Update from BB / Bubblebustin
Those in Canada who are potentially affected by the Transition/Repatriation Tax (or not but care about Canada’s sovereignty) need to contact their government representatives and Ministers. As suggested by our MP’s office, start with:
Your Member of Parliament, and
Minister of Foreign Affairs,
chrystia.freeland@parl.gc.ca,
chrystia.freeland@international.gc.ca
House of Commons
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 0A6
Telephone: 613-992-5234
Fax: 613-996-9607
Minister of International Trade of Canada
Francois-Philippe.Champagne@parl.gc.ca
House of Commons
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 0A6
Telephone: 613-995-4895
Fax: 613-996-6883
Minister of National Revenue
Diane.Lebouthillier@parl.gc.ca
House of Commons
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 0A6
Minister of Finance
bill.morneau@canada.ca
The Honourable William Francis Morneau
Department of Finance Canada
90 Elgin Street
Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0G5
House of Commons
Parliament Buildings
Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0A6
Send a message to the Minister
Daniel Lauzon was quoted in the CBCNational News segment.
Daniel Lauzon works as Dir. Communications for Finance Canada.
Daniel can be reached at 613-369-5696
Should you PM me or post here with the efforts you’ve made, I would like to take them to the reporters with the CBC covering this story in developing the government action (or inaction) side of the story. The press needs to know how Canadians are getting treated by our government and maybe the additional coverage will cause the government to take action.
UPDATE: Here is a direct link to the segment.
Trump’s tax reform affects Canadian residents The National
This aired on Monday, April 30. CBC News – The National Interview with Evan Dyer
This Transition Tax situation just underscores what we have known all along; those who are not compliant (either because they are ignorant of US CBT or because they have chosen to ignore US CBT) are in the best position. Those who have made a good faith effort to comply are in the worst position.
Once compliance has begun its dodgy to go back to non-compliance because once you are in their system the IRS will presumably take notice when someone suddenly “drops off the radar”. Unfortunately, unless something changes significantly in the next couple of months, dropping out may be the only realistic option left for Mr and Mrs BB because continuing to comply will be a guaranteed disaster. The transition tax came totally out of left field and no amount of tax planning could have foreseen it. Its grossly unfair but I don’t see much help coming from either government because neither one of them cares.
“Once compliance has begun its dodgy to go back to non-compliance because once you are in their system the IRS will presumably take notice when someone suddenly “drops off the radar”. ”
They don’t though, do they. They need that 1040 signed under penalty of perjury. Otherwise they don’t know how much might be due. And they know they can’t collect.
Let sleeping dogs lie, appears to be the solution. No assessment, no tax debt, no problem. For the IRS or for the USC.
But if the USC is not comfortable with not filing, that leaves renouncing (without filing) – which may be equally unacceptable to the USC.
A painful dilemma indeed.
@plaxy
” Broadcasters and journalists may be wary of stating that the treaty does not provide for the CRA to collect from citizens. ”
Don’t follow your reasoning, especially if one decides to bid a fare thee well to the IRS at any point. But I suspect a more dubious reason for non clarity . The powers that be are fearful to offend the sensitivities of the big southern bear and refuse to indulge into going deeper ,that same applies to media or the our own federal government.
Someone listening/reading might not pay the US tax for which they had been assessed, thinking they’d be ok because the CRA wouldn’t collect US tax; not realizing that they might be risking their passport.
The significance of the no-collect-from-citizens clause is that because the IRS can’t collect, they don’t waste time and resources trying to. There’s no point in filing and then not paying. Better not to file.
What you are saying( I think ) is once you file ,your goose is cooked if you stop filing,your passport is at risk but your pension is not. If you stop filing and renounce only, same as above .If you continue to file or exit cleanly ,it will cost you dearly one way or the other. Mind you, I’ve not considered people who need/must deal with the southern bear business-wise or on a personal level.
Not at all. If you file and owe tax, the CRA won’t collect (assuming this generic ‘you’ is a Canadian citizen). But if the tax debt is large, you could be at risk of losing your passport.
If you stop filing, and renounce without filing, it won’t cost you anything more than the renunciation fee and associated costs (assuming no US assets/income); but you lose the right of entry, which for some is a big problem. And some might be uncomfortable with non-compliance generally.
Evan Dyer is now aware of the fact that the CRA won’t collect from Canadians. I expect we will see more from the CBC on this topic.
Comments on Elizabeth’s online article are closed, TG! Over 1800, mostly brutal! It’s unfortunate that we were not really portrayed as Canadian citizens, but more as Canadian residents.
At least the last comment before they were closed was decent. What a bunch of morons.
@plaxy
At the risk of stating the obvious but to expand the point, losing right of entry to the US doesn’t mean being barred from entry, it just means that a pissy border guard can keep you out, which they cannot do if you are still a US citizen. Those who’ve renounced rarely seem to have problems, at least that we hear about.
@BB
Good to hear that Evan Dyer has been corrected, and hopefully we will hear more on the subject.
The comments destroy one’s faith in humanity. There’s something about the CBC site that attracts the dimmest of trolls. Don’t say I didn’t warn y’all.
I wrote an e-mail to Elizabeth Thompson last night. The meat of it covered three points, one of which being collection. Here are the relevant bits:
No response as yet, but grist for the mill. I’m contemplating a letter to my MP plus the associated cabinet ministers. I plan to invoke the memory of the late Jim Flaherty and ask if Morneau would be willing to publicly state what’s in the tax treaty and announce that Canadian citizens are protected from collection.
That’s an excellent letter, Nononymous.
I have a post pending here about directing our efforts at the Canadian government, those of which I hope to share with the CBC team covering this. We need a statement from the Canadian government on this issue, and I intend on getting it.
@Nononymous, after I became a plaintiff I had an entirely different experience on three occasions. After the last one, we have never visited the USA nor do we ever expect to again. On each occasion after they ran my Canadian passport, we were held up and sent to secondary inspection. These were vehicle crossings. In each case, we were held for a long time and questioned but finally released.
The last time, at 6 am on a bitterly cold winter morning, we and our late dog Barclay who was in his crate in the back seat were pulled over. We were told to lower both windows and exit the car. I was very worried about my dog because there had been news reports about that border where dogs were ‘accidentally’ released from crates by border agents and ran away. Thankfully I had the foresight to lock his crate. During the two hours we were detained I was also worried about how cold our dog must have been.
They took us into a room, took our passports and told us to be seated. They didn’t ask us one question: not where we were going, how much money we were bringing in,or how long we’d be staying, ie: the usual questions. I was calm but my husband was livid. It felt like harassment and as I said, only happened after I was a plaintiff, which I expect their computer searches revealed.
Unlike the two previous times, I was not lectured/questioned as to why I wasn’t travelling on a US Passport. So ‘pissy boarder guards’ can do that to anyone, USC or not. Maybe it was just a coincidence, right?
If you have been tax compliant, renounce and get out if you can. If you haven’t, ignore the bastards and stay away. Or take your chances, I guess when entering the so called Homeland.
Seems from those comments on CBC, we are persons non grata in both countries.
Good luck with your expectation/ demand, Bubbles. Of course the Canadian government should address this issue. But we have received their answer in two clear ways. One, their statement of defence in our law suit; the other via T Jr’s ” A Canadian is a Canadian…”
Nothing has changed and Flaherty is still dead.
@Canadian Ginny
I can’t tell you how happy I am to see you here again. You’ve been missed.
Tomorrow’s phone call will be to Daniel Lauzon quoted in the National News segment.
Daniel Lauzon works as Dir. Communications for Finance Canada.
Daniel can be reached at 613-369-5696
@plaxy
” Not at all. If you file and owe tax, the CRA won’t collect (assuming this generic ‘you’ is a Canadian citizen). But if the tax debt is large, you could be at risk of losing your passport.”
We are talking about a Canadian ,dual at birth, or naturalized Canadian ,with no prior income tax debts to the US. I would assume that Canada would not collect for the IRS in any case. Also, if you stop filing,whether your income tax debt is nil or large, technically you are at risk to lose your passport. Am I corrrct so far?
Thanks, BB for your very kind comments. I have missed everyone too. And after the last several months I have had, I hope never to see the inside of a hospital again. Enough about me.
Your interview was so short after edits but I commend you and Mr. B. for doing it.
We appreciate the support you( and others here) have offered, so publicly. It’s not easy and I expect you have let the obnoxious comments roll off your back by now.
Good luck tomorrow. Let them have it as only you can.
Apparently this situation was featured on CBC’s “Power and Politcs” program today. If someone could find it for me I’d be greatly appreciative – my efforts have been futile. Ther are reports of some politician grilling going on (so says the mother of a friend who watched).
@plaxy
You said :
” If you stop filing, and renounce without filing, it won’t cost you anything more than the renunciation fee and associated costs (assuming no US assets/income); but you lose the right of entry,..”
I said :
” What you are saying( I think ) is once you file ,your goose is cooked if you stop filing,your passport is at risk but your pension is not. If you stop filing and renounce only, same as above .”
Sounds pretty much the same.
You are very well informed. Please continue with your contributions
I found it. It’s getting legs, keep it going. Elizabeth Thompson deserves huge kudo’s from us:
http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1223560259697
At 1:29:45
@BB Thank you for your efforts. This transition tax is the latest instalment of CBT/FATCA insanity but appears to be the most serious. Maybe it will finally get the attention of the Can gov. to do something (but I’m not holding my breath). I know that you and your husband have good reasons to try to comply but this outright theft has to stop. I wish everyone would just stop filing. People have to stop listening to vultures like Kevyn Nightingale. And a zero compliance rate might just get the attention of the US gov.
@Nononymous Superb letter!
@Canadian Ginny Good to hear from you – my experiences at the border have been better than yours, but I never know if my luck will run out (I’ve never been asked to get a US passport and have found most border guards to be downright friendly over the last few years).
@Robert Ross
To your first question, collection assistance would apply for a naturalized Canadian only for debts incurred prior to their having become a citizen. In other words, if a US citizen owing money (like Dewees) were to naturalize, doing so would not wipe out CRA’s obligation to help collect the existing debt.
I just sent an email to Marc-Andre Blanchard, Canada’s Permanent Representative at the United Nations, giving him the low-down on the current situation and asking him if he can find out the status of our Human Rights Complaint. I will now start in on letters to Chrystia Freeland et al. Thanks for posting the addresses, BB!
Ginny: fabulous to have you back!
BB: I’m so sorry you and your husband had to endure all that crap on the CBC site. I didn’t even read any of it and I’m livid!
Just watched the Power & Politics clip and this interview did a great deal to make the message clearer for everybody. Elizabeth Thompson has been an excellent advocate for us for many years now.
@Nononymous
Thanks for answering the first part about the collection of IRS tax but the other portion which dealt with passport revocation if one stops filing occurs when the debt is $50,000 or more.
@ Canadian Ginny
So sorry for what you have been going through this past year. And to add to everything you lost your dear furry pawdner, Barclay. Like everyone here at Brock, I’m always heartened when you pop in with your wisdom and wit.
In memory of Barclay …
The Rebel, Ginny’s Barclay
(sung to the tune of “The Rebel, Johnny Yuma”)
Ginny’s Barclay was a rebel
He was born in the south
Then Ginny’s Barclay, the rebel
Re-homed in the north
He got fightin’ mad
This rebel lad
When brought to heel
By a real raw deal
U.S. Fatca law
Was a thorn in his paw
The rebel, Ginny’s Barclay
Ginny’s Barclay was a rebel
He was born in the south
Then Ginny’s Barclay, the rebel
Re-homed in the north
He’d search out how
To end this law
He’d be Scottie strong
And Pitbull tough
‘Cause he figured that
He’d been pushed enough
The rebel, Ginny’s Barclay
Ginny’s Barclay was a rebel
He was born in the south
Then Ginny’s Barclay, the rebel
Re-homed in the north
Fightin’ mad
This rebel lad
To his rights he’d hold
‘Til the Fatca’s gone
And truth is told
It was always wrong
The rebel, Ginny’s Barclay
Nononymous: “At the risk of stating the obvious but to expand the point, losing right of entry to the US doesn’t mean being barred from entry.” Correct. It’s a major difference though, as Canadian Ginny’s account demonstrates; and in future could easily be equal to being barred, for a former citizen who would be flying and who has renounced without filing; it’s impossible to know what visa/esta restrictions may be asked in the future. I don’t think we should minimise this, it’s a real loss, for anyone who wants/needs to be able to visit the US.
Robert Ross: “if you stop filing,whether your income tax debt is nil or large, technically you are at risk to lose your passport. Am I corrrct so far?”
No, it’s currently only if the debt is over $50K (which would be likely in the case of the transition tax, but otherwise less likely).
“Sounds pretty much the same.”
Your goose is not cooked if you stop filing.