty-one filed a declaration of retention of Cansdian Citizenship Ottawa, Canada
My brother did file a declaration before he went to University in a nother country (not the U.S.) He has not tried to get a cln just say never going to U.S.”
@Cheryl
Those words look similar to what is printed on the back of my certificate issued in 1966. I’m out of town so I can’t check the exact wording.
Interesting. When you get home, could you send a copy of the entire statement. I lost my certificate and was unaware of that statement. Thanks.
@Cheryl, if all goes well I might not be home until October so I got my daughter to send me a photo of the backside. On the front it says “Form CR 315”. My certificate was issued in Feb 1967. The back says:
Important Notice
Section 5 of the Canadian Citizenship Act provides that a person born outside of Canada after January 1, 1947, shall cease to be a Canadian citizen upon the date of the expiration of three years after the date on which he attains the age of 21 years unless he:
(a) has his PLACE OF DOMICILE in Canada at such date; or
(b) has, before such date and after attaining the age of 21 years, filed a Declaration of Retention of Canadian Citizenship with the Registrar of Canadian Citizenship, Ottawa, Canada.
“PLACE OF DOMICILE” means the place in which a person has his home or in which he resides or to which he returns as his place of permanent abode and does not mean a place in which he stays for a mere special or temporary purpose.
One thing I never sorted out, and don’t need to, is that somewhere I read that in the 1950’s when my sister and I were born, a parent must have registered a birth abroad before the child reached the age of two years. However, my mother did the paperwork right at the border when we drove into Canada in the fall of 1966. I was 12.
Thanks so much for taking the time to do this.
S.5 states “the fact of his birth is registered at a consulate or with the Minister, within two years after its occurrence OR WITHIN SUCH EXTENDED PERIOD AS MAY BE AUTHORIZED IN SPECIAL CASES BY THE MINISTER, in accordance with the regulations.”
In the end they allowed registration to occur up until Aug 14, 2004.
@Cheryl, you’re welcome and thanks for your info too!
I watched the long video of John Richardson and Solomon Yue discussing TTFI and also found some details elsewhere, and was totally disappointed to learn that TTFI is really just for Americans who want to retain US citizenship and legally not file from abroad.
Accidental Americans who have never filed or had any ties to the US would have to file 3 years of tax compliance to qualify for TTFI just to be able to legally continue to ignore US taxes. Ridiculous. Not good enough for AAs. Even Obama’s last Green Book budget had proposed relief for AAs who wanted totally out (because they were never even partially in).
I wonder if this is why Stephen Kish is asking the question in this thread?
@WhatAmI
Yup. TTFI is a good thing for a subset of non-resident US citizens, and maybe a good thing if it’s a crack in the wall of CBT (or not, if it’s perceived as having solved the problem). But it’s useless if it doesn’t solve FATCA problems in those countries with restrictive banking rules.
Otherwise AAs should either ignore it and continue with non-compliance (my plan) if they don’t have FATCA problems, or renounce without filing if they need a CLN to wave at their banks.
I haven’t seen it explained anywhere, but I can imagine foreign Banks demanding to see a client’s ttfi clearance document or else reporting them under fatca. Is that really going to be enough for foreign Banks to start taking US clients again? It doesn’t seem to me to be much of a simplification for the banks.
Indeed.
US citizens are a risk to banks because they can> make use of the US money system as if resident in the US – not because they’re obliged to.
Renunciation is the solution to FATCA; residence countries need to develop administrative procedures to recognise and document the individual’s self-renunciation of US citizenship – for free – and stamp it in the passport.
Indeed.
US citizens are a risk to banks because they can make use of the US money system as if they were resident in the US – not because they’re obliged to.
Renunciation is the solution to FATCA. Residence countries need to develop administrative procedures to recognise and document the individual’s self-renunciation of US citizenship – for free – and stamp it in the passport. Thus giving the bank the certainty they need for FATCA due diligence.
I will speculate that approximately 30-35% of Canadian citizens/residents that the USA deems to be US citizens do not have, want or accept any meaningful relationship with the USA.
I myself am in this group, and I personally know three others. I know (I think!) about others in this group from Brock (ex. Gwen, Ginny, WhiteKat etc.).
However, it is still my impression that the majority of US born Canadian citizens/residents grew up in the USA and came to Canada as (often young) adults. To me, growing up in the USA almost always results in a lifelong meaningful relationship. My parents know/have known a number of people in this group (some have renounced). Many on Brock are in this group. I suspect that Canadian universities may have a higher percentage of US born people than the Canadian population in general – most or almost all came to Canada as young American PhD’s. And of course people migrate, and American adults in all walks of life have ended up in Canada.