Many responses, but only a few have tried to answer this question:
What do you speculate is the percentage of Canadian citizens, resident in Canada, who are deemed by the United States to be U.S. citizens who:
— have NO meaningful relationship with the United States (e.g., no passport [unless demanded by U.S. border guard], no U.S. voting, no IRS filing, consider themselves only to be Canadians and not Americans) and do not want to be an American)
Most readers won’t speculate, but Portland (below) speculates that that percentage is around 85%, a very large percentage.
Is that percentage likely to be correct? No? 5% is a better estimate?
This again brings up a part of the 1946 ACT which I believe the DOS may not be aware.
The citizenship conferred to a child registered by their parent was not permanent. It required before Feb 15, 1977 that the child in adulthood assert the retention of their Canadian citizenship or ithe citizenship would be lost.
The first way to assert the retention of citizenship was to make a declaration of retention to the Government of Canada. I’m not sure how many did this but it would seem to be an expatriating act in its own right and if performed with intent a relinquishment should be accepted.
The second way was simply to be resident in Canada on their 24th birthday. This is more difficult but as an action in adulthood of a two-part application to citizenship, I wonder if it would be consistent with relinquishment.
I think that staying under the radar and refusing to accept forced citizenship for this person you know is a very reasonable and just choice.
“I believe that the Supreme Court did not disallow Congress to determine what are expatriating acts, they simply said that such acts only result in expatriation if there was intent on the part of the individual.”
Congress used to be able to strip non-citizen nationals of US nationality without US non-citizen nationals taking any action or having any intent. The 14th Amendment doesn’t address this matter. I think the US Supreme Court addressed this matter in Afroyim v. Rusk, though I think it’s because the Supreme Court forgot about the existence of non-citizen nationals, and I’m not sure if Congress still has that power. As far as I can tell, a non-citizen national can’t relinquish US nationality by their own intent unless they first acquire US citizenship.
You mean like from Puerto Rico etc. I really don’t know anything about that.
People born in Puerto Rico are US citizens.
People born in American Samoa are US non-citizen nationals.
People born in the Philippines under US sovereignty were US non-citizen nationals who were treated as aliens for the purpose of immigration but otherwise were treated as non-citizen nationals. In 1946 they were stripped of non-citizen nationality. I think Afroyim v. Rusk reinstated their status as non-citizen nationals who were treated as aliens for the purpose of immigration.
I think people born in Okinawa under US sovereignty had to be US non-citizen nationals and I think they had to be allowed to enter the US without needing visas, but I haven’t studied that as much. Again I think Afroyim v. Rusk reinstated their status as non-citizen nationals.
Certifice of Registration of Birth Abroad
To the person whom this certificate of has been issued is hereby issued is hereby warned that he will cease to be a Canadian citizen at the age of twenty-four years unless he has “Place of Domicile” in Canada at that age, or has before attaining age twenty-four and after attaining age twenty-one filed a declaration of retention of Cansdian Citizenship Ottawa, Canada
My brother did file a declaration before he went to University in a nother country (not the U.S.) He has not tried to get a cln just say never going to U.S.
U.S. law INA 350 states
A person who acquired at birth the nationality of the United States and a foreign state and who has voluntarily sought or claimed benefits of the nationality of any foreign state shall LOSE his United States nationality byhereafter having a continuous residence for 3 years in the foreign state of which he is a national by birth at any time after attaining the age of twenty-two years unless he shall (1) prior to the expiration of such three-year period,take an oath of allegiance to the United States before a United States diplomatic or consular officer in a manner prescribrd by the Secretary of State.
The U.S. on October 10,1978 passed Public Law 95-432 which repealed INA 350 effective that date. From what I understand Public Law 95-432 did not restore anyone who lost citizenship under section INA 350 prior to October 10, 1978
“From what I understand Public Law 95-432 did not restore anyone who lost citizenship under section INA 350 prior to October 10, 1978”
Right, Congress didn’t do that but the US Supreme Court did.
@John
“My brother did file a declaration before he went to University in a nother country (not the U.S.) He has not tried to get a cln just say never going to U.S.”
Firstly your brother was conferred citizenship “after birth” and it was made retroactive to birth. Secondly, it seems to me as he would have lost his Canadian citizenship if he had not made his declaration of retention, his declaration was the act of becoming a full and permanent citizen of Canada would be a potential expatriating act and if he did it with the intent of losing U.S. cituzenship was an expatriating act. However, I think the DOS would fight this tooth and nail. They did demonstrate in my case that in the end they will acknowledge the law if it is demonstrated with the backing of a Citizenship and Immigration Canada ruling.
“From what I understand Public Law 95-432 did not restore anyone who lost citizenship under section INA 350 prior to October 10, 1978”
I assume your brother was registered by a parent after birth. His citizenship was conferred after birth and bade retroactive to birth
When I made my S.350 application for a CLN the DOS denied it but did not state that S. 350 was not applicable and made no mention of how intent would be determined. I do not know how they would rule on the intent issue or the registered individual who became a full Canadian by being a resident in Canada on their 24th birthday.
In terms of S. 350, I don’t know how they would view his citizenship “at birth” as it was not automatic.
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Was it not automatic once your parents registered your birth? The baby got a Certifice of Birth Abroad
My wife registered our childrens birth after they were born not before they were born in Canada
It was not automatic if the birth was registered prior to Feb 15, 1977 AND the child made a declaration of retention between their 21st and 24th birthday or was resident in Canada on their 24th birthday if that birthday occurred before Feb 15, 1977.
Amendments to the Canada Citizenship Act effective Feb 15, 1977 removed the requirement for retention for any that had not declared their desire for retention and who were not 24 when the amendments came into effect.
I strongly believe that the DOS is unaware of S. 6 of the 1946 Canada Citizenship ACT effective Feb 15, 1977 and that this may be a potential expatriating act.
I have recently discussed these issues in comments in the Renunciation and Relinquishment thread and it has also been posted in the sidebar under How To Renounce.
One of the reasons that the Citizenship act was amended in 2009 was to alleviate issues like this.
A good overview of the problems is discussed in The 2007 Parliamentary Committee Report RECLAIMING CITIZENSHIP FOR CANADIANS — A REPORT ON THE LOSS OF CANADIAN CITIZENSHIP clarifies the retention requirement and changes made in the 1977 amendments to the 1946 ACT.
The report stated, “People who otherwise would have been subject to the requirement but had not yet turned 24 when the Act came into force, were relieved from complying.[17] However, those born earlier who had failed to retain, and did not reside in the country on their 24th birthday, LOST THEIR CANADIAN CITIZENSHIP.”
I’m not sure when your children were born. After Feb 15, 1977 Registration of a Birth Abroad was no longer required; simply a request for a Certificate of Canadian Citizenship.
My kids were born in canada but for birth certificate forms are filled out after birth
So are you concerned because you or your wife were U.S. citizens when your children were born in Canada and wondering if they are considered U.S citizens as well? That is a different issue.
Were you not a Canadian untill you lost your Canadian Citizenship?
I don’t think I understand. I became a Canadian when I registered my own birth abroad as an adult in 1977. I lost my U.S. citizenship as a consequence. The DOS has now acknowledged my relinquishment and given me a CLN back dated to Feb 14, 1977.
I am just trying to see why when you were registered you were not considered a canadian at birth
My wife was born in the Dominican Republic. After our children were born I learned that they both hold Dominican nationality by birth. SeeArticle 18 of the Constitution of 2015
http://www.senado.gob.do/senado/OAI/Constitucion.aspx
It goes on forever, as my children being Dominicans, that means their children will be Dominicans, and so on. Since only one parent has to hold Dominican citizenship to transfer it outside Dominicana to the children, eventually half the world will hold Dominican nationality.
I was not a Canadian citizen even though my father was Canadian when I was born. When I registered my birth abroad I was conferred citizenship AFTER BIRTH which was then made retroactive to birth by the Government of Canada.
This was important for my relinquishment if U.S. citizenship. The 1952 INA defines naturalization as “the conferring of nationality of a state upon a person after birth, by any means whatsoever.”
If I was automatically a citizen of Canada at birth it would not have been an act of naturalization and therefore not a potential expatriating act.
After Feb 14, 1977 it is my understanding that being born to parent born in Canada automatically confers Canadian citizenshipCanadian on the child.
Does that help?
Fro your brother who made a declaration of retention, he would have lost his Canadian citizenship if he was 24 years old on Feb 15, 1977 and had not declared his retention. Thus would have been true until the Canada Citizenship Act was changed in 2009 where he would retroactively have been given Canadian citizenship. However the changes in 1977 did not affect his citizenship because he was already registered and had made the declaration of retention.
It’s complicated but important, I believe.
Correction, I should have said if he was 24 on Feb 14, 1977.
yes that helps from what you say he should be able to relinquish his U.S. citizenship
He was older than 24 in 1977