Are you a Canadian citizen and resident and have you renounced U.S. citizenship and have paid or are subject to the U.S. Exit Tax (IRS 877A)? [No, I do not mean the $2350 fee.]
If so, we ask you to consider being a Witness in our Canadian FATCA IGA lawsuit.
You might have renounced U.S, citizenship but own, for example, a now valuable house (i.e., Canadian-made IRS asset eagerly waiting to be confiscated) in Toronto/Vancouver/London etc. and have (because interest rates are now very low) a very valuable IRS-asset-company pension (IRS wants percentage of cashed out total value of your CANADIAN pension)— and had/have to pay a U.S. exit tax.
From the Toronto Star: “In a sign that Toronto’s real estate market is off to a hot start this year, a home on Palmerston Ave. north of Bloor St. near Bathurst St., has sold for 62 per cent more than the sellers paid two years ago. The three-bedroom semi went for $1.375 million on Tuesday. In December 2014, it sold for a mere $851,750 — $523,250 less.
— The value in U.S. dollars of your CANADIAN house, plus CANADIAN company pension, plus a few CANADIAN investments, might put you into “covered” territory where you, a CANADIAN, will be be punished for your success.
Information on the exit tax and examples of the exit tax can be found at the citizenshipsolutions.ca site.
We are specifically seeking as a possible Witness in our Canadian FATCA IGA lawsuit a person who:
— Has renounced and has paid an exit tax (the ideal witness);
— Has renounced and will be subject to exit tax;
— Is intending to renounce and know that they will have to pay exit tax; and
— Cannot afford to renounce because they have no way of paying the exit tax
If interested, and perhaps a little bit feisty like our Plaintiffs and Witnesses, email me at: Stephen.Kish.Chair@adcs-adsc.ca Your name and situation will be made public in a submission to the Federal Court of Canada.
Seeking as Witness in Canadian lawsuit a person who has paid U.S. Exit Tax.
Doesn’t this seem a little like the Castro Brothers holding prisoners asking somebody to pay a ransom in order to let the prisoner leave Cuba.
This is the shining light on the hill—hell anyone who wants to live abroad and come and go as they please should be allowed to do so unmolested by government. These dictator like presidents and department heads who take a scant bill passed by congress and fill it in to fit their inflated sense of power, need to be lynched or put into prison for holding someone against their will. Yes, you can use economics to imprison someone.
I have relatives who will some day soon face these choices and I pray they won’t renounce, but i understand why they might unless the TRUMP GOVERNMENT takes notice and drives a wooden stake into the monster.
Are you planning to try and use the non-discrimination clause int he tax treaty to attack the exit tax?
I don’t mean to sound negative, but anyone falling under categories two, three or four would be foolish to identify themselves, unless of course they were even more foolish and actually felt obliged to pay an exit tax. For a Canadian citizen and resident owning a valuable piece of real estate, writing the US a cheque (for either the exit tax after renunciation or capital gains after a sale) is a voluntary act, and a particularly stupid one if the amount is significant.
Yet another case where staying off the radar and remaining non-compliant is probably the better course of action.
Nononymous: I believe Stephen is looking for someone in one of these categories whose anger and drive to overturn this injustice exceed his fear, and whose domestic circumstances allow her to come forward.
Not that it applies to me (I’m a Canadian and US citizen at birth) but is there an option for “Has or will renounce with no intention of paying the exit tax”?
@Nononymous
Staying off the radar is not something one has complete control over, but you can certainly stack the odds.
Indeed, there are no guarantees one can successfully stay off the radar, but until such time as the rules change and collection is possible, sending money to the US government is purely voluntary.
If someone out there can afford to spend the money on something they wish to oppose, they’ll make a great witness. But that might be a difficult person to find.
Someone who has renounced, or intends to, but has no intention of becoming tax compliant, and who by back-of-the-envelope calculations would owe exit tax – that might be feasible. Sadly I don’t think I’d qualify.
What a dilemma. The injustice of extra-territorial US citizenship taxation consequences for those who are now criminalized and labelled by the US (and our own countries) *tax evaders* if we do not come forward and voluntarily hand over a significant portion of our families’ savings or capital gains, as we are deemed by the US a US citizen subject to consequences those of no other nationalities are. Otherwise we are now *willful* and ???perhaps??? Canadian courts not able to take into account the US CBT Exit Tax that is a real and most significant consequence as no one subject to this can easily come forward as a Witness to what is happening to Canadians (who are not really deemed by Canada as Canadian citizens or permanent residents who are *a Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian* because they are seen as US citizens who happen to abide in Canada. Criminalized and having to look over shoulders for the rest of our days if we do not voluntarily come forward for our punishment for somehow being deemed US citizens — and especially accidentally.
My renunciation did not subject me to the US Exit Tax, just subject to the cost of never-ending tax and reporting compliance for a US-deemed US citizen as a citizen in Canada (as will my son who cannot renounce and would be entrapped into that complex and costly yearly compliance) if I did not have a Certificate of Loss of Nationality in my possession to show to my local Canadian *foreign financial institution*. I figure mine is a case of *there but for the grace of God go I*.
Bubblebustin,
Yes…but our litigators make the determination as to the person who has the best Witness characteristics for the lawsuit. I recall (I think) previously asking for an “exit tax” witness and now repeat that request. I hope that at least a few will consider volunteering.
Nononymous and Muzzled,
It takes a very special Canadian who is willing to be a Plaintiff or Witness in our lawsuit.
@Nonanonymous
It’s fairly obvious that the only potential witnesses on the Exit Tax issue are those who have already entered the U.S. tax system.
The great irony of the lawsuit is that the ones who stand to benefit the most from this lawsuit are the ones who are inclined to do the least to support it.
> The great irony of the lawsuit is that the ones who stand to benefit the most from this lawsuit are the ones who are inclined to do the least to support it.
This is true. I myself am on the fence as regards the lawsuit. It’s possible that defeating the IGA would actually leave us all worse off under current FATCA rules.
As a Canadian citizen and resident, with only a US birthplace and no financial ties to the US, staying non-compliant is tremendously easy. US tax policy has zero negative impact on my life, with the possible exception of my spending too much time following the story, and having once had to lie to a financial institution (though as all my accounts were RRSP there should never have been FATCA reporting).
Were I living in Europe my situation might be different, but here in Canada I currently feel no injustice. The US law is just silly, so I ignore it.
Love it! Well, at least you are honest about your lack of support. Hope you benefit anyway.
You better keep that “U.S. place of birth” a secret.
Is there no injustice in the Canadian government’s support of FATCA that forced you to lie to your financial institution?
@Dr. Kish, “It takes a very special Canadian who is willing to be a Plaintiff or Witness in our lawsuit.”
And you are indeed a very special person as well.
As I want to do something……can I send some £££ $$$ anywhere????
Hmmmm not feeling an injustice
The law IS silly BUT so many people have been scared to death and or become compliant at a risk. The OVDP-OVDI stories are horrifying. Not a judgement on anyone but I cannot feel it as anything BUT a huge injustice………
@Bubbles..”Is there no injustice in the Canadian government’s support of FATCA that forced you to lie to your financial institution?”
Again BINGO….you really hit a core argument when a man is forced to lie he is stripped of his very dignity. That dignity is far more precious than pieces of silver.
First, The commenter is saying: There can be no injustice if one does not personally feel injustice. This means that the only injustice that takes place is injustice that happen’s to oneself. There can never be an injustice to anybody else. No White person could have ever seen the enslavement of African Americans to be an injustice. Since the commenter did not enter OVDP, OVDP was not an injustice.
Second, the commenter is implying that the fact that he feels it is an injustice would without more make it an injustice.
@nononymous
I understand basically where you are coming from and what you are saying. Since I am non compliant, I am in that boat as well. I haven’t entered the tax system. If by being a plaintiff, I have outed myself, nothing has happened to me yet and I figure I have a huge bullseye on my back, along with my two co-plaintiffs. So either we are fearless or you must think we are fools.
I like to think we are dedicated to helping all those who are affected by the worst law the US has imposed on Non Homelanders. And obviously I also hold accountable the Canadian government for this unconstitutional alliance with Big Brother. And as a so called dual, I am not subject to the Exit tax but fully intend to fight for those who are.
I strongly encourage a much needed witness to come forward to help. The water is fine.
It actually didn’t bother me at all, having to lie to the bank. It was a simple pragmatic decision, a minor fudge, not unlike making an illegal u-turn after you’ve checked to see that no cops are nearby. No sleep was lost.
Don’t get me wrong, I’d be happy if this all went away, but currently it has no impact on my daily life. It’s worth keeping that in perspective.
I do worry that if the lawsuit takes down the IGA but FATCA remains in force then we might have bigger problems – banks reporting RRSPs and anything else previously exempt, for example.
One thing that I agree is very important, which is my justification for continuing to post in various fora, is public education. Do not panic. Do not attempt to comply without first considering the alternatives. Do not (necessarily) listen to lawyers and accountants. If you’re a Canadian citizen and resident with a US birthplace or parentage and no wish for ties with the US, then you have no reason to make yourself known to the US authorities, and under current conditions you will suffer no consequences for your failure to do so.
Oh but you are subject to the exit tax, CG, because you aren’t US tax compliant. You can’t enter Streamlined either, as your lack of compliance is clearly wilful at this point.
With or without a target on your back, you have potentially sacrificed more than anyone who’s under the radar who can plead ignorance at any point, that is unless that person has lied to their bank and is willing to accept the consequences of doing so should they get caught.
@Ginny
I do admire your willingness to expose yourself, don’t think it’s especially foolish (partly because other than harassment by snail mail I’m not sure what consequences it would have for you) yet still very brave. What I think is unequivocally foolish is coming into compliance at personal cost – paying an exit tax or capital gains – if one lives somewhere like Canada that doesn’t enforce collection and makes compliance effectively optional.
@Bubblebustin
I was never able to determine what the penalty for lying to the bank might be, other than the bank quietly terminating me as a customer. Not really in their interests to publicize the matter. I suppose if I were single-handedly responsible for a massive scandal and their being subject to massive US penalties then they might take a dim view of the matter, but that seems unlikely. (For what it’s worth, the broker I deal with knows that I’m a US citizen. My parents told him that at some point, and when asked I kept answering back that I saw no need to provide citizenship information if all I had were RRSP accounts not reportable under the IGA, which probably isn’t the typical response. In the end it was a wink-wink-nudge-nudge sort of deal where I simply told him that I was Canadian and failed to check the “US” box under citizenship on an updated personal information form and he didn’t object. I don’t think they particularly care, but for all I know they could have flagged me and I’m on a list somewhere.)
FATCA and the resulting IGAs have left many in a position that they feel they must live in hiding. This alone is a horrible injustice. The ADCS plaintiffs are living their lives in the open and that is their privilege. My primary reason for renouncing was to regain my freedom to live openly. I was not subject to the exit tax.
actually NOBODY is subject to the Exit Tax unless they relinquish/renounce.
@USCitizenAbroad
ok, I get #1 but not #2
Many have heard it from me before, but I always have wondered why anyone would cover for the Canadian government and reward their bank with their money (which banks highly profit from) by lying to keep their bank account when they can just put their money in a non-FATCA reporting financial institution.