Greg Swanson of PurpleExpat.org created a change.org petition to abolish “citizenship-based taxation”. You can still sign it. But, as it stands only 700 people in the whole wide world – even though they have nothing to lose – signed this petition. The problem is not the effectiveness of the petition. The problem is that Americans abroad as a group will not stand up for themselves.
Jackie Bugnion (formerly of ACA and a well respected American overseas) requested that this petition be shared. Hopefully there will be a sufficient number of Americans overseas who will sign it. #FATCA #TTFI https://t.co/uUIAor9D9Z
— Keith REDMOND (@Keith__REDMOND) June 19, 2018
Mr. Swanson published an interesting post where he summarized the comments and added some additional commentary.
The comments include:
C from Baronissi, SA,
“I am a professor of medicine and I have worked for almost two decades on NIH-funded research projects while in the US, giving back to academia and to the community, and I earned my US citizenship with hard work and commitment. Now living and representing abroad US excellence in academic medicine I am viewed instead by US government only as a potential tax liability and even regular family- related investment plans are stricken by very unfair rules; my children – US citizens as well, born and raised in the US – will suffer the same if they will choose to continue their lives abroad. What is the sense of all this?”Brian
“A part of the new tax law aimed at behemoths like Google and Facebook to repatriate their profits indiscriminately targets small businesses owned by American citizens in foreign countries. If you own as little as 10% of a foreign business, you’re a target. Complacency is no longer an option.”Susan from Bel Air, MD
“Current system unfair to individual citizens living abroad.”Julie from Cambridge
“Because it’s burdensome (even when you are just a stay at home mom)!”Kama from Kansas City, KS
“Taxation is theft. Double taxation is worthy of execution of all government parties involved. End the greed now!”Abdul Aziz
“If people get no US services abroad, why should they be forced to pay US taxes on foreign income? This unfair taxation just has to end.”Walker from Kingsville,
“No taxation without representation!! Remember we fought wars for this and became a separate country because of this! And now you are doing the same thing!! This is a disgrace! Our forefathers would be turning in there graves over this!!!”Valois from vichy,
“french accidental american: born in NYC in 1962, french parents, back in France in 1966, 52 years ago. Do I owe one single dollar to the US. no to tax americana”Philip T from Sandhurst,
“I like many don’t want to be doubled taxed, and I don’t want to Renounce my US Citizenship because of this unfair tax law.”Scott from wildhaus,
“I have been living in Switzerland for the last 9 years due to a work opportunity. The requirements regarding tax filing have been a source of constant worry and stress as I try to remain compliant in a foreign country and my situation is really basic without complications such as my own business or a lot of investments. In fact the concern about investing and doing something wrong has prevented me from utilizing investment opportunities in the country where I live to plan for retirement. It is time for this whole situation to change! Thank you.”Kathleen from Eschenbach,
“This unjustifiable burden of double taxation is causing too many American citizens to reluctantly renounce their American citizenship.”Kari New from Quinn’s Rocks, WA,
“American living abroad; tired of paying $700 a year to file complex taxes and getting double taxed on housing and retirement. Pls consider residency based and simplying those of us average Americans living abroad”Roberta Beardsley from Paris,
“Please change the law before my son is forced to give up his US nationality. Why is there never any thought given to the effects of legislation on Americans abroad???”John from Göteborg,
“End this disastrous law. Completely unfair to those of us who have to pay full taxes in our adopted countries”Hugo A. Cisneros from Beaumont, TX
“I don’t want to renounce my citizenship, that breaks the heart of the toughest. My identity is American and I believe it to be fair to not have to pay taxes to the US while working abroad.”Leo from Dundee,
“Hi have no connection to the US whatsoever. I was born there and left aged 5 months old. The US has no right to pursue me for taxes, and I should be able to renounce this unwanted citizenship without any cost. US citizenship has become a curse”Duncan from Christchurch,
“Put an end to this travesty of legislation that causes so much pain, wasted money and time.”Alison from Lowell, MA
“So unfair: it’s as if a person born in Texas and who moved to Arizona still had to file and pay taxes in Texas all his life!!”Edward from Teulada-Moraira,
“It is a tragedy that as an American living abroad, I am the most unfree person of any citizen of any country in the world! Chinese and Russians who are supposedly from totalitarian systems are more free than I am . As a US person I am forced to constantly report every move I make. I am the property of a predator, who is only interested in confiscating my money, my pension, and making life as difficult as possible. Even if I want to leave, I will have to pay a ransom of $2.400. Of course the US reserves the right to stalk an expatriate forever by simply declaring him a “Covered” expatriate. The whole point is to discourage Expats from doing any type of business, or even living a life abroad. It is so nefarious!”Marian from Heverlee,
“Please end this unfair system of double taxation. It’s crazy just how complicated and costly it is to file my taxes. Due to FATCA I have been rejected by my brokerage house and a bank has refused to do business with me. They don’t want Americans as customers because of the risk of U.S. penalties. FATCA has American expats toxic.”Robert
“America needs to stop its hatred to its own citizens living abroad. This was the same situation why we fought a civil war and now we are repeating this same act of tyranny. USA, join the rest of the world of resident/territorial based taxation like you offered our coporations this year.”Mari
“Find it unfair to have to pay hundreds or even thousands to specialized accountants that know the law on both countries when my income is so low to begin with. I know I won’t owe anything, but the paperwork is so complicated. Plus, starting a business is already difficult onpy to add US complications to the matter.”
Thorunn from Reykjavik,
“Banks all over the world are refusing to take on Americans as customers due to a disinclination to get involved in the maze of American tax law. We are under a huge burden which the citizens of almost no other country need suffer!”Elizabeth from SHELL COVE,
“I am signing on behalf of my son and daughter-in-law, who are affected by this law.”Gary Taylor from Westland, MI
“No taxation without representation”Brandy L Farlow from Jacksonville, FL
“When we say we don’t double tax people, that is, simply not true when it comes to c citizens outside the country. It’s wrong and needs to end.”Carlo Capocasa
“Americans are needlessly suffering from this civil war era relic- stop it!”Kelly from Edmond, OK
“This hurts ordinary Americans living abroad who are already paying taxes in their host countries.”Renee Clark from Sydney,
“This is an overwhelming burden for US citizens to bear – please repeal citizen-based taxation.”Sarah from Hafnarfjordur
“Citizenship based taxation means that Americans living abroad are taxed twice. Most people are not rich and are just trying to raise their family. Most countries tax based on where you are living, not citizenship, it’s time for America to update its tax code.”Chris from London,
“I am taking care of our children and making no money, paying hundreds of pounds to tell the US government I make no money.”Rachel from Reykjavík,
“The only other country that has CBT is Eritrea. End CBT now.”Adriana from Zurich,
“Citizen-based taxation is fundamentally unjust. We already pay plenty of taxes in our countries of residence and do not receive any of the benefits of paying taxes in the US. We do not use any US roads, infrastructure, public education , or any other social services that people living in the US receive.”
Julie from Tel aviv,
“If corporations are often given the same rights as citizens should get the same rights as corporations.”Margaret from Woodlawn,
“Since I have had no income since I’ve been in Canada, it would be my husband, who is not American, who would be taxed. Totally wrong.”Carolyn from WILLIAMSBURG, VA
“This tax situation is unfair and has very negatively affected my friend overseas, costing her much money and mental anguish just to comply with the ridiculous and overly complicated rules. Please make the tax easier to comply with and friendly to our overseas citizens living abroad!!! Thank you for reading this!”JoAn from Oviedo, FL
“This tax system causes a great deal of discrimination against Americans and makes it very difficult to obtain a banking relationship in France. Without a bank account, one is discriminated against in many other necessities of living, such as obtaining housing, etc.”Melanie from London,
Jun 23, 2018
“Citizen based taxation makes us feel like we’ve done something wrong!”Bernadette from Oxford,
“I am a dual US-UK citizen resident in the UK for 23 years.”Jennifer from London,
“Unearned income isn’t protected by tax treaty. And I pay 2k a year for compliance to tell IRS I owe 0. Please help.”
Karen
“The US needs to stop taxing the tax residents of other countries. Most of those affected are just normal people who have moved away from the US for love, job, or family. The compliance costs are excessive, and there are severe limitations on how one can save for retirement. These costs hurt both the US and host country economy.”
Jennifer from Yarralumla,
“Please help stop this unfair practice. It is destroying people’s lives!”
Alison from Okemos, MI
“Current US reporting requirements for citizens with cross-border holdings are unfair and discriminatory. This does not happen in other countries and is limiting Americans’ opportunities in the global market. Please fix this as soon as possible!”
Gary
“The US is in the esteemed company of Eritrea as the only two countries that tax citizens based on their citizenship. Except, Eritrea’s diaspora tax is only 2% and Eritrea does not tax non-resident, non-citizens ever. Anyone with a green card who lived in the US for an arbitrary 8 years remains subject to US tax even after the green card expires (and they are no longer admissible to the US) until they formally “relinquish” and pay an exit tax. US personhood is 21st century slavery. Non-residents pay taxes where they live and receive services & protection. The US offers them nothing in return. Taxing residents of other countries on their non-US source income is theft from those residents and their host country’s economy.”
Pedro
“Get rid of this anachronistic law now! It’s pernicious, discriminatory.”
Julia from Rural View,
“I don’t make much as a teacher, and the paperwork is ridiculously onerous. I’m sure the intent of the legislation was not to unfairly burden people like me, but it does. Language matters. End CBT.”
Jane
“The FATCA laws were not designed to hurt the “little guys”, but they do– ENORMOUSLY, whilst the ones who would be best caught are served by their CPA’s to avoid it. Ending citizenship-based taxation would solve the little guy nightmare without changing the laws which apply to the “big fish”.”
Reuben from Fort Belvoir, VA
“As an active duty service member I have been to war for America for freedom. However, I am also an immigrant and that freedom stops as soon as you leave American shores. Being American means free not just when you are in America. Citizenship based taxation leaves me no choice but to renounce my US citizenship.”
Donald from Bivio,
“CBT / FATCA / FBAR – the unholy trinity of unfair (and possibly unconstitutional) taxation of non-resident US citizens. The latest tax bill gave Territorial Taxation to corporations, but not to individuals. How is that fair? It was in the Republican Party Platform to eliminate these life-destroyers. Now, it’s time to deliver.”
Robert
“This double taxation is unfair to those in the low to middle class earning bracket. A “no reporting” rule should be allowed for those living permanently outside the US for 5 years or more.”
Linda from Granville, OH
“This is truly cruel for good, law-abiding citizens who just happen to live outside the US.”
Joseph Lander, WY
“I am a Homeland American and proud of it. The reason why I am involved in this is because all Americans should live freely. This includes Americans living overseas as they should not be taxed by the US government and only by the country they are living in just like every Foreigner who’s living abroad. The United States talks about this country being the land of the free but, how can that be true when Americans living abroad or not as free as the rest of the foreigners who are living abroad? Citizenship based taxation ruins lives, makes our country look like a taxation Empire, and it hurts Americans getting lucrative overseas jobs that can make this country look great. Please end citizenship based taxation.”
Christopher from vällingby,
“CBT is crazy! it costs me as much as 5% of my annual income just to keep up with the paperwork, seriously, this hurts regular people more than it catches fraud.”
Margaret from Chatenay-Malabry,
“Please President Trump, stick to your campaign promises about FATCA and citizen-based taxation. The burden (reporting, cost to pay a CPA, double taxes) for US citizens living abroad is enormous.”
Lisa
“CBT costs me 850€ each year just in preparing my tax return, just to prove that I owe nothing. And the emotional cost – fear of audit, the effort it takes to do two tax declarations – is without a price tag. Please repeal CBT.”
Joe from L’Etang-la-ville,
“Citizen-Based-Taxation hurts Americans from all parties”
Craig from Gympie,
“CBT is just plain wrong and hurts so many.”
Laurie-Annya from Stonington, CT
“This is unjust and just plain wrong!”
Deborah from East Fremantle,
“As a long term American overseas I have grave concerns for my retirement. I diligently saved only to find out my accounts will be pillaged by the IRS leaving me below the poverty level. It is unfair to treat American citizens like tax slaves.”
Kathrin
“Please stop CBT requirements for dual citizens and people overseas! I never lived in the US.”
Andrew from Long Island City, NY
“Citizen-based taxation prevents me from starting a business overseas that would generate economic activity for the United States and US citizens.”
Sherri from Buffalo, TX
“When working out of country you should not have to pay two taxes.”
Jacqueline Bugnion from St. George,
“Please everyone support Congressman Holding’s upcoming proposal for residence-based taxation. The community of Americans resident overseas is being devastated by the present legislation, which much be changed.”
Sean from pisogne,
“USA & Eritrea the only countries in the world with this crazy tax system!”
Jon from Heiligenhaus,
“Enough is enough of these discriminatory and bigoted laws punishing US persons for trying to make it beyond the country’s borders.”
Drew from Melbourne,
“more than unfair…very UNdemocratice!”
John from Newmarket,
“In reality, the U.S. policy of “citizenship-based taxation” is that that: The United States is imposing “worldwide taxation” on people who are “tax residents” of other countries and do NOT live in the United States. There is no other country that does this. There are many people who are U.S. citizens ONLY because they were born in the United States. They live in other countries, pay taxes to other countries and have no intention of ever living in the United States. (In many cases these people don’t event know that they are U.S. citizens.) Yet they are still required to pay taxes to their country of residence. Imagine that you were subject to “worldwide taxation” by a country that you had no economic or residential connection to? “Citizenship-based taxation” is an unfair, unjustified and unprincipled interference in the lives of people who do not live in the United States.”
Harriet from Paris,
“Thank you for considering our request. Due to resident based tax, more and more unfairly taxed and law abide U. S. Citizens abroad can no longer afford to be American. This is a scandal!”
Marco
“It is a shame that we are forced to renounce our US citizenship only to avoid a myriad of US inflicted paperwork and double/surcharge taxation.”
Ron from Waynesboro, VA
“Does Trump have to eventually solve this unfair issue? It might get on his long list of problem completions, if the left side of congress wakes up to the fact that thousands of once proud Americans have abandoned their citizenship and give them a reason to hate America..”Daniel from New York, NY
“So unfair, so unconstitutional – stop the abuse”
Antone Kom
“US Tax filing while living and earning in another country is a nightmare. Let’s join the rest of the world in taxing based on residency and get rid of citizen-based taxation.”
Jon
“Eliminate CBT. I am an expat and have to file yearly even though I owe nothing.”Shaun
“It is time to adopt a sensible approach to taxing American exPats based on residence and end the regulatory and filing nightmares.”Kelli from Melbourne,
“This is an unfair burden on Americans overseas. The honest people do our taxes and end up paying more in a country we don’t live in. The dishonest ones never do anything and skate free. You don’t find criminals this way… and just make American citizens abroad detest the country they want to love- the USA”Paul from Geneva,
“This restores fairness for Americans wherever they live.”C Weaver from Ventura, CA
“Please stop punishing us for living outside the US”Linda from Toronto,
“I renounced my citizenship because of the financial hardship imposed by citizen taxation and the need to file a US return, but EVEN for my daughter who was born in Canada and who has never lived or worked in the US. On the verge of retirement, I can no longer afford US citizenship (accountants’ fees) for me and my daughter. Moveroever, this policy discriminates against US citizens living abroad who are considered tax evading criminals, unlike US persons living within US borders.”Kathleen from Union Pier, MI
“This is so unfair to our citizens who for various reasons have to or choose to live abroad.”Sasank from Singapore,
“It ethical as well as economically correct for the US to end it’s practice of taxing citizens who do not live in the US (commonly known as “citizenship based taxation”). Almost all countries of the world (except the dictatorship of Eritrea) tax based on residence, an aspect that is exemplified in Rep. Holding’s push for “territorial taxation for individual’s” (TTFI) and the related bill I understand is being worked on toward’s it.”Elaine from Degerhamn,
“I am an American citizen who has lived abroad for nearly 40 years. I pay taxes in the country of residence for goods and services that I use. Why do I have to pay federal income taxes to the US, where I do not live and for which I get no benefit????”David from Praha,
“If you don’t stop this nonsense, I’m going to be forever poor and my daughter will have to revoke her citizenship at age 18, that would suck, Do the right thing please.”T Allen
“Please help end this very stressful and discriminatory law. I have lived in the UK for over 20 years and had a dream of starting my own business but have stopped short of launching it due to the headaches and stress of complying with 2 different tax laws”
Cries of anguish from #Americansabroad: Although #expats are the most obvious example of Americans with no political representation, the truth is that NO individual Americans have representation in a @partyocracy – https://t.co/axfgKme81R
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) June 30, 2018
Why is that Americans abroad are not willing to help those who are actually trying to help them?
Some are also targeting specific Congressmen/women. Interesting Senator Kamala Harris grew up in Montreal. Although she probably has no experience with cross border tax issues, she has lived outside the United States.
I do believe that @Kamalaharris grew up as a @USCitizenAbroad attending high school in Montreal – although she may not have experience with the tax problems, she would understand that there is such a thing as living outside the USA and could be an ally https://t.co/XfDs2NXejC https://t.co/b0Rok2hkQl
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) June 30, 2018
Watch how Senator Harris questions now CIA director Gina Haspel. Ms. Haspel is asked about the “morality” of CIA torture techniques. Most think Ms. Haspel is avoiding the question. On the contrary, Ms. Haspel doesn’t understand the question and believes that that “law” = “morality”.
Well at least, @KamalaHarris would presumably not support the #waterboarding of #Americansabroad – On the other hand: Gina Haspel: Well if waterboarding them is legal then it must be moral (or maybe Ms. Haspel truly did not understand the question. https://t.co/3ufMShv7gq
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) June 30, 2018
Petitions like this tend to be more of a feel good exercise if the information is not used for other purposes. Greg is however being very creative with the data by publishing many of the comments. I have suggested to him that he also use the data base of names to maybe use to eventually create a “We the People” petition to be presented to the White, should the number of signatures reach 100K, as the White House petition requires 100K signatures within 30 days for it to qualify for a response. Not realistic goal though with the low number of signees so far though…which creates the presumption that Americans abroad don’t consider CBT to be a significant problem.
FYI, Greg and others have been interviewed recently by CNBC:
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/27/more-americans-are-considering-cutting-their-ties-with-the-us-heres.html
I think there are a few things going on with petitions and the tiny numbers, even given the relatively small group aware of and active on this issue.
One, some people are very afraid of any exposure.
Two, many understand the political calculus – it’s not and never will be a winning issue in domestic political terms.
I had a faint hope that we might all be collateral beneficiaries of some Trump ruling designed to enrich his kleptocratic cronies, but no luck thus far. Otherwise CBT is probably here to stay, the best way forward is to fight it in our own countries by facilitating non-compliance through education, and encouraging our banks and governments to erect barriers to US efforts to collect information and money.
The time for action has passed. When the Committee on Ways and Means was considering ”TAX REFORM”
If the lobbyist for ISSAC BROCK, OH, YOU DON’T HAVE A LOBBYIST.Well, that is that. The only way you can get heard in D.C. is if your request is in one hand and a large ”campagin contribution” rests in the other.
youse guys didn’t understand what the SCOTUS SAID. They said money equals speech and the ones with the money got what they wanted. NO DAM TAX REFORM. Next time Have money, Get a lobbyist, and a plan. Insist on the ”Fair Plan”. Americans abroad pay nothing, Consumers inside the country pay everything.
Meantime shut up and sit down. you are wasting your time.
Adios then. Farewell. Auf Wiedersehen. Bon voyage.
@Wilton
While you are entitled to your opinion you are not entitled to talk to the members of this community as you have in your last sentence. You might want to consider cutting it out if you wish to continue contributing to this blog.
I just signed but missed the point of making a comment. I am never sure if it is appropriate for a non-American to sign. At any rate, the number is now up to…….wait for it……..722.
I think that people miss one very important consideration when evaluating the usefulness of any exercise expats take on- knowing that the likelihood of success is not very high. And that is the effect it has on other expats; perhaps waking them up to get involved. IOW, it builds community. And numbers could make a difference if they were higher. Brock is a perfect demonstration of that.
It may sound awful but really, expats are a huge part of the whole problem.
“the White House petition requires 100K signatures within 30 days for it to qualify for a response. Not realistic goal though with the low number of signees so far though…which creates the presumption that Americans abroad don’t consider CBT to be a significant problem.”
That is true isn’t it. More than 90% of Americans abroad don’t have a problem with CBT because they don’t try to comply and they can fly under the radar. That’s how the number of renunciants gets to be thousands instead of millions. The millions don’t need this kind of petition.
Besides that, petitioning the White House? Isn’t that where a party platform already promised relief from Diaspora Taxation and already reneged by inauguration day? For us few thousand fools who used to think we were doing the right thing by trying to comply, the UN petition and ADCS are more meaningful efforts.
Nothing will likely happen other kabuki dances, lawyers getting richer, sign this, that , the other, revolt, resist yammer–at the end of the day–FATCA and CBT is here. Sans some very minor PR BS tweaking, nothing sustantively will change. The us empire demands from its tax base–money. The us empire was all abt getting money, and getting more money. Hu$tlers and hucksters.
2 options: stay and pay, or renounce the abusive toxic us empire.