[OCTOBER 24, 2017 POSTMORTEM: MANY THANKS TO THE SIGNERS! — RO says: “We now have 3027 petitions …plus 535 letters… Fewer than we wanted, but still respectable.” ]
[Quote in title is from this link provided by Mike, below.]
TODAY IS THE LAST DAY TO SPEND JUST ONE MINUTE OF YOUR TIME TO SEND TTFI PETITION TO U.S. CONGRESS AND MAKE A CHANGE
AFTER 12:00 NOON TODAY, REPUBLICANS OVERSEAS BEGINS TO COMPILE THE SIGNATURES TO BE SENT TO CONGRESS.
Can you please set aside one minute of your time and sign the Republicans Overseas (RO) petition to end U.S.-style worldwide taxation and establish TTFI (territorial taxation for individuals) by signing their petition that will be sent to U.S. Congress.
Of course we know that this is an uphill battle, but RO is working hard to change the U.S. “Worldwide Taxation” system to “Territorial Taxation For Individuals”.
If RO is successful, do you accept that TTFI could be some modest “good news” even and especially for those persons and their families who have never wanted to have anything to do with the United States and just want “out”?
No one knows what will be in the final tax reform proposal, but I think that a fair question to consider is: If an RO TTFI-like proposal becomes law, is it likely that your life and your children’s lives will be at least “somewhat” better than it is now — irrespective of whether you want to be an American or not, or whether you are IRS compliant or not, or whether you like Republicans or Democrats or not?
If you believe that you and your family might be helped by TTFI, then sign the petition.
— And, if you, like me, have already renounced U.S. tax citizenship and would not personally be helped by TTFI, sign the petition anyway if you feel that your support could help others.
See below the 10/10/2017 letter on the TTFI petition emailed to me from RO’s Michael DeSombre.
— The key time sensitive point of this post is that although our letters and petitions (1744) from many of you have already been delivered and discussed with White House and some legislative staff, WE ASK FOR YOUR HELP IN OBTAINING EVEN MORE (at least 5000 total) PETITIONS — TO BE DELIVERED DIRECTLY TO CONGRESS BY OCTOBER 22, 2017.
Please take one minute to fill out the petition HERE.
The letter from RO:
“One of the most important items discussed [at the White House meeting] was Republican Overseas’ political strategy for having TTFI included in tax reform. These discussions provided significant positive feedback and insight. With this new information, RO will tailor its lobbying strategy going forward to maximize our chances of ending citizenship based taxation.
The three most important meetings with regards to ending CBT were with Samantha Zager, White House Associate Political Director, and with Matt Stross, Legislative Counsel to Congressman George Holding (North Carolina), and Congressman David Schweikert, a key member on the House Ways and Means Committee.
Ms. Zager was impressed with the letters and the volume of petitions. The White House supports our grassroot efforts to reach out to Congress and to lobby for the inclusion of TTFI. Ms. Zager will help to facilitate meetings with individual members in both the White House and Congress who can help with TTFI inclusion.
While we have White House support, only Congress makes law. We need to ensure that any tax reform bill sent to the President includes TTFI. Congress needs to hear from overseas Americans directly.
What you probably want to know now is: “Have we done it? Is CBT a thing of the past? Is this double taxation nightmare over?” Unfortunately, CBT is not gone yet, but we are definitely in the process of consigning CBT to history.
The next step is to take our fight to Congress.
We are setting up meetings with key members of the House Ways and Means Committee and the Senate Finance Committee on October 23-25, 2017. Republicans Overseas has three goals for this second phase:
— Deliver a petition requesting the inclusion of TTFI in the tax reform package with 6400 signatures from overseas Americans. Our petition campaign will continue until October 22, 2017 in order to gather the necessary signatures.
— Deliver 10-20 letters that will be included as testimony into the Congressional hearings on tax reform.
— Meet with key people who are drafting the tax reform package and ensure that they have heard your voices and understand that TTFI tax reform will benefit America as well as benefiting overseas Americans.
We need your help! Here is what you can do to support TTFI:
— Please sign the petition if you haven’t already done so. I assume all of you have already done so, but if not, please do so right away. The campaign will run until October 22, 2017, and we have a new landing page for the petition. We have your signature if you have already signed—no need to sign again.
— Please go out again to your mailing list or friends and ensure they have all signed the petition. -Ensure you hit both Democrats and Republicans.
— Become a paid member (e.g., Associate level) of Republicans Overseas HERE. RO is entirely self-funded, and your membership fees will be used to continue the legal and political battle against FATCA as well as to fund the political efforts to end citizenship based taxation.
Thank you for your ongoing support! We can’t do it without you. We will continue to fight for the end of citizenship based taxation.
Regards,
Michael DeSombre”
@JC, thanks for cutting to the cold hard facts. This is an AMAZING number because there is a fear of signing and we outperformed homelanders on tax reform!!!
@Fred…spot on. I signed it and got a couple others to do so.
JC: Thank you from the bottom of my heart for analyzing the numbers properly. 3000 signatures (and don’t forget the additional 500 or so letters that were written!) is a FABULOUS result when you calculate the general tendency of the population as a whole to not get involved. Although I admire Keith Redmond and USCitizenAbroad for their tireless work on behalf of our worldwide community I think they both have this one all wrong. I don’t know the exact stats on this but I know that it is considered that every signature on a petition represents many, many more. Professionals who analyze such petitions know this.
We have three days of meetings with key members of Congress starting tomorrow. I pray that our friends at RO who are conducting these meetings will go in with the confidence that their efforts are fully supported by this community. If they start the meetings with, “Well, I know we didn’t get very many signatures but we still really, really want the end of CBT….” THEN we are truly dead in the water. Success finds people who act successful!
I’m with JC … let’s keep it positive, folks!
“the next step should be litigation”
It won’t work. I can supply evidence that the IRS, US Department of Justice, and courts at the trial and appeal and supreme levels are all unable to comply with Cook v. Tait, but courts do not care. Even if you get Bopp to work for you, courts will not care.
The next step is the same as the previous step. You, I, and the owner of this blog did it right.
“As paranoid as I am, I can’t see the IRS combing through petitions and selecting victims. This would amount to intimidation, would use up valuable time and resources, and would likely be very low yield.”
That’s exactly what they do. It’s their job.
“Besides, how likely is it that a true fat cat fraudster with seizable assets in the US would sign the petition?”
So what? They’re not the ones people are arguing about, right?
The next step could also be to challenge the renunciation fee. The accidentals that I know did not sign for this reason. They will only support a proposal that allows them to renounce without filing 5 years and without paying the inflated renunciation fee.
“The next step could also be to challenge the renunciation fee.”
I agree. Though I still think it should be possible to get a CLN by applying for a passport renewal and declaring a relinquishing act on the passport application.
We have come to realize that tax professionals may be able to file forms, etc, they truly do not understand the reality of the human side of CBT. The same principle applies when people who have worked hard, (some as long as the last 6 years) communicate their frustration with a response that really does not hit the mark. It may be hard to hear but it is the truth of what has occurred. Ideas and expectations are one thing. The hard work of people is something else altogether.
I initially liked JC’s suggestion but after re-reading comments here and on the FB group I am getting a different reaction. It is not an issue of comparing the response of Homelanders to tax reform and expats to TTFI. Expats have a much harder road to deal with. The government has actively enacted laws against us since 1966. Numbers do matter. They certainly matter when the effectiveness of voting comes into play. We all know the politicians can simply write us off. It seems to me people are really not getting it. There is never going to be a return to pre-FBAR Inquisition times. There is not going to be a perfect solution that lets one come out completely unscathed in terms of making a decision about renouncing or not, becoming compliant or not. Expecting to keep US citizenship without giving up something else is not going to cut it. OR expecting to be released from US citizenship without effort is not going to happen. It’s not fair, and it stinks but it is what it is.
Many will probably remain under the radar because they can. This is a huge problem because if more don’t come forward on something as small as a signature, the whole movement is weakened. No matter how hard people work or others try to remain positive, this problem is very very real. It is enough to make one question whether continuing to be involved is personally feasible.
BTW, thank you Nononymous, for what you did and for your comment on Tax Connections.
Maybe we could learn something from the South Africans.
They faced losing their version of the FEIE.
They mobilized- see their petition below.
They got a 2 year reprieve.
http://www.mondaq.com/southafrica/x/623850/Income+Tax/South+Africans+Working+Abroad+Proposed+Removal+Of+Tax+Exemption
South Africa: South Africans Working Abroad – Proposed Removal Of Tax Exemption
https://www.change.org/p/south-african-revenue-service-south-african-petition-against-changes-by-the-national-treasury-on-section-10-1-o-ii-of-the-tax-law
12,873 have signed.
https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/2MKKLKL
https://www.facebook.com/TaxPetitionGroup/posts/276210509547854
From now on, every chance I get, I’m going to bluntly post the straightforward statement that Canadians in Canada (i.e. dual citizens) need not comply with US taxes if they don’t have US financial ties. Period. Until Tax Connections is sick of me.
Republicans Overseas says:
“We ended up with a little over 2900 signatures plus 535 letters. Fewer than we wanted, but still respectable.”
Fred, the IRS and politicians have very little interest in going after the fat cat fraudsters – they are part of the donor class and are also quite able to defend themselves. This is all part of ‘fraud’ theater, kind of like the TSA’s ‘security’ theater. Part of this game is to show large numbers of cases and regular Joe’s are much easier pickings. Also the idea is to make life tough on regular Joes, so the population can sees it and believes the IRS is being just as tough in going after the fat cats….
Regular Joes living outside the US are much harder pickings than fatcats living inside the US and possessing unreported foreign accounts.
From an American overseas in the American Expatriates group: US Persons living outside the USA have: no lobbyist, no PAC, no unions, no rallies, no sign-brandishing marches in the streets, no one repeating viral memes like “Expat lives matter” or “Me too”, no talking heads on CNN or Fox discussing our issues, no mention on talk shows or political comedy shows, no editorials in any mainstream news media, and never held a single meeting…
And yet…
We got EIGHTEEN times the response rate that the Republican Party got for a petition on general tax reform from the whole USA, based on overall population.
Is that not something to crow loudly about to lawmakers?
@ Keith Redmond
YES, with a fist pump. I wish I could read the comments at American Expatriates but FB is currently blocking FB outsiders. I can still read the posts though by substituting “m” for “www”.
Yes indeed, Keith. That IS something to crow about! And I hope it’s crowed very loudly in Washington over these next three days. Godspeed and best wishes to those who will be presenting our “voices” on our behalf.
I heard the petition what shut off, thus blocking stragglers.
I have good news, JC. RO was able to collect a few more after the cut-off bringing the total to over 3,000.
3,027 to be exact.
That is good news, Bubblebustin. For reasons I can’t comprehend, despite (or maybe because of) the ALL-CAPS DEADLINE in my e-mails, at least 4 of the people I wrote to waited until the day after to add their signatures. I’m happy to see we topped 3000. Fists pumping? Yeah, why not?
Yes, fist-pump away, Barbara. 3000 plus sounds a lot better than 2000 something, no?
Really, for those of us who signed earlier on those all-caps headlines were a little much, but if it worked to get more signatures, it was worth any annoyance.
Let’s see how good of a salesman Solomon Yue is. We’re supposed to get a report by week’s end, at least according to RO’s FB page.
Excellent, BB!!
@EmBee,
I discovered Friday that the www. address for American Expatriates FB is working for us non-Facebookers again. I like reading that site too and it was frustrating not to be able to see the comments during the past few weeks.
@ pacifica777
Yes I noticed too and I’m now pretty much caught up on the comments. Funny how FB goes off and on like that. I’ve seen it happen with other FB pages too. Maybe it’s meant to make a person sign up … nope, not gonna happen with me. I’m content to lurk when possible.
I’m not a Republican and I hate Trump but I signed RO’s on-line petition anyways. Here’s the e-mail I received in follow-up with an update on ROs efforts. It looks like folks can still sign/add to the on-line petition (I would encourage people who haven’t do so). Thank you to Solomon for your efforts!
BC Doc
***********************************************
Dear BC_Doc
THANK YOU for signing the TTFI petition or writing a letter to President Trump about including TTFI in the Tax Reform Bill!
Your efforts are helping to change minds in Washington, D.C.
With your support, we are making progress in getting Congress to include Territorial Taxation for Individuals into the Tax Reform Bill, and our issues are making the front page of important newspapers like the Financial Times:
Our success is due to a combination of three things:
Grassroot power due to your petitions and letters.
Political support from the RNC (read their resolution on TTFI here) and Americans for Tax Reform (read Grover Norquist’s letters here and here).
Republicans Overseas’ political power in Washington which secured the right meetings with key decision makers.
I want to give you a brief update on the series of meetings that we held in Washington, D.C, last week, tell you what our next steps are, and invite you to further support us as we carry on fighting to end citizenship-based taxation.
TTFI Meetings – Washington, D.C., October 23 – 25, 2017
Republicans Overseas used our contacts’ political connections to meet with key tax reform decision makers. Some of the most important visits included:
Shahira Knight, Special Assistant to the President for Tax and Retirement Policy (received a book of your petition signatures)
House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Kevin Brady’s office (received a book of your petition signatures)
Senator Dean Heller’s office (received a book of your petition signatures)
Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform
Senator Rand Paul’s office (received a book of your petition signatures).
During these three days, we also met with other Congressional members and conservative grassroots organizations to build momentum for TTFI and to provide political support for Chairman Brady.
We had several key outcomes, including Chairman Brady telling the Washington, D.C. media at the Christian Science Monitor Breakfast that his committee is seriously considering Republicans Overseas’ TTFI proposal to switch from citizenship-based taxation to TTFI. This announcement came the day after our meetings.
Additionally, the Financial Times reached out to interview us because of the impact we are having, and the resulting article (published Oct. 25) was shown in the picture above and can be read here. The Financial Times later Tweeted that RO wants to end CBT.
On October 30, after our meeting with him, Grover Norquist wrote a second letter to Chairman Brady of the House Ways and Means Committee asking him to include TTFI in the Chairman’s mark-up of the bill. This is a very powerful recommendation, and shows clearly that we are changing the minds of key decision makers on tax reform.
Next Steps
We spent a lot of time discussing strategies for including TTFI in the tax reform bill, and we came away with the following key takeaways:
Numbers matter. While our petition response rate was far superior to that of the RNC’s signature campaign regarding tax reform, more signatures would mean more response. If we had 10,000 signatures, we would get more from Congress. Grassroots activism works, and we need to continue building a coalition of overseas Americans—regardless of political affiliation—who will raise their voices and make them heard by our representatives in Washington.
We need to keep up the pressure and stay visible. We need to build better support within the Senate Finance Committee by meeting more of their key decision makers. We also need to get invited to go into conference with the Senate Finance Committee and the House Ways and Means Committee.
Republicans Overseas is considering how best to do this and will share details when they are available.
What You Can Do
Please continue supporting our efforts to end citizenship-based taxation- we can’t do it without you!
There are many options to help, but please consider a donation if you can.
You can support our efforts to end CBT in several ways:
Continue to tell people about the petition and send them to http://ttfi.info/. The more signatures we have the stronger grass roots support we can demonstrate. We are planning another trip to DC during the expected conferencing process and our influence will be much stronger with 5000+ signatures.
Donate money to Republicans Overseas. We are an entirely self-funded organization, and visiting D.C. costs money. More money means more visits and a better presence in the Congress and the Senate. Furthermore, we continue to pursue the lawsuit against FATCA. While ending CBT would eliminate much of the need for FATCA, it would not eliminate the law outright. Our efforts have resulted in FATCA being reviewed by the Treasury as a potentially burdensome regulation and in bills being introduced into both the House and Senate to repeal FATCA. However, it may still take the Supreme Court to declare the law unconstitutional. We need to keep up the legal pressure on FATCA and we need your support to do so. Please donate to support our efforts!
Join Republicans Overseas. We welcome new members to help us in this fight. Membership fees are used to support our anti-FATCA lawsuit and our TTFI lobbying efforts. If you are already a member in a region where we don’t have an active chapter, consider forming one. We’ll help! This email list will only receive information on FATCA and TTFI. If you would like to stay informed about other RO actions, please consider joining as a member.
Share this email with other interested parties. Let’s share our efforts and build support! There are buttons below that will allow you to share via FB, Twitter or by email. Numbers matter.
Stay on our mailing list. We will continue to share information on our efforts to repeal FATCA and switch CBT to TTFI, and keep you informed about actions where we need your help.
Thank you again for your support and participation in the petition drive and letter writing campaign. Our issues are on the front pages of important newspapers and being spoken about by some of the most powerful and influential figures in the US government. We haven’t reached our goal yet, but we are making important inroads and plan to keep up the pressure. We hope that you will continue your support.
Sincerely,
Solomon
Solomon Yue, Jr.
Vice Chairman and CEO, Republicans Overseas
P.S. You are receiving this email because you signed the TTFI Petition or wrote a letter to President Trump requesting support for TTFI. You will only receive information from Republicans Overseas about our initiatives to repeal FATCA and to end citizenship-based taxation (unless you are a RO member or have signed up for general RO news). If you would like to hear more about other RO initiatives, please join as a member or sign up for our other newsletter. Republicans Overseas respects your privacy and will never share or sell your email address or other personal information. If you do not wish to receive updates, please unsubscribe below. We will be sorry to see you go, but are thankful for your support!