Thanks to Helen who has written this post on Re-instating US Citizenship after Renunciation. It’s a topic that doesn’t have a lot of coverage, and your knowledge and thoughts will be appreciated.
*****
I was granted my CLN in Sept 2014, the last day before the price increase from $495 to $2350.
I need to try to re-instate my US citizenship due to schooling needs of my son, as I am not finding adequate provision for his special needs in my resident country overseas and would like to return to the US for him. He is a US citizen.
The CLN is a 2 sided document. On page 2, the back side covers Appeal Procedures. It is poorly and vaguely written – but below is what is on page 2 of the CLN:
ADMINISTRATIVE REVIEW OF A FINDING OF LOSS OF NATIONALITY
The premise established by the administrative standard of evidence is applicable to cases adjudicated previously. Persons who previously lost US citizenship may wish to have their cases reconsidered in light of this policy.
A person may initiate such a reconsideration by submitting a request to the nearest US consular office or by writing directly to:
Director, Office of Policy Review and Inter-Agency Liaison, Overseas Citizens Services (CA/OCS/PRI)
SA-29 4th Floor, Dept of State, 2201 C Street, NW,
Washington, DC 20520or via express mail/courier service to
Director, CA/OCS/PRI
2100 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, 4th Floor
Washington, DC 20037Each case will be reviewed on its own merits taking into consideration, for example statements made by the person at the time of the potentially expatriating act.
for additional information see:
http://www.travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html
<http://www.travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html>
I spoke with the Consul at the US Embassy in Slovakia, where I renounced 3 years ago.
He said I need to write an appeal letter containing statements such as, When I renounced my US citizenship:
“I was under undue influence of another person” or “I renounced without understanding of the nature of my act and knowledge of consequences.”
“I was acting under duress and my actions were not voluntary.”
The Consul in Slovakia will send in my appeal to the address listed.
I have heard there are a few examples of people regaining their US citizenship through the appeal process. I wanted to post this topic to this group in the event that people might
know of how they went about doing it.
The Consul seemed to think it was best to avoid political or taxation reasons why the CLN was sought and focus on emotional or extreme duress from family members.
A guy who renounced in Japan (I can probably hunt up the link if you really want it) tried to fill in the form, which asks if you are doing this voluntarily and without coercion, with the information that he was being “coerced” by the US government and its policies. He was informed that this would void his application, and that it could not be accepted.
(It’s a bit like adding “under duress” to your signature on an IRS form)
Yes and no doubt that’s what would happen with an appeal that cited coercion by the US. It would be ruled inadmissible by someone in Washington, or just rejected.
A Consular Office can’t be expected to provide helpful advice to a non-US-citizen who wants to ask Washington to decide that the approval that the Consular Office recommended was faulty.
fn0:
“If the USA were to adopt full fledged Residence Based Taxation and drop reporting requirements and penalties for overseas Americans without US-source income, I might regret that I had renounced citizenship, and possibly look to see if there could be a way to regain it…”
A lot of former citizens might feel like this. It’s a reason for thinking very carefully indeed before renouncing.
“But believe me folks, this is not going to happen.”
I’m also sceptical about the chances of CBT going away. But FATCA could disappear or become irrelevant, and that would be enough to make many regret renouncing.
I think anyone who is only considering renouncing because of FATCA/CBT should be cautious about taking a step they might not be able to reverse.
Of course for some renunciation may be necessary despite regret.
BC_Doc:
“I think until FATCA came along, many long-term US expats who became citizens of another country were happy to simply fade away from the US— most did not actively nuke their USC.”
Some of us hadn’t actively renounced US citizenship simply because the blue book was the only way we could be sure of being able to visit family.
I sympathize with Helen, and spent some time in the Renunciation thread trying (without success) to find cases of successful appeal. It seems to me the chances of a successful appeal are low. I hope Helen will be able to find a suitable school in Slovakia or another non-US country, or find a solution that would let her son attend the US school despite her NRA status.
It just makes me laugh that you’re supposed to say that nobody is forcing you to renounce, nobody is bullying you into renouncing, you’re just doing it because you’ve nothing better to do that day and you would otherwise waste $2350.
They know full well why thousands are renouncing, forced out of US citizenship due to persecution by the USA and discrimination and exclusion in their home countries at the behest of the USA.
The USA is a serial human rights abuser that has passed law after law that punishes US citizens for attempting to live off the plantation, FATCA merely being the latest and greatest human rights abuse.
And yet again, if you tell the TRUTH about why you felt forced out of your citizenship, that won’t be accepted and in effect means you need to lie to have any chance of getting your citizenship back.
USA, you are so fecked up.
@ all … I do think the topic is worthy of being posted here. As some have said on this thread, we all know of individuals who are renouncing out of duress and they leave the Consulate weeping and/or physically sick. I do not think we should ever accuse another of being fickle or wanting their cake too. The journey is different for everyone of us; no two stories of renounciation are the same. The reasons and methods vary greatly. I wish her luck. We all know of many who have said through out this ordeal that IF/WHEN this situation changed, they believed that the US should provide a means of restoring citizenship. I am not one of them and suspect that others who came as small children won’t want it back either as they have no bond, but many, many more will want it back. It will depend I believe on whether she provided a written statement at the time and what she gave for a reason. I definitely would not get a chance to repeal. When asked I responded with “Nine years in Canada, forty – three in Canada. Who do you think I am? I am Canadian.”
Maybe Helen’s focus should be on how she didn’t quite understand what losing the right to return meant in the renunciation process, at least in her particular case.
@polly
“I was just wondering if one has US citizenship reinstated, if then taxes are due for the missing years. In this case- back taxes plus 20% late interest since 2014.”
Great question.
@Mike
Yes, it’s called suppression of free speech under the threat of permanent banishment.
I’m sympathetic to Helen but I expect her chances or re-instatement are extremely poor. Without knowing anything of the circumstances, her best route might shipping the child back to live with relatives and visiting as much during the school year as visas and money allow. But that is not a subject for discussion here.
Currently my personal feelings towards renunciation are that in purely pragmatic terms (as a Canadian citizen from birth, living in Canada but with US birthplace, without US family or financial ties) it makes sense for me to keep the US citizenship but remain fully non-compliant on the tax front.
Reasons for renunciation –
– moral satisfaction of telling the US to eff off
– small amount of security gained by not having to lie to Canadian banks
Reasons against renunciation –
– cost of US$2350
– possibility of appearing on IRS radar after renunciation
– moral satisfaction of gaming stupid US system by keeping the rights and ignoring the obligations
– remote possibility of dual-citizen child moving to US one day; renunciation without full tax exit could lead to covered expatriate status with gift and inheritance problems for her yada yada
If a report of even one successful comparable appeal could be found, at least that would show that it’s possible for a person who has renounced to get the renunciation reversed.
7 FAM 1236 offers only three circumstances that might lead to a decision to “reverse the finding of loss of nationality” when the applicant has renounced (rather than relinquished):
https://fam.state.gov/fam/07fam/07fam1230.html
At the very least, I hope that Helen understands / has not been confused as some abroad between who has to file (income thresholds)
https://www.irs.gov/publications/p17#en_US_2016_publink1000265415
Table 1-1. 2016 Filing Requirements for Most Taxpayers
were…*
your gross income
was at least…**
and
the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion, for which one must file (as above) to claim
https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/figuring-the-foreign-earned-income-exclusion
************
http://time.com/money/4298634/expat-expatriate-taxes-us-myths/
@Mike
The hypocrisy doesn’t make me laugh -it makes me want to cry. It reminds me of those Salem witch hunts with the double-binded proof that you were a witch. How did those go? You took some sort of test and were damned if you did and damned if you didnt. Like – if you drowned then you were considered innocent or something like that- but DEAD.
In essence, it seems, you’re not allowed to change your mind. A renunciation can only be revoked if it can be shown that the consular officer (a) misinformed the person or (b) made a mistake in recommending approval.
It’s so true that each of us has had our own personal journey with these issues no matter the course of action. But those thinking that if the RBT gets passed or a form of RBT gets passed and they are offered citizenship back (unlikely) or are going to wish they had a chance to get US citizenship back, had better think again.
Just because RBT may exist at any given time, does not mean it will exit tomorrow or forever. A future administration could easily put CBT back in practice. Or the benefits of RBT could be eroided slowly until before you know it becomes more like CBT again. The benefits of the FEIE have been eroded over the years. I for one would never take US citizenship back.
However I do feel for Helen and in these circumstances I can see why Helen would want US citizenship back. I hope she finds a solution to her problem quickly and wish her well.
This post is very important because it reminds us of the cost of renunciation. If and when I renounce I run the risk of not being able to return freely to the US. I’m 50. My sons may go there. I may want to spend part of my retirement there. Etc. On the other hand keeping this door open costs me compliance and potential banking problems.
Also, maybe if I renounce I can travel freely anyway. And maybe if I don’t I won’t have any IRS or banking problems. Not easy to decide, reason why I’m not renouncing yet.
Everyone’s situation is unique. In my case, even though my family included no US citizens or residents, I delayed renunciation until it became clear that:
– I would never work in the USA again
– retirement in the US was off the table due to health costs.
– continuing crazy house appreciation plus future exchange rates could increase net worth above $2million in a few years, at which point renouncing as a “covered” expatriate would create much more pain than $2350.
As those who have done this will know, It is a relief to be done with the annual stress, time, cost and complexity of filing and reporting, and the burdens that that come with non-US pensions, businesses (if any), and tax-registered savings. Visiting the US, subject to usual admissibility rules, should continue to be easy as long as I don’t visit certain mainly-Moslem countries and thereby jeopardise Trusted Traveler status. On a side note, I could never reconcile “land of the free” with limits on travel by its citizens to places such as Cuba.
‘A guy who renounced in Japan (I can probably hunt up the link if you really want it) tried to fill in the form, which asks if you are doing this voluntarily and without coercion, with the information that he was being “coerced” by the US government and its policies. He was informed that this would void his application, and that it could not be accepted.’
Yes, I would like to see the link. I told consular officials orally that I had to do it because otherwise I would be forced to continue committing perjury every year. At the end of 2011 the IRS’s Taxpayer Advocate reported to Congress that there were thousands of others just like me. Our renunciations were approved.
‘(It’s a bit like adding “under duress” to your signature on an IRS form)’
Is it? Has this case been overturned?
Todd v. US, 849 F.2d 365 62 A.F.T.R.2d 88-5043, 57 USLW 2010, 88-1 USTC P 9381
http://ftp.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/849/849.F2d.365.85-4106.html
Here ya go:
http://www.debito.org/deamericanize.html
(scroll down to right after the long form, but before the other form.)
PS: And see this:
https://rachelsruminations.com/renouncing-under-duress/
A key point is that “duress” is defined as UNLAWFUL force or coercion. The government would probably claim that it was acting within its lawful powers when it coerced you.
Interesting one from Debito. I hadn’t seen it. Thanks for posting.
Fred:
“This post is very important because it reminds us of the cost of renunciation.”
Very much so, and not only for practical reasons. For some, renunciation means exile as much as escape.
Forcing people into renouncing, and making it absolutely irrevocable is a crime against nature.
“A key point is that “duress” is defined as UNLAWFUL force or coercion. The government would probably claim that it was acting within its lawful powers when it coerced you.”
The government would take the position that there was no duress and the person had simply been prevented from submitting a frivolous application.