As part of our FATCA IGA litigation in Canada’s Federal Court, Our three Plaintiffs previously provided financial information to the Government lawyers on their accounts. However, Government submitted a motion to compel Plaintiffs to provide additional very detailed financial information.
Our litigators felt that this request was unnecessary and unreasonable — and resisted the motion; however, the Case Management Judge sided with Government and ordered today, on May 31 2017, Plaintiffs to provide further documents.
Plaintiff Gwen responds to court order: “If the nosy-ass government hacks feel that they will find something that they didn’t know before, they will be sorely disappointed and this changes nothing other than to piss us off even more…”
Plaintiff Ginny comments: “I am disappointed with the decision that permits the government to invade our privacy in further minutia. This power play demonstrates to me that the government has no respect for privacy principles and will do everything possible to uphold their decision to support FATCA, and the importation of US law into our sovereign nation.
Their choice to ask for costs is another clear warning to discourage any citizens wishing to challenge unjust legislation. However, the three of us remain undeterred in seeking justice for all of us affected. Once again, I rely on my family motto: don’t let the bastards get you down.
…I find this very distressing on many levels,not the least of which is how difficult, within the time constraints it will be to find and collect these many documents. If they are looking for proof of harm (which I agree with those that say it is irrelevant) they have just caused it with this outrageous demand.
…The other thing that makes me furious, is that this is also a deep invasion of my husband’s privacy, as a lot of information I will have to provide is jointly held. He who was born untainted in Canada. I feel like I am betraying him. The irony is that the more we are harassed by the government, the more determined I am to keep fighting for our rights…
If anyone is looking for a weight loss diet, I can recommend being a plaintiff…”
Plaintiff Kazia says: “Although I am disappointed with this outcome, I am hopeful that these next steps, however uncomfortable, will get us even closer to ultimately achieving a positive resolution in our favour. We will stand up for what is right.”
The documents that now must be turned over are:
Every document that reveals the nature and content of the following financial vehicles that the plaintiffs currently hold, or held after January 1, 2014 (domestically or otherwise):
o All bank accounts
o All mutual funds
o All brokerage and investment accounts, and
o All insurance accounts or plans that have cash value, such as life insurance contracts or annuities (including but not limited to whole and/or universal life coverage, etc.)
– With respect to the 2014 and 2015 taxation years:
o Filed T1 tax returns
o T2 tax returns in respect of any businesses that the plaintiffs own or control, and
o Any related documentation, slips or schedules
The Court also requested more “particulars” on the Claim.
These include:
Each type of physical harm the Plaintiffs allege as been suffered; or will for certain be suffered if the impugned provisions remain operational by any one of them or by anyone else, as a result of the impugned provisions;
All mental or psychological harm the Plaintiffs allege has been suffered; or will for certain be suffered if the impugned provisions remain operational; by any one of them or by anyone else, as a result of the impugned provisions;
All financial harm, loss, or damage that the Plaintiffs allege has been incurred; or will for certain be incurred; by any one of them or by anyone else, as a result of the impugned provisions.
In addition, Court ordered Plaintiffs to pay $2500 in costs for the motion.
Plaintiffs do not have to pay these costs if we ultimately win the court challenge; however this order emphasizes again the personal financial risks Plaintiffs have undertaken on behalf of Canada and Canadians.
The Court has given Plaintiffs 60 days to provide the information and ordered that Government complete examinations for discovery within 45 days of the latter.
Oh, Canada!
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/privy-council-prime-minister-s-office-secrecy-gag-security-information-wark-1.4139309
Where is our issue in this government secrecy?
What most concerns me here is the demand that the plaintiffs demonstrate physical, psychological, or financial harm, or future certain harm. It appears to me that the intent is to turn the issue from loss of privacy, to the harm done by loss of privacy.
However privacy is a first order right, which we value for itself. It is not a second order right, important only for preventing certain kinds of other harms, physical, psychological, or financial.
@NEC
It might have more to do with the loss of access to the dollar.
Thanks for the support, all. I find this very distressing on many levels,not the least of which is how difficult, within the time constraints it will be to find and collect these many documents. If they are looking for proof of harm ( which I agree with those that say it is irrelevant) they have just caused it with this outrageous demand.
The other thing that makes me furious, is that this is also a deep invasion of my husband’s privacy, as a lot of information I will have to provide is jointly held. He who was born untainted in Canada. I feel like I am betraying him.
The irony is that the more we are harassed by the government, the more determined I am to keep fighting for our rights.
Two asides: If anyone is looking for a weight loss diet, I can recommend being a plaintiff.
Barclay isn’t happy either. His vet and grooming bills have to be accounted for 🙂
@NEC
Because the banks want this. EVERY bank wants this. Even the Fed Reserve. Especially the Fed Reserve. Especially the IBS. Especially the world banking cartel. Their ultimate aim is the information that will enable them to take every nickel and dime they do not already have under their thumb.
The world debt is over 500 TRILLION dollars. There is not enough money on the entire planet to pull them out of the hole they have dug themselves in their insane aim to own everything.
Back in 2014 Jim Flaherty said, innocently, that they “were adhering to OECD guidelines” in their aim to legalize foreign theft of Canadians through the IGA.
And what did the OECD bosses think of this? ” We are going to ensure that every individual , company, small and large on the planet will be forced to send us all their financial information. We will start with a 15% tax on everything and move upward from that” ( And laughed about how powerful this will be for them)
@NorthernShrike,
Thanks for making that point so concisely. It’s what I’ve been feeling in my mind (but not nearly as articulately as you’ve put it) and it’s been bugging me big time since yesterday. It is such an important point, the crux of the matter – and the decision seems to ignore it and reads like what I’d expect in a financial dispute or where someone were claiming compensation for damages, quite disturbing.
@Canadian Ginny:
Oh, my dear, how I sympathize with you! In the same boat regarding Canadian husband. I know and feel every single emotion you have gone through and are going through. I have since lost my husband and the pain of that will never subside.
I cannot express in words descriptive enough how much I admire you and how grateful I am that you have chosen to stand in the breach, for you stand for us all.
As illustrated by @ Calgary411, privacy is utmost to the government itself, but not for those who employ the government. Our own money they use to beat us into submission. And yet, that submission is not ever going to be forthcoming. NOT EVER. This particular government needs to fall for the sheer number of lies since the election they have told to Canada, particularly those they promised they would defend IF they were elected ( not satisfied to trust the Canadian people to believe them, they employed rather interesting tactics to ensure they were elected and they knew who to turn to make sure their majority was such that they had a free hand for four years)
As soon as they were elected they were very quick to completely betray every promise they made to Canadians.
This order by the Court is the most outrageous example of what the government has in mind and what they intend. My fury on hearing it was such that I could have broken glass for miles around if it had been voiced!
Ginny, if I could reach through this screen and embrace you , stand beside you , I certainly would do so.
I think of you, and all of our plaintiffs, every single day. My hopes and wishes and support and especially my prayers, are with you all.
And if there is more money needed, we stand ready there too.
God Bless you and yours Ginny. Hugs to Barclay!! 🙂
Ginny….too bad you were not a lumber yard as they have better protection;
““Canada is standing up to the U.S., Canada is standing up for Canadians.”
Well George, I have been called a plank before.
@Ginny…ditto the compasion from FuriousAC.
I do wish for the day when I can share a fish and chip meal at Sir Cedrics with you and yours including Barclay as a thank you.
Cheers, George
Re our lawsuit and privacy, one of our litigation Claims is:
@Stephen Kish:
What infuriates me is that the Judge’s order is EXACTLY contrary to those Charter provisions.
And once forced to provide that information? AND pay court costs??
Are they intending to rule the lawsuit moot?
Is it not emotional cruelty when one must submit to being raped in order to prove they were being raped in the first place? Maybe the judge thinks the plaintiffs asked for it.
@ Bubblebustin:
I think the Judge is NOT thinking at all!! Certainly not about preserving the privacy and rights of Canadians!!
When a government demands total transparency of its citizens it is a dictatorship. When citizens demand total transparency of their government it is democracy. (I think that’s how it goes.) It has to be obvious what system is now becoming entrenched in Canada.
I’ve been stewing about this for almost a whole day now and I keep thinking what a low-down, dirty tactic the government is using here. It has gone beyond mere stalling which they have proven themselves to be experts at doing. It’s about knowing full well that privacy is vital to our plaintiffs and like a torturer pounding on the same bruised and abrased spot to maximize the discomfort in order to gain complete submission of his victim, they are poking deeper and deeper into our plaintiffs’ reserves of privacy in an attempt to break their will. I know my will would have been broken by now so words can’t express my gratitude that Gwen, Ginny and Kazia are the strong-willed, valiant, honourable women they have proven themselves to be, over and over again. I’m with Furious AC in extending to them my own virtual hug … and yes it includes Barclay too. He is on full duty to keep Ginny supplied with soothing tail wags, face licks and adoring gazes.
— Interesting that President Trump just complained a few minutes ago in an address at the White House that the Paris Climate Agreement is a foreign “intrusion on United States sovereignty” which “weakens our sovereignty”. The deal is a “massive redistribution of United States wealth to other countries” and “keeps our magnificent country tied up and bound down by this agreement.”
Foreign intrusion… Redistribution of locally made wealth to a [more powerful] foreign country…
— Our three plaintiffs have their own sovereignty complaint about foreign intrusion— that Canada gave away its sovereignty to the United States — and they plead in their Claim that:
A “particular” harm?
FATCA will collapse if Trump’s behaviour expedites the dollar’s loss of reserve currency status.
Trump is pushing Russia and China closer together and they would like to see nothing more than the back of the US dollar.
Does anyone really believe the world is going to bow to Trump? It’s more likely they’ll pay lip service while realigning their own affairs so ‘America First,’ doesn’t affect them negatively.
Make no mistake all this is a historic shift that’s ripping up the old post-WWII world order.
If Saudi starts accepting RMB or Euros for oil, the jig is up for the US dollar.
@StephenKish
Sounds to me like Trump will NEVER give up FATCA nor CBT for the revenue it brings in.
“When the United States threatens with the 30% witholding tax why dont Cdn banks threaten to withold 35% on any Foreign Bank if they withold on them.”
@Polly :
President Trump just fulfilled another Campaign Promise by taking the US out of the Paris Climate Accord. As well he should. Canada does not belong there either. Without US money, the PCA is not going to fly and everybody knows it.
As well he promised to end FATCA and it is to be included in the Tax Reform Package that is being blocked and held up by Republican leadership in Congress.
The promise in the Republican Platform is being fulfilled as fast as those who made the promise can muster. I refer you to the hearing held by Congressman Mark Meadows and detailed here.
It is a slow process no doubt but their promise has been made and we expect them to keep it.
The testimonies of Bopp , et al were powerful and impressive. ( Notwithstanding that idiot dem on the panel and that even bigger idiot Bean) They intend to end it. ( I know, when the nail is in YOUR OWN HAND it cannot be removed fast enough!!)
“Two asides: If anyone is looking for a weight loss diet, I can recommend being a plaintiff.”
I can’t. Stress makes me eat.
“I think the Judge is NOT thinking at all!!”
Yes he is. As an old saying goes, figures don’t lie but lawyers figure.
Seems like the government is looking underneath your skirts to see if you have some dark financial secrets to hide .
Stand naked if you must ,and it must be very difficult, but a just cause is a just cause,
You have total support here.
Always wondered on judge selections,if the plaintiff’s lawyers could surmise the chances based on knowing the judge’s political i-o-u s
and background.
Feel usually the cards are stacked in the gouvernments favour,to put it mildly.
I agree that the first part of the motion–the ask to provide even more financial documents–is overkill on the government’s part especially if financial data was already provided earlier.
However I am much more intrigued by the second part of the motion–to provide more info on the harms suffered. It seems this is finally–after nearly three years–getting to the heart of what this lawsuit is all about. Since people on Brock have been documenting the harms caused by FATCA for years now, I don’t expect the plaintiffs to have any difficulty at all documenting the harms they’ve suffered–of course in providing this documentation they will be assisted by Arvay and team as well as Ginny’s own legal knowledge. The response the plaintiffs provide to this part of the motion can only strengthen their case however frivolous the government’s ask in the other part of the motion was.
@ Dash
Until they try to interrupt and stop me, I will tell them that part of the harm I am suffering is knowing and hearing from many of you and what you have experienced. That would really not be a stretch in any way. And I wouldn’t limit it to just Canadians if I get that chance. I have been deeply affected by the accounts so many have shared and often, as awful as they are, they keep me motivated to take this as far as I am able.