[OCTOBER 24, 2017 POSTMORTEM: MANY THANKS TO THE SIGNERS! — RO says: “We now have 3027 petitions …plus 535 letters… Fewer than we wanted, but still respectable.” ]
[Quote in title is from this link provided by Mike, below.]
TODAY IS THE LAST DAY TO SPEND JUST ONE MINUTE OF YOUR TIME TO SEND TTFI PETITION TO U.S. CONGRESS AND MAKE A CHANGE
AFTER 12:00 NOON TODAY, REPUBLICANS OVERSEAS BEGINS TO COMPILE THE SIGNATURES TO BE SENT TO CONGRESS.
Can you please set aside one minute of your time and sign the Republicans Overseas (RO) petition to end U.S.-style worldwide taxation and establish TTFI (territorial taxation for individuals) by signing their petition that will be sent to U.S. Congress.
Of course we know that this is an uphill battle, but RO is working hard to change the U.S. “Worldwide Taxation” system to “Territorial Taxation For Individuals”.
If RO is successful, do you accept that TTFI could be some modest “good news” even and especially for those persons and their families who have never wanted to have anything to do with the United States and just want “out”?
No one knows what will be in the final tax reform proposal, but I think that a fair question to consider is: If an RO TTFI-like proposal becomes law, is it likely that your life and your children’s lives will be at least “somewhat” better than it is now — irrespective of whether you want to be an American or not, or whether you are IRS compliant or not, or whether you like Republicans or Democrats or not?
If you believe that you and your family might be helped by TTFI, then sign the petition.
— And, if you, like me, have already renounced U.S. tax citizenship and would not personally be helped by TTFI, sign the petition anyway if you feel that your support could help others.
See below the 10/10/2017 letter on the TTFI petition emailed to me from RO’s Michael DeSombre.
— The key time sensitive point of this post is that although our letters and petitions (1744) from many of you have already been delivered and discussed with White House and some legislative staff, WE ASK FOR YOUR HELP IN OBTAINING EVEN MORE (at least 5000 total) PETITIONS — TO BE DELIVERED DIRECTLY TO CONGRESS BY OCTOBER 22, 2017.
Please take one minute to fill out the petition HERE.
The letter from RO:
“One of the most important items discussed [at the White House meeting] was Republican Overseas’ political strategy for having TTFI included in tax reform. These discussions provided significant positive feedback and insight. With this new information, RO will tailor its lobbying strategy going forward to maximize our chances of ending citizenship based taxation.
The three most important meetings with regards to ending CBT were with Samantha Zager, White House Associate Political Director, and with Matt Stross, Legislative Counsel to Congressman George Holding (North Carolina), and Congressman David Schweikert, a key member on the House Ways and Means Committee.
Ms. Zager was impressed with the letters and the volume of petitions. The White House supports our grassroot efforts to reach out to Congress and to lobby for the inclusion of TTFI. Ms. Zager will help to facilitate meetings with individual members in both the White House and Congress who can help with TTFI inclusion.
While we have White House support, only Congress makes law. We need to ensure that any tax reform bill sent to the President includes TTFI. Congress needs to hear from overseas Americans directly.
What you probably want to know now is: “Have we done it? Is CBT a thing of the past? Is this double taxation nightmare over?” Unfortunately, CBT is not gone yet, but we are definitely in the process of consigning CBT to history.
The next step is to take our fight to Congress.
We are setting up meetings with key members of the House Ways and Means Committee and the Senate Finance Committee on October 23-25, 2017. Republicans Overseas has three goals for this second phase:
— Deliver a petition requesting the inclusion of TTFI in the tax reform package with 6400 signatures from overseas Americans. Our petition campaign will continue until October 22, 2017 in order to gather the necessary signatures.
— Deliver 10-20 letters that will be included as testimony into the Congressional hearings on tax reform.
— Meet with key people who are drafting the tax reform package and ensure that they have heard your voices and understand that TTFI tax reform will benefit America as well as benefiting overseas Americans.
We need your help! Here is what you can do to support TTFI:
— Please sign the petition if you haven’t already done so. I assume all of you have already done so, but if not, please do so right away. The campaign will run until October 22, 2017, and we have a new landing page for the petition. We have your signature if you have already signed—no need to sign again.
— Please go out again to your mailing list or friends and ensure they have all signed the petition. -Ensure you hit both Democrats and Republicans.
— Become a paid member (e.g., Associate level) of Republicans Overseas HERE. RO is entirely self-funded, and your membership fees will be used to continue the legal and political battle against FATCA as well as to fund the political efforts to end citizenship based taxation.
Thank you for your ongoing support! We can’t do it without you. We will continue to fight for the end of citizenship based taxation.
Regards,
Michael DeSombre”
Petitions already delivered to White House. Now we are asking for more petitions (only) to be sent to Congress by October 22.
These petitions can be filled out in less than 60 seconds.
Thank you so much for posting this, Stephen. On a day when I needed an infusion of hope, here it is! The fight is still on and we have another milestone date to push towards. I hope that anyone who is still feeling reticent about supporting this effort will put aside whatever political or technical differences with the plan that they may hold and register their “vote” for OUR freedom from the current oppressive, extra-territorial tax policies of the United States.
Done. Definitely a one issue voter now.
I am advertising this petition and any other effort like it as a bipartisan effort which Republicans Overseas is just a part of. I don’t want anyone I forward this to to get hung up on the fact it’s coming from a group of Republicans.
I signed and commented though I am no longer a US citizen and have never been a member of any US political party – including the Republicans.
Anything useful from this?
https://www.treasury.gov/press-center/press-releases/Documents/2018-03004_Tax_EO_report.pdf
“……..As it relates to FATCA, Treasury’s report to the President also noted that Treasury and the IRS have undertaken a comprehensive review of all tax regulations, regardless of when they were issued. According to the report, “[t]his review will identify tax regulations that are unnecessary, create undue complexity, impose excessive burdens, or fail to provide clarity and useful guidance, and Treasury and the IRS will pursue reform or revocation of those regulations.” Treasury further stated that it is continuing to analyze all recently issued significant regulations and is considering possible reforms of recent regulations beyond the eight specific regulations identified earlier this summer. Treasury’s report specifically identifies regulations promulgated under FATCA as under review and subject to possible reform……..”
http://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/treasury-hints-that-regulatory-review-61021/
A January 2017 Executive Order requires federal agencies to cut two existing regulations for every new regulation they implement.
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/01/trumps-regulation-eo/515007/
We could certainly help the numbers of regulations cut especially if a little creativity is used.
Nix FATCA IGA, 113 regulations nixed.
Add some more:
Patriot ACT U.S. financial institution discrimination against U.S. persons with an overseas address
FBAR discrimination against hiring Americans overseas (the countries may be listed so 1 nix for each country).
PFIC on mutual funds held by Americans living overseas.
Punitive treatment of overseas pensions and retirement funds.
Once one starts naming all the retirement vehicles of the various countries and types of entities, financial products, laws impacted, etc. this will add up to hundreds of “regulations” nixed for each country via a shift to Territorial/Residence Based Taxation for individuals.
So our cause may offer up 10s of thousands of regulations that may be cut. It appears these “regulations” fall under the “agency” Treasury, so shift to TTFI/RBT may offer a ‘holy grail’ of multitudes of regulation cuts to the Treasury KPI (Key Performance Indicator).
I filed my FBARs and IRS return this week.
$400 down the drain, and of course no tax owed.
…
Reading the latest comments makes me feel better.
They could start by nixing the IGAs. That would be wonderful, in that it would confuse all the countries that signed them, and would make it very hard to get them on board again next time.
If the US were to withdraw from the IGAs, US citizens in some countries would immediately be in a better position to challenge our government for stripping us of DP rights for the purpose of sending our financial information to a country that (a) we don’t live in and (b) has no AEOI agreement with our government.
My input –
STOP terrorising British residents and citizens for immoral taxation and penalties for the USA. This is NOT YOUR MONEY!
Plaxy: exactly. IGAs are a mitigating factor of dubious legality. If they were repealed, the threat against banks would be huge. In the EU they’d have to choose again between discrimination against some EU citizens for reason of origin, clearly illegal, and taking the risk of US withholding against them if some USP is not correctly reported. The US would then have to decide if it wants to apply this, err, deterrent (I was going to write nuclear option, but let’s not play with words these days). With the currently probable dismantling of NAFTA, Canada and Mexico would probabaly not take kindly at all to huge withholdings, the US might not dare actually implement it and would therefore prove itself toothless, mooting FATCA. If it did withhold, the lawsuits would be a lawyer’s dream.
Fred – hard to guess what might happen with regard to the withholding threat, if the IGAs got tossed.
I definitely think it would change the picture on the loss of local data protection rights. Without the IGA, a country would have no treaty commitment to report accounts held by residents with US “indicia” without the person’s consent.
If such a case was won in my country, the government might still be able to require banks to send reports to the local tax agency, but might not be able to forward the reports to the IRS.
Posey’s letter says:
If Posey’s letter did trigger the mention of FATCA regulations in this report, let’s hope that they’ll freeze the withholding along with terminating the IGAs.
“With the currently probable dismantling of NAFTA, Canada and Mexico would probabaly not take kindly at all to huge withholdings, the US might not dare actually implement it and would therefore prove itself toothless, mooting FATCA. If it did withhold, the lawsuits would be a lawyer’s dream.”
The IRS can withhold on US source payments. The FI couldn’t sue and neither could the government of the FI’s country. But the US would have other reasons to hesitate before detonating the withholding threat. It certainly wouldn’t do the global economy any good.
Please share with your family to sign. Also homeland Americans who understand and support this can sign the petition. We need 6400 signatures by 22 October. We can do it!
@plaxy Australia made exception in its privacy law ‘in case of international agreement’ (made just for FATCA). If the FATCA IGA goes then the banks may be exposed.
JC – the privacy law exception also applies to CRS – and Australia requires banks to report on US citizens under both FATCA and CRS. I don’t think the banks will be exposed to any liability under the privacy law if FATCA is repealed. Their bigger liability is for failure to properly comply with CRS and FATCA because of their lax due diligence procedures.
So you are saying that under CRS alone AU banks are required to collect account info for non CRS signatories?
I suppose under CRS there is some impracticality of maintaining a list of signatory countries and only requiring reporting for them, a there may be frequent changes in the early years.
The requirements for FATCA and CRS are different. So if the banks report this difference, without international agreement, then they would be infringing on privacy. Their questions may remain the same to customers yet it would be a “back room” transgression.
@JC
Yes – under CRS banks must report to the ATO all account holders who are tax-residents in a country other than Australia. This is the “wider approach” that I mentioned in my blog post on CRS (http://fixthetaxtreaty.org/2017/05/01/crs-coming-soon-to-a-bank-near-you/). The guidance material on the ATO website specifically mentions the position of US citizens who are always US tax residents even if they are also Australian tax residents.
CRS was based on FATCA. So, while the requirements are different, they aren’t that different. CRS reports a slightly larger set of accounts because there is no low value threshold and there are no local client base banks. What I expect will happen is that banks that have to report under FATCA will just report exactly the same accounts that they reported under CRS – they will ignore the $50,000 low value threshold. Local client base banks are still exempt from FATCA reporting, so they will only send CRS reports to the ATO.
Unless the US repeals FATCA, I think the best we can hope for from our government is:
* The ATO should inform account holders of the information being sent to a foreign government (any foreign government) under any Automatic Exchange of Information – including both FATCA and CRS.
* The ATO should report to parliament on what data they are both sending and receiving under these programs. Specifically, the public should know the number and aggregate value of accounts reported under both FATCA and CRS (interestingly there is a requirement for the ATO to report this data to parliament with respect to CRS, but not FATCA) AND the number and aggregate value of accounts reported to the ATO by other countries.
* The Australian government should push back on the lack of reciprocity under FATCA and seek to re-negotiate an IGA that gives the ATO the same quality of information as Australia is providing to the IRS.
JC, Karen: Not privacy – data protection. Bank privacy is over, I agree. Data protection is not.
Here, as in Australia, and I think in many countries, implementation of FATCA was achieved by new local legislation requiring banks to collect the data without the owner’s consent, and send it to the local tax agency. New legislation was not needed to allow the tax agency to forward the information beyond national borders without the owner’s consent, because the IGA was hooked into the existing double taxation treaty.
If the US withdraws from the IGA, there will no longer be a treaty requiring the government to send US citizen account data beyond the borders without the owner’s consent. No international agreement under either FATCA or CRS.
That removes the justification for collection of the data: if not required because of suspicion of crime, and not required under treaty, what’s the justification for requiring banks to collect the information without the person’s consent?
Banks (under law in my country – may be different elsewhere) would continue to be protected from both privacy right and data protection right risks, if the IGA falls. A person or group would need to take action against the government, not the bank.
Karen –
“The Australian government should push back on the lack of reciprocity under FATCA and seek to re-negotiate an IGA that gives the ATO the same quality of information as Australia is providing to the IRS.”
It’s my understanding that the US federal government can’t do this under US law, because bank secrecy is protected under states’ rights. That’s what allows US states to operate as tax havens.
Could ALL parties do this / Republican National Committee (RNC) has solicited its database of 60 MILLION voters to sign a petition supporting tax reform/ Republican National Committee (RNC) has solicited its database of 60 MILLION voters to sign a petition supporting tax reform Keith Redmond shared a link.
10 hrs
IT’S TIME TO PETITION CONGRESS TO END CITIZENSHIP BASED TAXATION (CBT)!!!
Americans overseas supporting Territorial Taxation (TTFI) for Individuals: Keith Redmond, Americans Overseas Global Advocate who is the founder of the American Expatriates group on Facebook and Republicans Overseas.
During meetings the week of 2 October, Solomon Yue (RO Vice Chairman & CEO) and Michael DeSombre (RO Worldwide President) delivered the signed petitions and letters to the White House and to select members of Congress. Keith Redmond (American Overseas Global Advocate & representing Accidental Americans) accompanied them to certain key meetings in Congress.
During those meetings, a strategy was discussed for having TTFI included in the Tax Reform Bill. The White House is supportive of the grassroots efforts to get TTFI included but ONLY Congress makes laws. We were advised to share our petitions and letters with Congress.
WE NEED YOU TO TAKE ACTION AND SIGN THE PETITION AS WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE!
For example, the Republican National Committee (RNC) has solicited its database of 60 MILLION voters to sign a petition supporting tax reform. They received around 6,400 responses, yes that is 6,400 responses!!!
We want to demonstrate that the 9 MILLION Americans overseas demonstrate more of a passion for tax reform by submitting 6,400 PETITIONS to Congress requesting that TTFI be included in the Tax Reform Bill. We have already gathered nearly 1300 petitions: we need 5100 more!
If you haven’t signed the petition, please do so now!
http://ttfi.info
Please ask five of your overseas family and friends to sign as well. Additionally, the petition can be signed by homeland Americans who support this change.
The petition campaign will run through Sunday, 22 October as we will be back on Capitol Hill on 23 to 25 October to deliver the petitions and lobby Congress.
Please sign the petition! Let’s end Citizenship Based Taxation (CBT)!!!
@plaxy
“It’s my understanding that the US federal government can’t do this under US law, because bank secrecy is protected under states’ rights. That’s what allows US states to operate as tax havens.”
I agree. But our governments signed a treaty agreeing to send all sorts of data to the US. The model 1 IGAs all require the US to attempt to pass laws that would allow limited reciprocity. I would like to see some governments push back on the US. The US forced Australia to re-write its laws to allow reporting; shouldn’t the US do the same? I know they won’t, but I’d just like the hypocrisy to be exposed and openly discussed beyond our little echo chamber here.
Karen – I wholeheartedly agree.
Karen & Plaxy: this is why, if Trump were to nullify the IGAs, they’d be harder to reinstate in the future — at least I hope. Other countries would realize that promises of reciprocity are just hot air.
Thanks Keith (Video explains situation) Why Territorial Taxation for Individuals (TTFI) needs to be part of tax reform https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=sDACKfNj4dw&app=desktop